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Thread: What's not wrong?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Saginaw, Texas
    Posts
    1,082

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    Is the board warped or cupped? Sounds like it is not making contact at some point with the brass roller.

    Try putting a couple of strips of masking tape on the bottom of the board, brass roller side.



  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    The Great Texas Gulf Coast
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    5,314

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    Just board is not a normal message. Check cables and connections.


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  3. Default masking tape

    Quote Originally Posted by chief2007 View Post
    Is the board warped or cupped? Sounds like it is not making contact at some point with the brass roller.

    Try putting a couple of strips of masking tape on the bottom of the board, brass roller side.
    OK, the masking tape seems to work. The board was flat, I ran it through a planer to get the thickness I wanted. I'm honestly struggling with the concept that you have to fool the machine at every turn. I realize this is a precision machine. I get that... as I mentioned in previous posts, I worked in a machine shop prior to my military career. I fail to understand why the machine won't do what it's supposed to do without all kinds of tips & tricks. It's like you just have to know stuff about the machine to make it work according to the supposed specifications. If the brass roller is against the wood why doesn't it just work? If the specifications on a bit say it will handle up to one inch of wood, why does the bit break with 1/2 inch wood? If the specifications say that the wood must be at least 1/2 inch thick, why won't it carve wood that is .515 in thickness? This just seems like a terrible way to do business.

    Tom

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Southgate, Mi
    Posts
    1,317

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    All CNC machines have a learning curve. The machine is not without it's oddities and quirks. But this software and machine are by far the easiest to learn. We don't even have to learn toolpaths, the machine does that for you. The important thing is not to get discouraged. Keep learning and soon enough, the things that seem strange will become second nature. Things like masking tape and sleds will be part of the process and the results will be worth your time! It won't be long, you will be teaching others.
    "Carved with Love"

    Happiness comes from within.
    But joy comes from helping others.

    Measure twice... and then sneak up on it!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Whidbey Island, WA
    Posts
    2,250

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orator98 View Post
    OK, the masking tape seems to work. The board was flat, I ran it through a planer to get the thickness I wanted. I'm honestly struggling with the concept that you have to fool the machine at every turn. I realize this is a precision machine. I get that... as I mentioned in previous posts, I worked in a machine shop prior to my military career. I fail to understand why the machine won't do what it's supposed to do without all kinds of tips & tricks. It's like you just have to know stuff about the machine to make it work according to the supposed specifications. If the brass roller is against the wood why doesn't it just work? If the specifications on a bit say it will handle up to one inch of wood, why does the bit break with 1/2 inch wood? If the specifications say that the wood must be at least 1/2 inch thick, why won't it carve wood that is .515 in thickness? This just seems like a terrible way to do business.

    Tom
    The biggest difference (IMHO) on this is that this machine is built (and priced) to be a hobby-level CNC. It is VERY capable of precision work, but the truth is that it does take a pretty fair understanding of the machine to successfully accomplish carves that are to the far left and right limits of the machine's capabilities.

    For example, the machine will handle 14.5 inch wide material up to 12 feet long, but if you try to carve a piece this size (and I haven't) you're REALLY pushing the limits of the machine and will likely encounter problems - even though this board is within the limits of the machine.

    The machine absolutely can carve .5 material (I've done it) but it has to be dialed in perfectly- an easier solution is to just add an extra piece of tape to the bottom of your board to give you the thickness you require.

    Simply put, you do have to know a lot about the machine to get it to work properly- especially on the far left and right limits of the machine's thicknesses, weight limits, width limits, or length limits... but from my discussions with owners of other CNCs, this is not uncommon.

    To you, it may feel like a terrible way to do business, but I believe it is a pretty small price to pay to have such a capable machine at such a low price- nothing out there can touch the carvewright's capabilities for the monetary and footprint cost.

    Lawrence

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    NE PA USA
    Posts
    9,984

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    Tom,

    To address your question as to why a bit would snap in 1/2 inch wood when it is designed to cut 1 inch wood... Actually .8....

    It is not about the depth, it is about the machine loosing contact with the brass roller due to being lightly held to the sand paper belts and brass roller due to the board thickness. IF using a close to minimum thickness and the brass roller slips or looses contact with the tracking of the bottom of the board the high torque X drive has the ability to snap the 1/8 inch cutting bit as it is cutting.

    Yes, it is good you have a Machine Shop and Military Background and with that knowledge it should be easy for you to understand the concepts of what the machine is expecting to see and why... I see you joined in 2007. Over the years we have written Tips and Tricks to help people with Pilot Errors that cause the machine to Crash. Your Intrinsic Knowledge is a great baseline to understanding the machine. Learning the fine points of proper operation is the key to eliminating your frustration that has you blaming the machine.

    Once you understand the machine you will be much happier.

    The simple act of putting strips of masking tape on the bottom of the board, one at the brass roller track to act as a soft material that lets the Brass Roller bite in and become a Rack and Pinion helps greatly to lock the X in the proper position. And if you are using a hard smooth wood like Oak or Maple, extra strips of tape on the underside of the hard board will also give the sand paper belts something to bit into. I have seen Oak and Maple SLIP on the sand paper belts ESPECIALLY when close to the Minimum board thickness...


