Cutting holes (not circular)

[mtylerfl]

I cut it out tonight. Thanks for your help. It's not as accurate as I'd hoped (neck pocket width was 2.21 at it's widest, and it's a little wider in reality) but a good start. My machine doesn't have the rock chuck or the carve tight, so maybe that'd be a worthwhile upgrade.

That said, I'd call it an overall success. It's practice, and that's why I used MDF. Thanks again for your help; I know I've got a lot more questions!

Sully

Hi Sully,

Glad to hear it's coming along well for you. I looked at your neck pocket and see it shows a dimension of 2.205" at the widest point on your layout. If the result was a width of 2.21", I would say you are "spot-on" with what is drawn on the board layout! I don't know what your desired ending dimension is that you need, but you could either re-draw the shape if it's off by a large amount, or if it's off by less than 1/8" you can simply apply an offset (CW calls it Inset) to the cut path.

1) Figure out the difference between the actual dimension and desired dimension you need and make a note of that figure
2) Select the cut path, then enter that figure as a NEGATIVE numeric value in the "Inset" box to make the overall pocket bigger (positive numbers would make it smaller)
3) Run another test cut and measure the result
4) If it's ok, you can call it done. If not, re-adjust your numeric values again in your layout and run another test - repeat until the exact dimension is achieved

[AskBud]

Also make sure you are using the proper bit for the cut. The "Straight" bits are used for the Drill and the Cut-out functions. If you accidentally use the tapered Carving bit for these operations, your top size of these cuts will be larger than expected, due to that taper.
AskBud

[mtylerfl]

Also make sure you are using the proper bit for the cut. The "Straight" bits are used for the Drill and the Cut-out functions. If you accidentally use the tapered Carving bit for these operations, your top size of these cuts will be larger than expected, due to that taper.
AskBud

Good point. Looking at his MPC it appers the right bits are being used. (I assume he's following the LCD prompts as well, to load the correct bit.)

An aside...Neil, are you coming to the Conference? Sure would like to meet you in person!!

[jsullysix]

Hi Sully,

Glad to hear it's coming along well for you. I looked at your neck pocket and see it shows a dimension of 2.205" at the widest point on your layout. If the result was a width of 2.21", I would say you are "spot-on" with what is drawn on the board layout! I don't know what your desired ending dimension is that you need, but you could either re-draw the shape if it's off by a large amount, or if it's off by less than 1/8" you can simply apply an offset (CW calls it Inset) to the cut path.

1) Figure out the difference between the actual dimension and desired dimension you need and make a note of that figure
2) Select the cut path, then enter that figure as a NEGATIVE numeric value in the "Inset" box to make the overall pocket bigger (positive numbers would make it smaller)
3) Run another test cut and measure the result
4) If it's ok, you can call it done. If not, re-adjust your numeric values again in your layout and run another test - repeat until the exact dimension is achieved

Thanks for confirming that; I was thinking that I could make adjustments by working with a compensated offset. Interesting thing happened when I ran the test; the tabs didn’t get added, and although I set a cut depth of 3/4, it didn’t cut all the way through the ¾ MDF. It was juuuuuuust shy of cutting through. I figured that the MDF was ever so slightly thicker than ¾. For this particular test, it was a preferred result because I’d rather drill an access hole into the remaining MDF (almost paper thin), and run it around the router with a pattern bit to clean it up than having to deal with filing tabs flush.

I did use a 3/8 straight bit; I don’t expect to use the tapered carving bits for much of anything, as I’ll be using the CW for cavities and such, and you need straight walls for that. I do think that I may have set it the max pass depth a bit on the aggressive side (I think I had it to a 3/8 cut depth with each pass). While it was just MDF and a new bit, I think that I could get a tighter tolerance with more shallow passes. I’ll give that a shot next time.

The other question I have is if there is a way to change the tool path so that the cut out starts in the center of what will become a cavity, and have the bit work its way out from the center. This might help as well; when the neck pocket was cut out, I can see trails of each pass on the remaining walls of the template, which wouldn’t be desireable. My thought is that if the bit starts in the center and essentially hogs out what needs to be removed, the last cuts would create the template’s “walls” so to speak, and be a little cleaner. It’d also get rid of the need for tabs. Starting in the center and working my way outward to the final shape is how I rout cavities out by hand, so I’d think that it would be a similar result.

Last question for now (and seriously, thank you so much for helping me) is how I would I design things like rib contours, as pictured here:





It takes me hours to do these by hand (and rasp)

Thanks all!

Sully

[AskBud]

I just wanted to jump in with a point-of-order.
From your last post, it would appear that you changed to a simple vector cut, rather than a true Cut-out using the Cut path Icon. The Cut Path Icon provides tabs, where a simple vector cut has no tabs provided. The provided tabs are at the very bottom of the path, and only as high as you select.
Here is a screen shot of the Cut-out Control options.

