Z Axis Stall ERR E06-0314

[Firefighter938]

looked around on here and could not find whats causing this! Almost done with carve and this happens 3 times in a row at the same spot. Any ideas?

[bergerud]

We need more info on this. Was the stall at the deepest part of the carve? Pictures? What chuck?

[Digitalwoodshop]

Can you find a hole in the brass roller plastic bracket where a bit still spinning from a bit change spin up drilled through the plastic. A piece of credit card plastic over the hole with glue will fix it. On my old machine I need to open the cover after spin up as the bit is going for it's dip at the brass roller. If the bit is still spinning it will drill a hole giving you this error. Older motors spin LONGER then newer motors. Designer is written for a new or newer motor hence the wait time for the motor to stop spinning is OK... BUT comma.... as the machine gets older and looser, the motors are still spinning when they bob down.

[mister_zed]

I have identified a bit peculiar behaviour regarding the Z Axis Stall-thing. (Software 1.187)

I had a carving for both sides of a board. The machine started from the back side, which was a rasterized pattern with the 1/16" carving bit, and then a few straight lines carved with the 1/8" cutting bit and the 3/8". No problems whatsoever on the backside, it carved clean and nice.
Then I flipped the board over and went through the measuring steps and the usual fitting of bits before the carve would start. First bit, 90 degrees groove was OK (install, the machine finds the bit, does some movement up and down Z axis -and then prompts for next bit). Next bit was 3/8". Again: install bit, machine homes to the brass sensor side, starts going down to bottom, up, down again - and then comes the E06-0314 (or was it 0313?).

I repeat the procedure, error at same place. Remember that the smaller groove bit was OK both times (although the travel path was longer for the smaller bit). Same error at same place. Repeat the third time, same error. It cannot be cable or motor or rails, as the movement with the long 3/8" is under any circumstances shorter than with the groove bit.

I decide to try and document the behaviour. Now I remove everything from the front-side pattern except for four lines with the 3/8" bit. Again, when prompted to insert the bit, I get the stall error. Consistently, always in same place. Tried a few times.

I decided to play around a bit more. What I did next was to run exactly same front side project with the only four lines, but this time I tried to make the software believe that I had another bit in the machine. I did it by telling the machine I wanted to get the board cut out (which I did not want, of course.) When prompted for the 1/8" cutting bit first, I inserted the 3/8" bit instead. The machine went through the usual moves and NO ERROR on Z Axis whatsoever. Then I was prompted to insert the 3/8" bit and after the usual moves the machine started the cutting motor. Again, no error on Z axis.

Repeated the procedure 3 times, no trace of error.

Changed the procedure to same project, but without the cut out. Error came back. Again very consistently.

I have a hypothesis: the problem might be related to what the machine believes about a bit's size (length). Same bit will cause Z axis error in one setup, but not in another setup. As I have not been using my Compucarve for almost two years now, I forgot how it used to behave. But I believe that my Z Axis Stall problems with the 3/8" bit could be related to my replacing the plastic bit close to the brass roller with a small thin piece of metal sheet. So maybe everything will go away if I move the 3/8" a bit up... And yes, I still use the QC...

[mister_zed]

...and a few more words... I saw what Al wrote about his old machine... Mine is the A model with old software 1.187, so that might count as old...

Anyway, my trick not to get the plastic plate (or metal sheet nowadays) drilled into is to move the Z truck by hand as far as possible to the right when replacing bits. That gives the motor extra time to spin up and spin down when moving towards the plastic bit, because it has to travel all of the Y axis length before plunging down. The rotation stops just a few fractions of an inch above the metal sheet.

Maybe that can help with the machine drilling into itself...

[bergerud]

Nice trick to time lag the spin down. I will have to remember that one and pass it on.

As for the stall, can you upload the simplest project which consistently gives you the stall?

[mister_zed]

Here comes the project that always fails in the same spot, unless I ask the machine to cut the board to size and change bits as specified in my previous post.
Hopefully the file name won't cause problems...

[mister_zed]

...and one more input...

As I happen to still use the old style QC chuck so I have bits with the QC adapters, which allows me to test another trick. My 3/8" bit is original, bought in the full set as distributed from Carvewright. (But I believe I bought it via Sears.) Anyway, I moved the bit slightly less than 1/8" upwards (losen the nut, push the bit, tighten the nut.) The error went away. Consistently. Then I reverted the bit to the "factory mount position" and the error reappeared. Consistently.

So I have a very wild theory to present: in my case the Z axis stall is caused not by obstructions on the rails, worn out anything or some other physical problems. I would like to suggest that version 1.187 of software for some reason keeps track of expected bit length AND the track keeping of bit size might be affected by factors that have nothing to do with the bit itself (like in my case: when I told the machine I wanted the board cut to size, the very simple operation of carving 4 lines suddenly worked, while it woould not work when the machine did not prepare for cutting the board to size.)

My professional experience from the real world outside this forum (database architect) tells me that this kind of unexpected behaviour from the software's part sounds more like a bug than feature.

I wonder if all of those guys that get Z axis stall consistently in the same place in their projects might have a similar situation: a combination of software expecting some bith length, the order in which bits are inserted and bit size, of course. Maybe it could help if you move the bit slightly upwards, but that is only doable with the QC. Maybe adding board cutout at the end of the project (without executing it) might also help... Just trying to understand myself and see if somebody can add anything to my findings.

[bergerud]

I just tried it on one of my machines and it worked fine. How far down does your bit go? Measure from the bottom of the z truck to the tip of the bit and I will try that.

[mister_zed]

Now (after the change) it is around 1.77", before the change it was 1.89", give or take a few thousand fractions.

I measured with a board in the machine, lowering the Z truck so that the bit tip barely touched the board and then measured from the board to the bottom of the metal "thing" that holds the Z truck bearings (and that also holds the QC).