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Thread: New Machine Old Problems

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    NE PA USA
    Posts
    9,984

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    From the electronic side for anyone new with a machine reading this thread. The Cut Motor is tied to the computer through the X Termination Board. The Q1 Transistor or the 3 leg device is a simple electronic switch. When ever the machine is turned on one side of the voltage to run the cut motor is on one leg of the 3 leg transistor. IF this component were to fail it will do so in one of 2 ways. It either opens or it shorts. SO if it shorts the cut motor starts even if the computer did not tell it to start. The 2nd component failure I experienced twice was the C1 Capacitor snapping one leg and intermittently touching. This intermittent touching caused MY machine to spin up the cut motor. I could pound my fist on the top of the machine and make the cut motor spin up for a second. IF you are changing a bit and have your fingers inside the machine Normally the Right Side Cut Motor Safety Switch protects you as the clear cover is open. BUT.. IF you bypass this Right Side Switch either component failure could cause the cut motor to turn on and if your fingers are inside it could be bad.

    This is like changing the table saw blade with it still plugged in. With the low bidder on off switch to protect you.

    So for the new guys this is why I have never bypassed a Safety Switch.

    Here are some pictures. If you look at the very early 2008 dates on the pictures you can find a post that I did when the cut motor was starting when it should not and it took me some time to find the broken wire on the C1 Capacitor.

    I don't consider myself the Safety Police but I want to explain it in detail so as a new user reading this understands why a fellow member raised the flag. We don't want to let a post slide that goes against the manufacture design and recommendations. We don't want it to be considered "Normal... Everyone bypasses Safety Switches". And it is not true in my opinion.

    I have the benefit of working for SONY making Picture Tubes starting in 1995 where in a plant of 4000 Employees some bypassed some safety devices and joined the 8 and 9 digit club. The Safety Department would bring them in to speak to the new employees and show the results. I also have 20 years in the Navy operating and repairing Radars and Computers. I posted the last picture of me in 1984. I was a student then but ended up teaching this Weapons System for 3 years. So I am always thinking Safety...

    Pictures 6 and 7 are BURNT Boards.... I copied the photos from the Forum. Not sure why they burnt. But imagine if one burnt when you were changing your bit with the safety switch bypassed... Ouch.

    AL
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC07810_WEB.jpg   DSC07813_WEB.jpg   DSC07808_WEB.jpg   DSC07811_WEB.jpg  

    DSC08069_WEB.jpg   Burnt X Termination.jpg   X Term board.jpg   Zio1_WEB1.jpg  

    Last edited by Digitalwoodshop; 06-12-2018 at 09:07 PM.
    Favorite Saying.... "It's ALL About the Brass Roller"..... And "Use MASKING TAPE" for board skipping in the X or breaking bits.

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  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Brunswick, GA
    Posts
    8,123

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    I have never even considered bypassing the switches. I've had no reason to do so. Plus, I play piano, still have all my fingers and want to keep it that way.
    Michael T
    Happy Carving!


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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Western NC
    Posts
    59

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    Thanks for the picture of your sled. I like the bolts on the side to compress it against the rail. It looks like you can get it tighter then the ones that I have seen that compress the ends.

    I went out last night and got a piece of MDF and set up rollers for the infeed/outfeed as close to the machine as I could, and got the feed tables completely out of the equation as they flex too much, and I got sick of adjusting them.

    With the mdf carrier board and the rollers set up it carved like a dream! I ran just the mdf through the machine three or four times by "loading a project" and I couldn't believe I didn't get any errors. I also taped a rough sawn/weathered board (with the slightest twist) and carved an awesome sign with not one problem.

    I read somewhere that if the sled rails are too high compared to the project board that it can interfere with center line text, have you experienced this?

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Western NC
    Posts
    59

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    "1000 trouble-free hours on my machine"

    "
    over 2000 hours carving time"

    Props to both of you for keeping them running! My first machine, a B, only lasted 130 hours before the clutch in the crank broke, the sand paper belts rolled into the side of the machine, the gears that crank the head in the bottom of the machine striped out, and I had to replace the z truck and flex shaft. To top it all off I had to replace the card reader too . I guess I'm too hard on stuff!

  5. #15

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    I would like to address the question regarding the number or percentage of owners who have bypassed safety switches.

    In another thread another Carvewright owner stated:
    "I have had my switches bypassed for years with no issue. My router in my router table (where i do 90% of my routing) is never unplugged. I change many bits. I also removed the blade cover from my table saw as 90% of real woodworkers do. You should be aware and have understanding of what you decide to do."

