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Thread: Designer 3.0 costs what?

  1. #41
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    Feb 2014
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    "If a bug is critical enough it may be fixed on a previous version."

    Yes, Connie he did. I just wasn't happy with the word "may" in his response so I thought I would try again. I would also like to know what "critical enough" may imply.

  2. #42
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    I can't answer that, jack.
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  3. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    I apologize that I haven't been more active on this forum and I hate that it seems that I mostly chime in when dissatisfied. But please take my word, I am a team player and appreciate anyone's honest effort. I will give praise as much as, or even more often than I complain or criticize. In actuality, I feel that praise and support is what gives me the right to also complain when needed.


    Most software applications are indeed updated regularly. That's one sign of software that is constantly improving, evolving, addressing user problems/concerns, fixing bugs that will inevitably emerge, and keeping up with technology. For this reason, I usually "have to" upgrade just to stay on par with the times.

    However, most software companies do not make major version updates on a yearly basis--and if they do, they do not stop supporting and fixing the previous version for at least a year or two. Let's face it, not many people purchase new software when it is first released. That's actually a good practice since most first releases have bugs. So waiting a while for the software to mature and become more stable is wise. So let's say you wait 6 months after a release to make your purchase; which is more than reasonable. It is ridiculous that the software company abandons this version just 6 months later by no longer updating it!

    It is even more ridiculous that the company expects you to pay anywhere near the same price you just paid for the new version. Even the "big" software companies give ample notification when they plan to make a major change like this. They make it clear what is going to happen and usually offer a major discount for the "current" version since it is then essentially a "lame duck". Often, they will announce a 6-month period prior to the new release that any purchase of the most current version comes with a free upgrade to the upcoming new release. That shows respect for the customer and their hard-earned money. It also helps build a loyal customer base. I feel upgrading from Designer 2 to Designer 3 should be $100--especially since Designer 2 was being touted as the next great version with no mention that it would be abandoned "technologically speaking" in a year's time from its release.

    Now, I absolutely understand that LHR is in business and business is to make money. They can't just give things away at a loss. But they shouldn't take advantage of its loyal customers either, which is exactly what I feel is being done here. From personal experience, I know that LHR can be fair but they can also be stubborn and not be willing to make changes once they have made a decision--even if the change has little or no negative effect to themselves and/or with foster a stronger and more lucrative business. I just hope this is not an occasion of the latter.


    One user mentioned to just write it off on taxes. That's certainly viable if you're in business, but letís remember that the CarveWright is a hobbyist machine, not a commercial-grade even though some of us may use it for business. I also read that if we aren't happy, just don't buy the software and stop belly-aching. I have to respectfully disagree with that. If a consumer doesn't express disapproval or point out problems they have, how will a company even be aware of the situation? And how will anything ever get resolved?


    Lastly, I just want to express my respect that LHR allows us to post our grievances as long as we do so in a courteous manner. I just hope that this is not falling on deaf ears as I fear it will cause me (and most likely many others) to move on to another cnc machine and software. If you do a search on the internet other than this site, you will most likely find like I have that the majority of comments, reviews, and such reflect that the CarveWright is a capable hobbyist machine but is quite problematic and that LHR's software policies, prices, and capabilities are a major reason to go with something else. LHR has been making advances in the machine and huge strides with the software, I just hope they revise their policies and pricing practices before those internet opinions become pure fact and cause the end of the company. I feel such a change will only help the company by attracting a much larger and loyal customer base...but what do I know?



    Mike T.

  4. #44

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    If there were "critical bugs" in Designer 2 or Designer Basic, they would be known by now and already addressed. What Metallus stated is the likelihood of anything being so critical we have to address it would most likely be changes in operating systems that will inevitably come someday.

  5. #45

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    Ok, I have to chime in a little bit here. I know everyone wants to get their 2 cents in, but lets stay in the realm of reality when doing so. First of all, there are always pissed off customers, no matter what we do. The thing is, those who bought Designer 2 got to use the features of Designer 2 and there is value in that. If they only upgraded to Designer 2 recently and feel they haven't got their money's worth out of it, then they should wait to upgrade. The only other option is to always buy when the software is released so you get your money's worth by the time when the next release comes out. This applies to every piece of technology and software on the planet. Designer 2 is also not obsolete by any means and is stable, so stating it is not supported implies that it needs supporting, which it doesn't.

