Rock Chuck and Bits

[HighTechOkie]

I do understand the point about the bits, but as I've mentioned the pattern is the SAME now as it was then... so why did the bits break. Do you mean that the extra flex is allowing me to do a cut that the machine would normally not be able to do? And if so, how am I supposed to be able to know that? Yep when the bit breaks.. but then that is 25 + shipping, I make a change, but still I'm uncertain if it will work this time... put a new 25 bit in... ooops there it goes.... do yo get my point..... If these bits are not "ideal" somone needs to make an "Less than Ieal" but affordable training bit.

In the two months I've had the machine

1 broken and replaced machine (LHR fauly inspection out the door)
1 broken flex shaft (LHR not putting enough lube and my not checking it)
8 - 10 broken cutout
1 broken QC
1 Broken Carving Bit

Now, I will accept some fault but not all. And, well, this thing hurts, but it hurts good... but I am trying to find a way to keep it operational, get through my learning curve, and recoup my losses. Try explaining to a reluctant wife why, jus 24 hours after buying something, you have to buy it again... get the drift.

It works, I think the scroll saw idea is great, carbides are fine for the intricate, and necessary things, but somone please remember that the targt market for this piece of equipment is NOT men that have had years of CNC experience. But basic hobbiests, and small businesss men like myself that can't take weeks, months, or even years of losses hile we try to learn (all at the same time we can't get tech support).

And if someone says "Use the search feaure"I would add that that is a mes as well. If I get say and error 300 I should be able to go to the search and put in "error 300" to find the thread but can you ? No because the search feature requires 4 letters or numbers so you. The process is combursome all the way around.

These bits are plungeable, ment for wood, and fit in the chuck. The CW is not ment to use any other bits then the carving, cut out, and 13 other routing bits that come in their case... but do you use any others? If so, the CW was not designed for it, neither was the CW designed for the Rock, but hey it works right. THat my point in a nut shell.... sorry guys I just gotta call it as I see it..

I completely understand where you are coming from and agree that for a new machine that should be unacceptable from LHR's standpoint. Most if not all of those issues could easily be addressed prior to the machine leaving the factory through some simple inspection and packaging improvements. None of which changes your situation as of now, so we can only move forward and offer help and advice. I also feel there should be better training/documentation on machine care and maintenance. It has improved greatly over the past few months, but still believe there is considerable improvmnet to be made. I see several people having to learn from trial and error, repeating the same things others before them have already been through.

A dial indicator is what is used to measure the runout or wobble of a bit. Prices start at about $20 for a cheapo indicator and magnetic base from Harbor Freight. For our purposes, this works okay. The other thing is to try to wiggle the Y and Z trucks. Any movement other than in the direction of travel will cause problems.

Regarding the search function. if you put your search term in quotes like you typed it, you will get better results . Again, a documentation issue (with the forum software in this case).

Another good suggestion on doing cutouts is to have the machine do a 1/4" pass. Then using a band saw or jig saw rough cut the outline and clean up with a router and flush trim bit w/ bearing. This way you could use shorter/cheaper carbide 1/8" bit such as this from Lowes.

Rob

[HighTechOkie]

OK.. I agree with the experts BUT there has to be a solution for the constant breaking of bits! How about if LHR adds a feed rate reduction setting in the software/firmware! That would make this problem go away (for the most part!).

That is why they implemented the "Maximum Pass Depth" for cutouts. If you are still having problems, you have issues somewhere with your machine. There are plenty of things in life we have no control over. Since manual feed/speed rate has been requested for a couple years now and nothing delivered, I chose to take the path which I do have control over, and that is to make sure my machine is setup and running properly.

There are too many people who are able to successfully do cutouts for it to be a speed/feed rate problem. No need to spam the forum with your "speed reduction" request. Learn to maintain your machine and your results and life will be much better off.

Rob

[PCW]

Rob

I would have to disagree with you on not having a choice. I try to control most things in my life and not let people make my choices if it can be avoided.

This one is fairly simple to control. If someone is not happy with the CW machine or the software they have a option to put it up for sale and purchase a CNC machine if they find it to be a necessity.

I broke one bit so far and I have not broke another since. I simple use a outline with either a band-saw or scroll saw for these purposes as outlined by Dan-Woodman earlier.

I personally would not use a rotozip blade but there again that is my choice.

[SteveEJ]

That is why they implemented the "Maximum Pass Depth" for cutouts. If you are still having problems, you have issues somewhere with your machine. There are plenty of things in life we have no control over. Since manual feed/speed rate has been requested for a couple years now and nothing delivered, I chose to take the path which I do have control over, and that is to make sure my machine is setup and running properly.

There are too many people who are able to successfully do cutouts for it to be a speed/feed rate problem. No need to spam the forum with your "speed reduction" request. Learn to maintain your machine and your results and life will be much better off.

Rob

You SIR have NO idea how I clean my machine! Did you know that I have a dust blower and dust colection system? Did you know that even though I have what I already stated I stop the project and vacuum it out every 30 minutes (even though there is a minimum amount of dust) to vacuum it out?. Did you know that after each carve I clean out, wipe down every part of the machine? I didn't address you so what gave you the right to address me in that manner? I fully expect this to be deleted so I am keeping a copy just in case! Check your arrogance at the door or don't bother to show up to the party!

Good Day!

