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Thread: Cut motor replaced with a brushless motor

  1. Default Cut motor replaced with a brushless motor

    Has anyone changed cut motor to a brushless motor any info would would be great

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intransittwo View Post
    Has anyone changed cut motor to a brushless motor any info would would be great
    Not yet... But I am looking into using a Dewalt Brushless Router with the slap on battery eliminator 120 volt plug. I see on some CNC Pages some guy is already playing with the project and used a 15 amp 20 volt power supply but burned out the power supply. He was getting a 20 amp power supply.

    I also looking at using a 1.5 KW Air Cooled Spindle too... Both likely mounted on the back of the machine facing the same way as the cut motor. More will come about this on the Facebook Page soon. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1041...f=group_header
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 120 to Bat.jpg  
    Last edited by Digitalwoodshop; 12-11-2019 at 10:15 AM.
    Favorite Saying.... "It's ALL About the Brass Roller"..... And "Use MASKING TAPE" for board skipping in the X or breaking bits.

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    You're gonna make me end up joining Facebook yet, ain't you?.......LOL

    I haven't put more than 20 seconds of thought into this yet, so I probably shouldn't even open my mouth until I look into it more, but.................

    How does the motor controller function on these, what controls the spindle speed?
    There must some communication between the (for lack of a better term) PLC and the motor drive?
    And how would that interface with a different spindle motor?

    I'll probably regret asking after I go out to the shop and actually look at mine...................

    Justin Pierce, aka spalted
    *Pattern Editor (Probe) * Centerline * Dxf Import * STL Importer * Version 3 Standalone * Advanced 3D * Advanced 2D * Conforming Vectors * Rotary *C Machine *Rock Chuck

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    Quote Originally Posted by spalted View Post
    You're gonna make me end up joining Facebook yet, ain't you?.......LOL

    I haven't put more than 20 seconds of thought into this yet, so I probably shouldn't even open my mouth until I look into it more, but.................

    How does the motor controller function on these, what controls the spindle speed?
    There must some communication between the (for lack of a better term) PLC and the motor drive?
    And how would that interface with a different spindle motor?

    I'll probably regret asking after I go out to the shop and actually look at mine...................
    That is a very good question....

    I do know that to some extent the X Termination Board does control the speed of the Cut Motor... Never really understood how or why... We all know that after you get a CCM or Check Cut Motor error that the machine then operates in full speed mode. Do I see any bit burning in full speed mode? No...

    I know if you disconnect the Cut Motor Speed Sensor that you will get a CCM.

    I know if you make a Spindle Setup and don't include the Magnet and Sensor that the machine is going to give you a CCM.

    The magic in the Speed control happens on the X Termination board... Don't understand what all the components do... One of the Op Amps could be involved in this speed thing... The Q1 is the actual Cut Motor Switch.

    My intent is to un plug the cut motor. Wire a standard home 120 volt power receptacle to the back of the machine. One plug will be for a relay that turns on my Spindle or Router. The other operates a relay that operates my dust collector. LHR has warned me to NOT replace the cut motor with a Relay but has never expanded on why I should not. I expect to get a CCM Error. Press Enter and be done with it... By operating a relay from the Cut Motor Signal it will not draw more current so there is little chance of burning out the Q1 on the X Termination Board. I would NEVER power a Router from the Q1 as I would expect the extra Current would burn out the Q1... It must be done with a 120 volt AC Coil RELAY.

    The only hold up is making the Router BIT that has the Square Drive HOLE in the END...

    The RIGHT Side Clear cover Cut Motor SAFETY SWITCH WILL be used in my circuit to the Power Outlet.... So it won't be any LESS Safe...

    AL
    Last edited by Digitalwoodshop; 12-13-2019 at 10:48 PM.
    Favorite Saying.... "It's ALL About the Brass Roller"..... And "Use MASKING TAPE" for board skipping in the X or breaking bits.

    Follow ME on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Accoun...50019051727074

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalwoodshop View Post
    That is a very good question....

    I do know that to some extent the X Termination Board does control the speed of the Cut Motor... Never really understood how or why... We all know that after you get a CCM or Check Cut Motor error that the machine then operates in full speed mode. Do I see any bit burning in full speed mode? No...

    I know if you disconnect the Cut Motor Speed Sensor that you will get a CCM.

    I know if you make a Spindle Setup and don't include the Magnet and Sensor that the machine is going to give you a CCM.

    The magic in the Speed control happens on the X Termination board... Don't understand what all the components do... One of the Op Amps could be involved in this speed thing... The Q1 is the actual Cut Motor Switch.

    My intent is to un plug the cut motor. Wire a standard home 120 volt power receptacle to the back of the machine. One plug will be for a relay that turns on my Spindle or Router. The other operates a relay that operates my dust collector. LHR has warned me to NOT replace the cut motor with a Relay but has never expanded on why I should not. I expect to get a CCM Error. Press Enter and be done with it... By operating a relay from the Cut Motor Signal it will not draw more current so there is little chance of burning out the Q1 on the X Termination Board. I would NEVER power a Router from the Q1 as I would expect the extra Current would burn out the Q1... It must be done with a 120 volt AC Coil RELAY.

