Wooden ships on the CW

[BobHill]

Note: I moved these posts from the Designer wish-list thread. JTB

tbroeski, Although my parts are for model wooden ships, I use vector files all the time to make parts. Although my vector program of choice is CorelDraw (CDX4), I also use AutoCad 14, Xara Xtreme Pro, Adobe Illustrator (CS3), all you have to do is convert your native files into PNG's and then in Designer be sure you size things properly (easy to do if you are accurate with how you compose your parts for cutting) then use Pattern outline to cut them out. Now that you have the option to use a 1/16th cutting bit (new and great) with the CW, what's to want? If you can get a CNC router with the ability of the CarveWright and anywhere near the CW price, then go for it, but even a laser cutter is at least 5 to ten times the price of the CW. Plus, for my purposes, neither the CNC router nor especially the CNC laser can carve the fancy stern parts for my ships like the CarveWright can.
Bob Hill

[mtylerfl]

Hi Bob,

In reading your post it reminded me that you are building model ships. Seems like I saw a few photos (a year or so ago) of one of your models in progress.

I would love to see more pics of your various models - particularly the ones you used the CarveWright for some of the components. If you have some photos available, would you post some more in the Gallery please?

[whr1900]

Hi Bob

As usual I am behind the curve I am interested in how to do the model ships especially if there is a plan for a three mass scooner

William

[BobHill]

William, I have to ask, so please don't take offense, but how experienced are you at scalling, computer vector drawing with any of the programs I've listed previously, as well as model building?

There are other sources (do a Google) and I, of course, have some, but if you'd care to take a look at some available plans you can download, here is a good one, and although it's a commercial business owned and operated by a friend of mine (Dave and Ev Stevens), it's a great source of plans, kits, and the right kind of milled or unmilled model lumber: www.dlumberyard.com . Particularly what might be of interest to you are the plans from Harold Hahn, like HMS Alfred or even the more sophisticated Continental Frigate, the Confederacy.

Dave allows you to download the plans, and then it's up to you to scale and construct, or you can purchase full sized plans with or without the kits and instructions to build them. The PDF files are over the limit, so you'll have to download them directly from Dave's site.

Another source for plans, but for sale only, would be from www.bluejacketinc.com , owned by Jeff and Suzi Marger, who are also friends of mine. They have many kits (fantastic kits, bye the way), but also have plans for many of them that you can purchase as well. Many of the BlueJacket kits are solid hulls, so if one is interested in either doing half hulls, or sandwich stacked shaped hull sections on the CarveWright, this would allow you to really getting into such as design, as the plans include templates for the shape that you can create the sections with.

BEWARE, however, for not only is the CarveWright very addictive, so is the hobby of model ship building, and contrary to what one might think, it is far from one that's not very time consuming. It takes YEARS to complete many of the models you'll see or see kits of. But check out the fancy stern work that would be great to do on the CarveWright for models such as the CONFEDERACY.
Bob Hill

[tbroeski]

tbroeski, Although my parts are for model wooden ships, I use vector files all the time to make parts. Although my vector program of choice is CorelDraw (CDX4), I also use AutoCad 14, Xara Xtreme Pro, Adobe Illustrator (CS3), all you have to do is convert your native files into PNG's and then in Designer be sure you size things properly (easy to do if you are accurate with how you compose your parts for cutting) then use Pattern outline to cut them out.
Bob Hill

Bob
Can you take a dxf file and convert it accurately? If I sent you a file (my email is tjb@adesigner.com) could you do a video or picture series explaining the process? When I bring the files in from Corel or Adobe, they end up very ragged and pattern outline is not very accurate for airfoils.

[BobHill]

tbroeski, If you mean, Can I convert a dxf file, which I assume is already vectorized, to either a CDR (CorelDraw) or AI (Illustrator) format, then, yes, of course I can. If you are asking if I can vectorize a raster image for use to render it for cutting, then yes again, I can do that. If you mean that you are having trouble with tracing the outline of a raster image into vector, then yes again I can.

But I'm curious why your vector lines are "ragged". Did you use bezier arc's to the raster images and then match the positions of ribs, with the plains perhaps from the original plans? If positioned correctly, the ribs, for instance, should follow a straight line from root to tip and that's done by having smooth bezier arc's. The trick is to not just make each rib one by one, but as you go position them so you can also reference them as you build them on the computer. This might sound more questionable than it actually is to do, but that's why I ask how familiar you are with both scaling, constructing, and computerizing plans and then converting raster images (which are not always true to the actual parts) to true vector parts.