[rjustice]

Let me start by saying, I am not one to blame everything that goes wrong when trying to implement your use of this machine on "user error" or "lack of maintenence". (I do think that I was the one to coin the phrase "a clean machine is a happy machine", however, because i believe it, and train it) You have to of course keep that practical and in perspective too...
I am one of the guys that has ran CNC machines and trained others to run those machines that range from $100K to $750K for over 29 years now. My point in posting the info that i did was not to stir anything up, but to caution people, from my experience. This is how I train people at my company. I try to instill in them the experience that i have, through teaching them my personal experiences using words. Guess what... some people learn very well that way, and some do not. Some have to feel that severe cut across their hand, before they "hear" with their brain, not to pick up a cutter by the flutes with the tool holder mounted, because if it slips you can get cut!... Personally, I have developed enough common sense, whether taught or bread into me, to know to think about what the consequences could be for the actions i perform. When i was a young teenager wrenching on hot rod engines under the hood of a car, i will never forget Dad saying to me "what is going to happen to your knuckles when that wrench slips off?"... I instantly envisioned a picture of the bloody knuckles that i got the week before. Now, I spend that split second thinking about what could happen, because i know there is a high likelyhood that the darn wrench will probably slip off. I make sure that i push or pull the wrench away from what would hurt me if and when it does slip.
All I am saying to the group is that I have seen HSS tools whip out. The cheaper they are, the softer they are, and the more likely to bend than break. I am trying to save people the headache of replacing half of the insides of thier machines if this happens to them. In my experience, the risk is probably much higher than you think, and is not worth the reward.
I hope that everyone understands that i am not being critical of anyone experimenting, and trying new things, only letting you know what i have seen. I am not a person that makes crap up because it sounds good. You will know that if i take the time to write about something like this it is for a good reason. I want everyone to have the best experience with their machines as possible.
I truly believe that what makes this forum so great is that we not only ban together to figure out problems after they happen, but also share our failures and experience to help prevent someone else from having to experience it. Personally i think we have made enormouse strides, and are gaining on it every day from the mechanical side. I hope that we contiunue to see improvement efforts on the software/firmware side. We need to have the same constructive information flowing to those that are working on this area.
I would be willing to bet that most of you can remember seeing the commercial and thinking about the potential of what this machine could do for you personally, and how there wasnt anything on the market that could get you to the point of doing this type of work at near this price point. I feel stronger today about potential, than i did a year ago. It is up to the users group (aka Forum) to keep plugging away at voicing concerns, and giving advice. Helping not only each other, but LHR as well. We will only get a better experience with our personal machines for it in the long run!

That is all i was trying to do....

Sorry for the long post....

Happy Carving!

Ron

[robbrigg2]

Rob

I would have to disagree with you on not having a choice. I try to control most things in my life and not let people make my choices if it can be avoided.

This one is fairly simple to control. If someone is not happy with the CW machine or the software they have a option to put it up for sale and purchase a CNC machine if they find it to be a necessity.

I broke one bit so far and I have not broke another since. I simple use a outline with either a band-saw or scroll saw for these purposes as outlined by Dan-Woodman earlier.

I personally would not use a rotozip blade but there again that is my choice.

Exactly, choice is the correct term. But let me point out that if you choose to use your band saw, scroll saw, or any other saw instead of your machine it is a choice. I Personally bought this machine BECAUSE it said id did it all... and it does not.

With bits wiping out I assum you are speaking of breakage? If so, that happened with the good blades as well as the bad. Ron it seems to me that you stated you tried the ZIp bits as well EVEN WITH Your years of exprience. Why? Shouldn't you have already known it was futile since the bit was not carbide? But you tried, and I assume you decided it wasn't for you. All I did was tell people that they had a CHOICE to try the bit. 10 cabinets in 2 weeks and not on of them broke. Your bit broke after 1 day ON THE SAME PATTERN. So lets let them at least know that, and make an informed decisson about what to use.

The people sitting out there passing their judgement on the "Stupididy" of the newb have no idea what level of design we are talking about. Somehow they think that perhaps they are doing far more difficult things with their machines than am I and with better results.... bah... they have no idea! I've tried both bits.... the zip works period.... until you've given it a shot your speaking out of inexperience no matter how much time you've had on a huge machine... this is not a huge machine..... so I guess I chose to cut my hand.. but then again I don't make any money on bits.... I just think there is a vested interst in selling the high end bits.

[robbrigg2]

Please all, understand, I am not mad, but neither am I stupid and I don't like the implications some seem to be making. THere was probably alot of scepticism when the ROck first came out but it works and it's improved and cheapend our experience. THat's all I was trying to do for others was offer an improvement and cheapen the cost of their experience while maintaining their results.

[PCW]

robbrigg2,

My last comment was to Rob (HighTechOkie). I feel for you and hate it when someone gets accused of user error instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[SteveEJ]

Or not maintaining the cleanliness of their machine.. Pet pieve of mine! Almost anal about it. Being in the Aviation industry will instill proper maintenance in you else you will not last too long. I am still alive!

I was cutting out a 3/4" hole with the drill function when the bit broke. The drill cut movement speed was much faster than the cutout function. Yes there is a max depth cut per pass selection there as well but that only eliminates part of the side force on the bits. To allow a cut speed option would allow the best of all worlds and between the two of them would most likely eliminate breaking good cut bits. It would alloe the designer to account for different types of wood. The only potential drawback would be possible burning of wood if it goes too slow. A minimum speed could be set to eliminate or reduce this.

While we are thinking about it, how about the software remembering the settings or having these settings set and saved in the preferences. They would be good candidates for this.

[PCW]

Steve,

You are right a person can make a huge mistake by making assumptions.