    The only hold up is making the Router BIT that has the Square Drive HOLE in the END...

    The RIGHT Side Clear cover Cut Motor SAFETY SWITCH WILL be used in my circuit to the Power Outlet.... So it won't be any LESS Safe...

    AL

    Very interesting, thanks!

    What I find curious too is that "speed sensor" behaviour.
    What I've seen on typical industrial spindle motor sensors is what we always called a "speed sensor" in reality is more of a revolution sensor.
    They are a prox switch that reads off a disc that is mounted on the spindle motor shaft, there is a a timer line in the logic and if the PLC doesn't receive an output from the prox switch within the programed timeframe it will trigger a spindle error of some sort. No real speed data is output. More of an, is it spinning? Yes/No. Typically you can set a min/max rpm in a tool file for example, but as far as I know that is basically only a drive parameter, it's not actually measured, monitored and confirmed.
    I've never fully disassembled a spindle unit though, we send them out to be rebuilt. But when I know they are going to tear them down I'll partially disassemble them just to take a peak and see how they function or gauge how well our drawbar Preventative Maintenance is doing.

    It seems strange that default of a Carvewright Cut Motor Error would be to just allow the spindle to run at full RPM.
    Do you think it's an actual RPM reading being collected?

    The reality is it doesn't really matter, it's just interesting to me.....LOL

    Justin Pierce, aka spalted
    *Pattern Editor (Probe) * Centerline * Dxf Import * STL Importer * Version 3 Standalone * Advanced 3D * Advanced 2D * Conforming Vectors * Rotary *C Machine *Rock Chuck

  6. Default

    Like your idea i heard Thur the grape vine that carvewright was working on a brushless cut motor few months ago still tired of brushes and noise

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    Quote Originally Posted by spalted View Post
    Very interesting, thanks!

    What I find curious too is that "speed sensor" behaviour.
    What I've seen on typical industrial spindle motor sensors is what we always called a "speed sensor" in reality is more of a revolution sensor.
    They are a prox switch that reads off a disc that is mounted on the spindle motor shaft, there is a a timer line in the logic and if the PLC doesn't receive an output from the prox switch within the programed timeframe it will trigger a spindle error of some sort. No real speed data is output. More of an, is it spinning? Yes/No. Typically you can set a min/max rpm in a tool file for example, but as far as I know that is basically only a drive parameter, it's not actually measured, monitored and confirmed.
    I've never fully disassembled a spindle unit though, we send them out to be rebuilt. But when I know they are going to tear them down I'll partially disassemble them just to take a peak and see how they function or gauge how well our drawbar Preventative Maintenance is doing.

    It seems strange that default of a Carvewright Cut Motor Error would be to just allow the spindle to run at full RPM.
    Do you think it's an actual RPM reading being collected?

    The reality is it doesn't really matter, it's just interesting to me.....LOL
    On a very early "A" I saw a Magnet inside the Spindle and a Circuit board on the back that picked up the motion. So it picked up speed at the motor and at the spindle... That spindle sensor ended when the 18 pin FFC Cable was too fragile.... They went to the 14 pin with ticker conductors.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC06291_WEB.jpg   DSC06294.JPG   DSC08548_WEB.jpg  
    Favorite Saying.... "It's ALL About the Brass Roller"..... And "Use MASKING TAPE" for board skipping in the X or breaking bits.

    Follow ME on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Accoun...50019051727074

    www.PoconoDigitalWoodshop.com

    www.AccountabilityTag.com


  8. #8
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    Thanks Al, I appreciate it!
    That's not what I pictured it looking like, I've never had any reason to pull my Z bearing carriage yet so I have never seen behind it before.

    Because of the hours you put on your machines you've seen deeper into them than most of us, but you have everything so well documented with great photos too.
    There have been times where I've needed to to do something on mine and I don't have to even bother looking at the exploded diagrams because I recall seeing photos of it that you have posted.

    Thanks

    Justin Pierce, aka spalted
    *Pattern Editor (Probe) * Centerline * Dxf Import * STL Importer * Version 3 Standalone * Advanced 3D * Advanced 2D * Conforming Vectors * Rotary *C Machine *Rock Chuck

  9. #9
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    My latest idea is to skip the brushless router and go with a Spindle... Either a Air cooled one or a Water cooled one... Replace the cut motor. Put the Spindle on the back of the machine. Sure it is an investment in the VFD and Spindle but I would leave the Cut Motor and could always remove the spindle later. From what I am seeing for NOISE... THIS might be the answer for CW Users that get Neighbor Noise Complaints... In my opinion the Spindle would keep it's value.... Someone is always building a CNC....
    Favorite Saying.... "It's ALL About the Brass Roller"..... And "Use MASKING TAPE" for board skipping in the X or breaking bits.

    Follow ME on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Accoun...50019051727074

    www.PoconoDigitalWoodshop.com

    www.AccountabilityTag.com


  10. #10
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    Al, if you go that route please let us know how it goes. My CW is by far the loudest tool I have and that is saying a lot.

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