    Second, comparing the CarveWright System to any of the other so called "options" for CNC on the market as if they are somehow more capable or more stable is completely misinformed. There is no other system that could be bought for under $10,000 that can be maintained annually as inexpensively as a CarveWright or come even close to it's capabilities. Software and all! I'll challenge anyone who doesn't believe me to a carve off with any other system out there to prove it. I've done it before, and run circles around them. Don't be fooled by anyone stating an open loop stepper motor system is anything but an erector set with 1970's tech.

    Bottom line is, we spent a lot of time and money to develop the features. We also spent a lot of time figuring out how to price everything. We worked from the data we had available, like percentage of people doing updates, and active machines in the market, and whatever else is relevant. This gives us an idea of what we can do and how to set our pricing. We could've gone an entirely different route and created a Basic and Pro Version. The problem with doing that means abandoning the modular approach and charging like $1500 or more for the Pro version, like other software companies do. The new version fee's for that would have to be pretty high as well. Doing it the way we have generates the needed revenue for us to continue and keeps the pricing at a low cost.

    I know there are still people who are going to want to have their say about this, but nothing will change about the policy because it can't.
    Last edited by jlovchik; 07-03-2014 at 04:11 PM.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Joe I'm still waiting for an answer on the promise of 2.0 becoming free when new release comes out. Where can 2.0 be downloaded and registered for free? That will let those of us who do not need the latest and greatest to continue to get improvements.

  7. #47
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    Feb 2014
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    Temecula, CA
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    Please allow me to offer my sincere congratulations to you Mr. Marketing Director and CarveWright Expert you are the only person I have ever met in my extensive 30 year aerospace S/W development experience to publicly state "it is not supported implies that it needs supporting, which it doesn't". The implication being that Designer 2 is bug free and perfect. If in fact it is, you are the first in my experience to achieve this.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by CNC Carver View Post
    Joe I'm still waiting for an answer on the promise of 2.0 becoming free when new release comes out. Where can 2.0 be downloaded and registered for free? That will let those of us who do not need the latest and greatest to continue to get improvements.
    Designer 2 will not become the free basic version. That was not promised by LHR. It was discussed by other members of the forum, but not confirmed or guaranteed by LHR.

  9. #49
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    Feb 2007
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    SouthWest Ohio
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    Joe,

    I have never worked for NASA or the Federal government directly; therefore, I am unfamiliar with some pricing practices. I have worked for and owned companies that have had to maintain pricing to stay in business, therefore our backgrounds are somewhat different.

    In the nearly seven years I’ve owned my CarveWright machines, I have spent at least six months trying to work with you and your staff while creating some Tricks-and-Tips. I did not think that LHR’s policies were as constructive as they should have been, but I feel that I learned quite a bit about how your company felt about the customer base. I believe that if I had been able to actually talk with the programmers or had access to someone there that could have answered my questions, the T-N-T about Jigs and Sleds could have been better and the one about Positioning could have been published. After struggling for three months to get information for the first one, I simply asked Michael to publish the article as it was. The message seemed to be "It is my company, I did not ask for your help, go away."

    I was also a computer programmer for about thirty years before retiring so I have some understanding in that area also.

    From my perspective, you seem to continue to shoot yourself in the foot one way or another. You can continue to alienate your base only so much before you destroy what you have built. Henry Ford could have charged more for his cars, but he was more intent upon providing jobs in the USA and building cars. There are thousands of companies that chose to extract the maximum from their products; nearly all of them are no longer in business.

    Granted, many of my experiences date from the 1960’s so some things have changed, although perhaps not for the better. Also, my experience may be quite different than others might have.

    If the programming costs are what is driving these costs, perhaps having the coding done offshore, like the machines, could bring down the costs. I would suggest "open-source", but control becomes a problem if it is necessary for your model.

    However, your post above sounds more like there is value in the CW system that can be "milked", and you will get push-back from those being squeezed.
    The message we may hear is "It is my company; you are just a source of our income."

    Note: I love what the CW allows me to do and I believe that it started out well; there seems to be too little respect for the user at times. This is a hobby machine that does some amazing things.
    Last edited by DocWheeler; 07-08-2014 at 09:04 PM. Reason: I appeared too harsh and did not give examples
    Ken,
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    When the People fear their Government, there is Tyranny.
    When the Government fears the People, there is Liberty.
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    - Mohandas Gandhi

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Spring Arbor Michigan
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    It was Connie that had said the free version would would be one behind current version. But that thread has removed.

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