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Thread: Apostrophe and the proper use!

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbert View Post
    Wow Ike! You are psychic or something! I just faced this exact dilemma! I made a carving for my cousin, the board I used, lent itself perfectly to fit the pattern. The even horizontal banding of the grain was perfect for the carve... One small problem... a crack. I debated this problem for a little while, I finally decided, that I didn't create the board, and it was recycled. I darn sure was not going to waste it! I filled it in with epoxy, working it into the crack as deep as I could. After it hardened I sanded it smooth, and carved it the next day. I told my cousin about the crack and showed her how I repaired it. She loved it anyway! And agreed with me that the grain was worth an almost invisible crack. If it becomes an issue, I will take care of it. But she will pay for the next piece of wood to carve it with! LOL
    I consider myself a person of high-morals. But I am also a person that likes to make people happy! I once sold a car, for what I payed for it, (three years prior) and told the guy it needed a motor. I was honest with him, but he still wanted the car. I was happy, he was happy.
    I don't think a questionable apostrophe would be an intent to defraud someone. LOL But I do see your point. When I worked at the Lincoln/Mercury dealer, our used car lot used to wholesale any trade-in that was not a Lincoln/Mercury. We used to get fantastic deals! The owner of the Dealer would not have his name attached to anything, but, a Lincoln/Mercury vehicle. I asked him why he would take a loss on these vehicles when he could have profited from their sales. He told me it was because he would have to rely on the reputation of other dealers, to repair those vehicles. And that meant his customers would be "AT" other dealers.
    If another sign-maker see's the mistake, he could ridicule your sign without your knowledge. And use it as an example to steer customers his way.
    But while we are on the subject of apostrophes. If a name ends in S such as Willis. The proper apostrophe for plural would be Willis'. What would the possessive apostrophe be? For example. You make a sign that say's " The Willis' ". Meaning there are more than one member of the Willis Family. But the sign hangs on their house. So the sign could mean that the family owns this property. So what would be correct? " Willis' " , " Willis's ", or " Willises " ? I think I will avoid this in the future by using "family" or "home" after the name!
    Yes if it ends in"S" an apostrophe is needed. Even though it hangs on their home unless it reads the say the Butler's home or house or estates, cabin etc. Then the sign should read The Butlers.... I know about selling items you have own and not made. However I am talking about personal hand made products like signs! Yes I have repaired cracks that I found after a carve! I glued it with quick glue or Gorilla glue and with a torch you can hide the problem. The crack example I meant was a unfix able crack or a very noticeable crack. So I am adamant to the point of losing the order before adding an unnecessary grammar error!

    So if it ends with"S" the rule is replacing a letter like in a contraction did not......didn't. Willis' ......Willis's It is not a matter of defraud like knowing there is an issue with car, putting an apostrophe and knowing it is wrong is a reflection of you and not the customer. Yes I tell them if I do please tell everyone I explained the correct grammar and you are incorrect, no wrong! That has always worked and I never lost an order!

    Ike

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawrence View Post
    I think it is just difference in what all of us think our role is as both craftsmen(women) and what we believe the role of the customer is.

    I personally will let a customer know if something is in error, but if they still want it that way I will document the order the way they order it and press forward. It's not a matter of getting the money and running, it's a matter of treating the customer's wishes with respect.

    My recent ribbon signs are an example-- I knew that the black lettering on the dark background was not going to show up as well as white or silver lettering would have and offered that suggestion to the Commander. He still wanted the black lettering on a dark background. IMHO It would have been wrong for me to have refused to make the piece because I believed that his choice was wrong. If I had pressed too hard or said that I wouldn't make the piece as he wanted because I thought he was wrong I think that I could still consider myself a craftsman, but I could not consider myself a businessman. There is honor in both.

    I'm not saying that you don't have the right to run your business the way you choose to do so Ike, I'm just saying that it doesn't make the choice to take a different path any less honorable. You can still be a craftsman and put out a less than perfect product. I notice every flaw I can in my pieces and make a decision on how to treat it. Some I fix, some I replace,and some I leave because only I know about the flaw and I have to make a business decision because I am charging my customers. There isn't a person that works with wood that doesn't make a concession at some point-- it is up to us to decide where we limit that concession. Charging a customer 10 hours labor to make something PERFECT when the customer only asks for a 3-hour job is the wrong way to treat a customer. At the same time, eating those hours it takes to make a product perfect is not the model of a successful business. There is a reason that Holtey planes cost $7000+
    http://thebestthings.com/newtools/ka...tey_planes.htm
    It is because Karl Holtey uses the business model "perfection at any cost". I charge that this is not the only successful and honorable business model.

    IMHO, meeting the balance between compensation and the total satisfaction of my customers IS my final goal as a businessman. Anything else I do is self-aggrandizing, and while that has value... it is not relevant to the business itself though it has merit on my role as craftsman.