    We don't have a practical way to get accurate data on Carvewright cover switch bypass frequency, but since an owner related this behavior to table saw blade guard removal, I did a little search on that.

    Here is a paper by the Consumer Product Safety Commission:
    Among the findings:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think this shows that the forum statement that was made regarding the percentage of hobbyists that remove table saw blade guards is highly inaccurate. I think that there is a correlation to similar statements made regarding the percentage of Carvewright owners who have bypassed switches. I think that percentage is small.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by lesuer27 View Post
    Thanks for the picture of your sled. I like the bolts on the side to compress it against the rail. It looks like you can get it tighter then the ones that I have seen that compress the ends.

    I went out last night and got a piece of MDF and set up rollers for the infeed/outfeed as close to the machine as I could, and got the feed tables completely out of the equation as they flex too much, and I got sick of adjusting them.

    With the mdf carrier board and the rollers set up it carved like a dream! I ran just the mdf through the machine three or four times by "loading a project" and I couldn't believe I didn't get any errors. I also taped a rough sawn/weathered board (with the slightest twist) and carved an awesome sign with not one problem.

    I read somewhere that if the sled rails are too high compared to the project board that it can interfere with center line text, have you experienced this?
    Fantastic!

    Yes, the rails must be close in height to the board - I would say about 1/8" but don't have an exact number. There is an option to Jog To Touch which you should use when running with a sled. The machine will default to touching near the edge of the board to find height, which will be the rail. You can manually override every time, or set a user option on the machine keypad, to Jog To Touch. You will be prompted to move the bit to the touch position using the keypad. Have the bit touch down over the board and not the rails. No problems then with Centerline.

    (Make sure you choose a touch position that is not in line with the thumbscrews, so that the bit is not hitting them during the board thickness finding operation.)

    Here's what I did to make the infeed/outfeed tables easier to adjust and more stable:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    2,401

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    As I said before, I am not advocating that everyone bypass the cover switches. I am just sharing my experiences. If it doesn't feel right, don't do it.

    Michael,

    Does your ShopBot have safety cover switches?
    Steve

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    2,401

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    Has anyone ever modified a car for their own needs? Maybe put bigger wheels on it or even modified the engine? Has any one ever mounted a hand power saw to the underside of a table allowing the blade to protrude above the surface so it could be used as a make-shift table saw? So, what's the point here? I think all of us have, at one time or another, modified or adapted standard equipment to suit our own needs. Why should the Carvewright be any different? And no, I don't have any statistics on that. Just trying to make a point!
    Steve

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northern Colorado
    Posts
    7,962

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    The cover switches were required to be put on the machine by UL in order to get their certification. In the grand scheme of things they do serve a purpose in the safety of operating the machine and how the machine communicates with the computer.

    Yes, some have by passed (removed the switch from the electrical circuit) while others have replaced them with a more reliable similar (an enclosed) switch and others have removed the plunger style switch and installed a toggle style switch at another location on the cover or out side of the machine. The toggle switch still maintains the intended safety features designs but relies on the operator to set the switch prior to placing their hands inside the machine. I look at the removal of the switches from the circuit as similar to plugging in the seat belt to stop the red light and dinging and not having the belt around you.

    There are also others (me for one) who have never replaced the switches. I still have the original switches that came with the machine. I have adjusted the switch location so that it meets up the the clear tab on the cover and have also removed them and cleaned the contacts.

    When making modifications to any machine one needs to be aware of the risks of doing so and what could happen if the modification fails. Advocating that others should make the same modification could put them at risk and one at risk of liability for doing so in this day an age of anything goes.
    RingNeckBlues
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  10. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Brunswick, GA
    Posts
    8,123

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNelson46 View Post

    Michael,

    Does your ShopBot have safety cover switches?
    In a way, yes. The Control Box has a key that you turn off the power to the spindle prior to changing bits. As far as I know, all commercially sold CNC machines have a safety feature of this kind. CW has it implemented in the cover switch...ShopBot has the key/lock.

    I went out to the shop and took a couple pics to help you understand how the safety feature is done on the SB. The key is attached to the collet wrench by a short length of aircraft wire that cannot reach the spindle.

    The key cannot be removed until the power to the spindle is powered off - thus, there is NO CHANCE that the user can change a bit with power still on to the spindle. Also NO CHANCE that the user would forget to turn it off. They have to use the collect wrench to install/remove a bit.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Key_Location.png   Wrench-cannot-reach-until-key-is-off.png  
    Last edited by mtylerfl; 06-13-2018 at 02:50 PM.
    Michael T
    Happy Carving!


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