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Thread: ER11 Adapter for the CT

  1. #21
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    I found this while surfing for ER11 stuff. I believe it is the same chuck that Jeff was talking about. Price is not bad compared to the $83 and over $100 I have seen elsewhere. You still have to buy collets. (Try Shars for those.)

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ER-11-STUBBY...-/110759870818
    Last edited by bergerud; 03-01-2013 at 02:08 PM.

  2. #22
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    I had contacted the manufacturer of the USA made ER11 stubby collet chucks again a few weeks ago to find out about getting some made up to fit the CarveTight (or 1/2" Rock) chuck. Their design guy was on vacation so it took a while for them to look at what it would take to make them.

    They will be 'super stubby' ER 11 collet chucks, about 1.4" long (not including closing nut) with wrench flats just above the nut closing threads. With ER11 collets you use any bit up to 3/16".

    What I would like to do is get an idea of the interest folks have in these. The more we can get made up at a time the less expensive they will be. Ideally I would like to have them priced low enough that you can keep your most used tools mounted in a 'Super Stubby' all the time and just swap them directly in/out of the CT/Rock with no worry about bushings. I don't feel comfortable 'advertising' things on CarveWrights forum so if your interested in one or more of these please send me an email at birt_j@soigeneris.com . Just let me know you are interested and about how many you might be interested in. Once I have an idea I'll be able to get some pricing and I'll send a replay to everyone who expressed an interest and let you know that the cost per piece would be.
    Happy carving , Jeff Birt

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  3. #23
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    This is a good thing. I do not think people realize how something like this opens up the possibilities. The main one will be freedom from the breakage fear of the 1/8" cutting bit. Most cut outs and mills are much less than 1" deep and one can use cheaper cutting bits with a shorter LOC which do not break. Freedom from the pressed on adapters. Carbide shanks of regular router bits as well the as carving bits like Jeff sells will all fit without slipping. One can experiment with such things as two flute bits or 1/32 carving bits. I have an ER16 on my machine and I buy bits like my wife buys shoes!

    The ER11 adapter may be a little expensive, being made in the USA. But, the money saved on cutting bits after only two unbroken ones will pay it off!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_Birt View Post
    With ER11 collets you use any bit up to 3/16".
    I think you meant 5/16". Usually collet sets sold are 1/32,1/16,3/32,1/8,3/16,7/32,1/4, but there are other sizes like 5/32,9/32, and even 5/16. Also there are metric ones (which we do not want). I think one really only needs 1/8,3/16, and 1/4. Collets prices range from $3 each to $30 each and beyond. For wood, the lower end of the scale will probably be ok.

    EDIT: EMAIL JEFF !
    Last edited by bergerud; 03-04-2013 at 09:58 PM.

  4. #24
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    I'm interested. I have only one CW machine so I think a grand total of one ER11 adapter will entirely saturate my needs. It would provide an easy way to use 1/8” shaft bits without replacing the entire spindle. The photos look good and it doesn't look much bigger than the swaged on sleeve of CW bits.

    However, I probably would be more interested in converting my CT to an ER11/20 (haven't decided which). I've seen what Bergerud posted (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?18016-Make-Your-Own-ER11-Spindle&highlight=ER11+adapter) with an entirely new ER11 spindle with his and I think it's overall the best idea. It certainly doesn't have the problems with balance and vibration that all the other spindles have. Unfortunately, like most of us, I don't have a complete machine shop available to me so I haven't been able to do anything but agree that it's a good idea.

    In the thread discussion, I like the idea of using an ER20 with a splined nut over an ER11 so I could use the batch of CW bits I already have (and a couple of ” shaft Freud router bits - 60 and 90 degrees). But even though I don't want to just toss all my CarveWright bits , if I had an ER20, when they wear out I wouldn't replace them with the comparatively more expensive swaged-on CW bits but switch to ”shank bits and source them from a cheaper place. OTOH, with an ER20 I couldn't use the 1/8" bits that are even cheaper and perfect for some of the fine work I do. I don't know whether the ER11 having less mass than an ER20 would be easier on the motor or worse. Spinning up the heavier mass is certainly more work but having the extra mass and inertia keep the bit spinning when it runs into some heavy cutting may be better enough to offset the initial work. Anybody good at Physics?


    Here’s another idea for which I have no idea of its feasibility. Is it possible to make an ER20 adapter to fit in an ER16 spindle? In other words, pretty much what is planned with the ER11 adapter for the CT spindle. Just take an ER20 spindle, shorten it and shave the shaft upper shaft diameter to a max of 5/16” so it will slide into an ER11. GENIUS!

    Is anybody interested in pursuing an ER11 spindle commercially?

    200k
    Last edited by 200k; 03-05-2013 at 01:37 AM.

  5. #25
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    It sounds like you like 1/2" shanks. In that case, you should keep the CT and use an ER11 adapter for the small bits. I do not like the straight ER11 spindle. It is too hard to change bits on the machine with the small collets and small nut. My favorite is the ER16M. I think the ER20 is too big. As for inertia, I have wondered myself. It seems to me that the extra rotational inertia of a big chuck does more harm than good. It is hard on the flex to always spin it up. The argument that inertia helps in the heavy cutting makes sense when the heavy cutting comes in short pulses. That was another reason I went with the ER16.