    Lawrence
    Lawrence first thank you! Yes I have ran into color problems and have gone with the customer. Yet again I have yet that I remember have misused an apostrophe! Yes the customer can tell others this guy won't carve what you want! If explained why it is a 50/50 chance I will gain another customer for my principals! Again I have not had this issue!

    As forth to time I charge by the square foot! Yes I notice every flaw remember I hand rout my signs too. I have made the same sign 3 times or more before giving it to the customer! My feelings if I am not happy then nobody is happy! I do not charge for 3 signs or any extra time. I give the customer a price before I make the sign and they pay first. So no matter how many times it takes to carve a sign, sometimes the dang machine messes up and it takes a few tries! Just like hand routing there are time I am right on and other days I suck! Yet I have never passed the cost to the customer!

    By charging by the square foot I had in the cost of extra material. Not unreasonable cost just enough, the average sign blank is no more then $3.00. Anyway we all run our business our own way! By no means am I saying," hey run your business my way!"

    Ike

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    A plural shouldn't have an apostrophe in it. The plural of Willis would be Willises. Willis' would be ownership of something by Willis. Looked those rules up this past year for "Willys" (make of my 1950 truck)....
    I disagree even when you type the Willises the spell check shows it wrong. Both ways plural or possessive if a name ends in "S" and apostrophe is required! Why it is a proper noun! Even Willys ends with a "Y" so in that rule you drop the "Y" and add an "ies" The spell check even shows Willys incorrect it adds an apostrophe between the "Y" and "S"

    Now it is grammatically correct to add the s to Willis's it looks awkward, however is correct. Here is another link for the subject. http://www.scribendi.com/advice/usin...rophes.en.html

    Anyway we all can't agree on everything!

    Ike

  4. #24
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    I agree....
    Doug Fletcher

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladjr View Post
    Ike
    You missed my point. If the customer doesn't get what they want they will not give recommendation to friends for you. I just had a project that they wanted full names on one side and shorten names on other side. It looked unbalanced and I pointed it out, but I made it the way they asked.

    I do not do this as a business. I only make projects I like and give them away for free. I'm retired and do it to relax. I have great respect for those of you that do it as a business and I love seeing your projects.

    My father was a Carpenter and had a great shop, however he didn't want me to follow in his foot steps, so I ended up in a office and now I enjoy working in my shop.

    Sorry for my life story but I wanted you to understand where I was coming from.




    Leo
    Life is to short carve something today


    Leo no I got your point and again I have yet to make an sign with incorrect grammar! Yes you may lose a customer, then again they may tell others and they may agree with you. But I don't get nasty with the customer or act like I am above them. Again I inform them of the correct grammar and they have always agreed. Most cases they just didn't know! It really isn't as big an issue as you may think!

    As I posted before I am not saying to copy me! Run your business as you want! Now prepositions that is another subject!

    Ike

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbfletcher View Post
    I agree....
    Thanks Doug!!

    Ike

    Wow this subject has become an interesting subject!
    Last edited by Ike; 09-21-2012 at 11:42 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    I disagree even when you type the Willises the spell check shows it wrong. Both ways plural or possessive if a name ends in "S" and apostrophe is required! Why it is a proper noun! Even Willys ends with a "Y" so in that rule you drop the "Y" and add an "ies" The spell check even shows Willys incorrect it adds an apostrophe between the "Y" and "S"
    No, not Willy, Willys (which is pronounced "Willis" not "Willeez"). Willys is singular, not plural. Plural of Willys is Willyses. Relying solely on a spellchecker is a guaranteed way to wind up with something wrong - spellcheckers aren't comprehensive and can only tell you correct spellings on words it knows. Most don't know "Willys" so they won't know "Willyses". And for reference, this is what a "Willys" truck looks like:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #28
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    Keep on rocking in the Apostrophe world.
    Happy Carving

    Robert D.
    rcdages

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    The mightiest oak in the forest is just a little nut
    that held it's ground.

  9. #29
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    I say we just doawaywithallpunctuationspacingandgrammerandletsal ljustgetbacktomakingsawdustReallyhowlikelyisitwewi llevermeettheapostrophepoliceanywaysIalwayskeepmyd oorsandwindowslocked

    (ok... I may have gone to far there)

    edit: well thats odd, when i typed that there are no spaces, but as soon as i hit post... it generates random spaces on my behalf. I guess big brother really is watching)
    Doug Fletcher

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbfletcher View Post
    I say we just doawaywithallpunctuationspacingandgrammerandletsal ljustgetbacktomakingsawdustReallyhowlikelyisitwewi llevermeettheapostrophepoliceanywaysIalwayskeepmyd oorsandwindowslocked

    (ok... I may have gone to far there)

    edit: well thats odd, when i typed that there are no spaces, but as soon as i hit post... it generates random spaces on my behalf. I guess big brother really is watching)

    LOL! How hard was it to type all of that and NOT use spaces?!
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