    Then we have the 7 inch rule of wood, where the board should be held down FLAT to the sand paper belts and brass roller by 2 ROLLERS. When you design a project where the board is only being held by ONE ROLLER, it can TIP UP loosing contact with the Brass Roller hence Snapping a Bit... This is again, Pilot Error... You must design projects to minimize potential problems so it is up to you to not design into the project a potential failure. Under Normal Circumstances you CAN cut a project that at times IS only being held by ONE ROLLER... Just as you CAN ride a bicycle using only ONE HAND.... We all know that riding a bike with one hand "CAN" result in a Crash... Or as we call it... "Pilot Error...." IF a Bike Manufacturer advertised that the bike can be operated with ONE hand leaving your other hand to TEXT MESSAGE and you crashed... Would you fault the Manufacture? I think NOT. Pilot Error...

    Next up on the 7 inch rule of wood and one roller projects... The IN FEED and OUT FEED table.... IF either are adjusted TOO HIGH or TOO LOW as the board hits the Roller on the end of the table it can RAISE OR LOWER off a High Roller and THIS will tilt the Other End of the board... And if Said Board is being held by 1 roller and looses contact with the Brass Roller and SNAPS the bit.... The Rush to Judgment is... "The machine is at FAULT!!!!".... No we call it Pilot Error.....


    So your homework... Take some time to read Tips and Tricks about using Sleds and Carrier Boards to cut your .515 thick board without snapping a bit and for more FrugAL use of wood. I use 4 inches rather than 3.5 inches as the board won't be on the peek of the Rubber Roller when changing directions. So I use 8 inches not 7 for staying under the rollers... Tips and Tricks will explain this.

    And we are not fooling the machine at every turn... We are understanding what the machine expects and how to properly use it.

    Nothing to do with a terrible way to do business but understanding how to use a machine. It's not the machine... It's the operator... sorry.


    Good Luck,

    AL

    Retired Navy Chief.
    Operating and Repairing High Tech Electronics since 1976.... Including Sony Factory Automation.
    Last edited by Digitalwoodshop; 05-10-2013 at 11:18 AM.
    Favorite Saying.... "It's ALL About the Brass Roller"..... And "Use MASKING TAPE" for board skipping in the X or breaking bits.

    Follow ME on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Accoun...50019051727074

    www.PoconoDigitalWoodshop.com

    www.AccountabilityTag.com


  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    NE PA USA
    Posts
    9,984

    Default

    OK... Another post.... I looked over your previous posts to see if I missed anything...

    The Early machines including your 2007 machine had a Board Sensor Weakness as in the Circuit Board was not glued to the black plastic holder. IF you used the QC Chuck after it was WORN OUT and causing high frequency vibration, this would cause the LED's in the board sensor to SNAP OFF.... The non glued Circuit Boards also let DUST get inside the Board Sensor Window. A Standard Test for the Board Sensor it to place a sheet of White Copy Paper on the board and crank down the head. Then using Options, Sensor Data, and Board Sensor you can read the Reflective Energy of the 2 IR LED's shining on the paper and seen by the Photo Detector between the LED's. Hence, the Reflective Energy.... With White Paper the reading should be about 156. A 90 could simply be a DIRTY WINDOW... IF the Board Detection Process has LESS Power when it goes off the edge of the board the change is reflective energy could be about the same. With a 156 then ZERO the machine is seeing the edge.... Like shining a flashlight down a dark road and seeing a REFLECTOR a mile away... You are seeing the reflective energy.... The White Paper gives you a STANDARD... My paper is the same as your paper... My Brown Board is different than your brown board...


    Next... The 18 pin and 14 pin FSC Cable... The A907 upgrade gave US thicker Conductors for the Wires of the FSC Cable... The Thick cable that gives power to the Z Head AND is the return path for Encoder Data AND Board Sensor Readings.... The thinner 18 pin FSC Cables have a High Failure Rate.... HENCE.... You should upgrade to the 14 pin cable if you have not.... And just a warning... You must buy the A907 KIT... It has the Cable and 2 Circuit Boards... The New Boards are required as the new cable is 14 pin... IF you plug the new 14 pin cable into the OLD Circuit Boards with the 18 pin socket... The WIDER 14 pin cable will Short Out the thinner 18 pin socket... The Result.... The COMPUTER WILL FRY.... and it won't be the machine's fault...

    And when you go to replace the board sensor if you pull the cable down you can cause it to slide along the cable slot and pinch on the sharp metal edge like 3 of my 4 machines did... Again... My Pilot Error... This caused a Short Circuit and many other problems. To fix a dirty window, I cut down the back of the sensor and then clean the window and tape the area closed.

    Good Luck,

    AL
    PS: I push the use of Masking Tape as I have Stock in a Masking Tape Company.... LOL..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails BS1.jpg   BS2.jpg   BS3.jpg   DSC09540_WEB.jpg  

    DSC08510_WEB.jpg   DSC08509_WEB.jpg   DSC08500_WEB.jpg   DSC06680_WEB.jpg  

    Last edited by Digitalwoodshop; 05-10-2013 at 12:16 PM.
    Favorite Saying.... "It's ALL About the Brass Roller"..... And "Use MASKING TAPE" for board skipping in the X or breaking bits.

    Follow ME on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Accoun...50019051727074

    www.PoconoDigitalWoodshop.com

    www.AccountabilityTag.com


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