    Another problem with the straight ER spindle is that of changing bits in a multi-bit project. If you do not have a lock button, the two wrench method gets a bit tedious. If the shank sizes of the bits are different, you have to also change the collet and nut. When you take all of this into account, the ER11 adapter starts to look good. Having a set of them going in and out of a CT would be a sweet setup.

    (Remember to email Jeff if you are interested in an ER11 adapter. Lets not let this important message get buried in the thread.)
    Last edited by bergerud; 03-05-2013 at 02:17 AM.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=Jeff_Birt;199251]
    They will be 'super stubby' ER 11 collet chucks, about 1.4" long (not including closing nut) with wrench flats just above the nut closing threads. With ER11 collets you use any bit up to 3/16". [QUOTE]

    Yes I did mean 5/16", thanks for catching that
    Happy carving , Jeff Birt

    Check out www.soigeneris.com for CarveWright Accesories.

    Home of the 'Carving in the Dark' back lit LCD kit!

  7. #27
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    here is a 3.5 long one on ebay you would just need to shorten them. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ER-11-STUBBY...-/110759870818

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CNC Carver View Post
    here is a 3.5 long one on ebay you would just need to shorten them. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ER-11-STUBBY...-/110759870818
    I had also posted that link. These are cheaper than other Stubby prices I have seen. If the company does make special short ones for the CW, I cannot see them being any cheaper. It could cost a bit to have a set of them with collets. Someone should buy one of those, cut it off and give it a test. There does not, however, seem to be flats on these things for the second wrench.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_Birt View Post
    with wrench flats just above the nut closing threads.
    Maybe it would be better to have the flats higher up away from the CT paw.
    Last edited by bergerud; 03-05-2013 at 09:11 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bergerud View Post
    It sounds like you like 1/2" shanks. In that case, you should keep the CT and use an ER11 adapter for the small bits. I do not like the straight ER11 spindle. It is too hard to change bits on the machine with the small collets and small nut. My favorite is the ER16M. I think the ER20 is too big. As for inertia, I have wondered myself. It seems to me that the extra rotational inertia of a big chuck does more harm than good. It is hard on the flex to always spin it up. The argument that inertia helps in the heavy cutting makes sense when the heavy cutting comes in short pulses. That was another reason I went with the ER16.

    Another problem with the straight ER spindle is that of changing bits in a multi-bit project. If you do not have a lock button, the two wrench method gets a bit tedious. If the shank sizes of the bits are different, you have to also change the collet and nut. When you take all of this into account, the ER11 adapter starts to look good. Having a set of them going in and out of a CT would be a sweet setup.

    (Remember to email Jeff if you are interested in an ER11 adapter. Lets not let this important message get buried in the thread.)
    As usual you are spot on with pertinent info. I didn't realize the "small pieces" problems with the ER11 you were having. At my age, dexterity is no longer second nature - especially in tight quarters where my fingers no longer bend the way they used to. You have convinced me! If I replace my spindle with an ERwhatever it should be an ER16 but for the time being, that nice little ER11 adapter Jeff is working out the details on will fill my needs just fine.
    Jeff: Sign me up for one! (I already emailed you too)

    Spinning up the ER20: I keep forgetting about the flex cable in the bit drive system. Though it works well for the CW as a hobbyist machine, if I was to ever need a commercial CNC router I wouldn't even give a second thought about anything with a flex cable. Yes, I know many of you guys use these machines for businesses, but the flex cable is just not as robust as a direct spindle connection to the motor shaft. I'm actually amazed at how well the flex cable works. I've got a spare in my parts box but as yet I am not even close to needing it. Of course compared to many of you I am still a machine low-timer. The major advantage is the flex cable permits a machine design that is tremendously more compact and needs much smaller stepper motors than if the cut motor was on the z-axis truck. That one little feature permits the existence of a CNC machine costing about half what anything else on the market costs and yet has tons more working-piece size capacity. Yeah, I'll keep it.

    Addendum: I just had a thought. Here I am talking about the extra mass of an ER20 spindle and yet the same effect will be present using an ER11 adapter on a CT spindle, i.e. extra spinning mass on the flex shaft and cut motor. Of course any time I use the ER11 adapter I would be using small bits and by simple physics, the stresses would be smaller than using my Freud 1/2" shank, 1" diameter, 90 V-bit (one of my favorites for Centerline Text). So, though this may be a valid thought, I'm not sure how relevant to any machine damaging concerns it might be.

    200k
    Last edited by 200k; 03-05-2013 at 09:29 AM.

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=bergerud;199277]Someone should buy one of those, cut it off and give it a test. There does not, however, seem to be flats on these things for the second wrench.
    QUOTE]

    I already have modified one of the 1/2" shank stubbys and have been using it for quite a while now. The problem with them is having to cut them down (and keep them balanced) and the lack of wrench flats.
    Happy carving , Jeff Birt

    Check out www.soigeneris.com for CarveWright Accesories.

    Home of the 'Carving in the Dark' back lit LCD kit!

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