Or, what I seemed to leave out for a question, is it a problem for you to put the completed vector image into Designer in order to carve? If that's true, then yes again, I can walk you through that, but remember that you have to re-rasterize the vector into a PNG format, and then use Designers Outlien Path, and the best way to do that is to make your piece BLACK in your vector to raster image, and remember that your path in vector is always THE MIDDLE of any line width, and so is it when you draw a path in Designer. Thus the width of your bit has to be accounted for when making the part size in Designer. But in any case, that SHOULD NOT make a ragged cut if the line is not ragged to begin with. But if you are trying to manually make the points to arc in Designer, good luck. I'd rather use the Outline Pattern, and then manually correct to the raster image. Much easier to do, as Designer's bezier tools are a lot different than those you'll find in either CorelDraw and Illustrator. They are closer to what you'll find in AutoCad, but even different from that. I believe it was Chris, from LHR (forgive me if it wasn't one of the Chris's) that told me what CAD program they patterned Designer from, but I'm having a Senior moment in remembering which it was.

If you'd like to send me a section to work on, I can see what you might be taliking about. Yes I can do video (I'm a computer graphics tech by experience), and write up or show a screen practicum, but I've got a feeling that maybe this might be too large a project to commit to, unless you only need a brief explanation on how I'd do it.

I'm more than willing to give you a hand, however, if I'm not commiting too much time (which I sometimes seem to do).

Bob Hill
bobhill@ij.net
Tampa, Florida

[rstudley]

Thank you, Bob Hill, for explaining how to import vector files into Designer as PNG files using Import Image (in my case exported out of Adobe Illustrator). I was unaware that applying OUTLINE PATTERNS from the tool pull-down menu would create those paths, allowing bit and depth to be assigned. I thought they had to be carved like a photo. Thanks!

[BobHill]

rstudley, I used to do some work for Adobe and particularly in the use of Illustrator, so although I really prefer CorelDraw for this type of thing (it has more tools and less menus), but equally they will do the job (as will the Brit's Xara Xtreme), All three vector programs will create exact measurements to the .000 th's (even though they only show .oo). And, don't forget that Designer will do the same accuracy. Most of us would rather compose directly in either CorelDraw or Illustrator for the CW, and perhaps someday we'll be able to without having to convert it to raster and back to vector in Designer (Chris does have that on his "sometime" agenda, he says).

Since most of us want our parts to be cut out ACCURATELY without having to compensate for any under/over cutting, you do have to consider that the path will follow the outline of your raster (PNG) image, and since the vector path for both the vector program and Designher is a midline position for the point width you give to the visible path line, thus, you need to allow for the radius (not diameter) of the cutting bit to position the proper cut in Designer. It's also a BIG help for our type of parts to fill the inside of the part with BLACK, as this transfers best into raster and when you complete the image (raise or lower) you'll get the proper shape and sized image for Designer.

As I mentioned before, the new 1/16th bit is fantastic also for our work, as first there is less wood waste, and the depth of our cuts is far less than normally needed for "real" woodcrafters. I have both a Performax thickness sander for the big stuff, and a Brynes Model thickness sander for the fine detail thickness planks that I use to make my rib parts, etc.

If you have carvings as well as cutouts, then although it's more touchy in transfering to Designer to get a good path to follow, I inverse the fill, thus the carving detail is maintained within the path and yet the path is highly defined for Outline Path useage. Again taking into consideration the width of the cutting bit.

I normally use the standard plank size that most modelers use (3"x24" with thickness' from 1/32 to 1/4 and then when necessary other sizes of course) and then make a jig so as much of the wood is available for cutting/carving as possible all the while considering how the grain will be on the finished part.

Remember that the carving tip is 1/16" and since the machine doesn't know what bit you use for what purpose, and the depths of some cuts is very shallow, I suppose you could use that for Outline Path cutting, but your size and cut bevel will not be as accurate and would need some edge sanding. I'd recommend using the new 1/16" straight cutting bit. It's worth every bit of the price and since you airplane people usually only use balsa or basswood, that bit should last a very long time. (and the good guys at LHR have had some experience at working with this in the early days).

Go for it.

Bob Hill

[jlitz]

While Online Pattern generally works well, it should be noted the conversion is not problem free. Small details can be lost and the desired shape will not always be maintained, see http://forum.carvewright.com//showpost.php?p=35199.

[BobHill]

Jlitz, which is why you need to be sure that your measurements of the outline path are as you have created them in vector. Any error is pretty easy to correct with your Designer vector tools AND you also have the advantage of each leg between point s is shown in Designer as well as it's arc. If you are scaling and needing to pay attentiion to detail, NOTHING comes easy, but that's also true if you are manually doing it. Designer works very well, just not as easy as CorelDraw or Illustrtor for those whose experience is mainly in those formats.
Bob Hill