AskBud

[jsullysix]

I just wanted to jump in with a point-of-order.
From your last post, it would appear that you changed to a simple vector cut, rather than a true Cut-out using the Cut path Icon. The Cut Path Icon provides tabs, where a simple vector cut has no tabs provided. The provided tabs are at the very bottom of the path, and only as high as you select.
Here is a screen shot of the Cut-out Control options.

AskBud

Y'know, it's possible, I don't recall. I made a few different changes by the time I ran it through the machine. I do remember selecting everything and then clicking the Select bit icon and chose the 3/8th bit and set the depth cuts. Maybe that undid what I did with the Cut path icon? I'm not sure.

Sully

[mtylerfl]

Thanks for confirming that; I was thinking that I could make adjustments by working with a compensated offset. Interesting thing happened when I ran the test; the tabs didn’t get added, and although I set a cut depth of 3/4, it didn’t cut all the way through the ¾ MDF. It was juuuuuuust shy of cutting through. I figured that the MDF was ever so slightly thicker than ¾. For this particular test, it was a preferred result because I’d rather drill an access hole into the remaining MDF (almost paper thin), and run it around the router with a pattern bit to clean it up than having to deal with filing tabs flush.

I did use a 3/8 straight bit; I don’t expect to use the tapered carving bits for much of anything, as I’ll be using the CW for cavities and such, and you need straight walls for that. I do think that I may have set it the max pass depth a bit on the aggressive side (I think I had it to a 3/8 cut depth with each pass). While it was just MDF and a new bit, I think that I could get a tighter tolerance with more shallow passes. I’ll give that a shot next time.

The other question I have is if there is a way to change the tool path so that the cut out starts in the center of what will become a cavity, and have the bit work its way out from the center. This might help as well; when the neck pocket was cut out, I can see trails of each pass on the remaining walls of the template, which wouldn’t be desireable. My thought is that if the bit starts in the center and essentially hogs out what needs to be removed, the last cuts would create the template’s “walls” so to speak, and be a little cleaner. It’d also get rid of the need for tabs. Starting in the center and working my way outward to the final shape is how I rout cavities out by hand, so I’d think that it would be a similar result.

Last question for now (and seriously, thank you so much for helping me) is how I would I design things like rib contours, as pictured here:

It takes me hours to do these by hand (and rasp)

Thanks all!

Sully

Hi Sully,

If you use the actual Cut Path Tool, you will never have to worry about tabs disappearing nor a shallow cut-thru of your board. What happened is you set a depth equal to your board thickness manually - so, the bit could not travel/plunge down all the way through the board (leaving an onion skin). Unfortunately, Designer will NOT allow you to manually set a bit depth any greater than the specified thickness of the board (it didn't use to be that way...and a couple of us have been lobbying for that to change...maybe it will, maybe it won't).

The Cut Path Tool automatically keys in on the board thickness and adds an additional plunge depth amount (about 0.072" or 0.076" I think) for a clean cut out, leaving the number of tabs you specified, as described in that article I pointed you too earlier (have you read that yet?). If you try to create your own manual cut paths, you really need to think about what you are doing and if there is actually a valid reason to set a manual cut out in the first place. You could easily end up with loose parts flying around your machine if you aren't careful. Setting up a manual cut out is not hard to do, you just have to pay attention. Plus, at the moment, you cannot really get a super clean manual cut out anyway because you cannot assign a bit depth greater than the board thickness.

A couple examples of where I have set manual cut outs myself is my Trout Project and the Sailboat Weather Predictor project. However, those projects were created long before Designer 1.131 came out, and the manual cut paths would not be necessary nowadays. If I were to redo similar projects, I would use the Cut Path Tool. When you can, stick with the actual Cut Path Tool - it is seldom necessary not to (if you understand how to use it and how it works - read that article - it's not difficult). For Pierced Carvings (using the tapered Carving Bit) you can control where the tabs go (because you make them yourself) and you can see them on-screen. However, you will NOT get straight sides like what you need for your "pockets". That's a totally different subject (i.e., Pierced Carves), though, and not recommended for what you are doing for the inside pocket/cut outs because you'll get tapered sidewalls. Did you see the two videos I created for making pockets? When you have time, you may want to watch those too - they are posted at the CW website and the CarveBuddy website.

As far as modeling the rib contours, LG (THE "guitar and violin guy") has shown an example of doing just that using the new tools that CarveWright will be releasing for sale very soon. Here is a link to his recent post...
http://forum.carvewright.com/showthr...725#post178725

[mtylerfl]

...The other question I have is if there is a way to change the tool path so that the cut out starts in the center of what will become a cavity, and have the bit work its way out from the center. This might help as well; when the neck pocket was cut out, I can see trails of each pass on the remaining walls of the template, which wouldn’t be desireable. My thought is that if the bit starts in the center and essentially hogs out what needs to be removed, the last cuts would create the template’s “walls” so to speak, and be a little cleaner. It’d also get rid of the need for tabs. Starting in the center and working my way outward to the final shape is how I rout cavities out by hand, so I’d think that it would be a similar result.

Sully

I forgot to answer ths question. In short, no, you cannot make pockets cut from the center outward from within Designer. UNLESS...it is a CIRCULAR pocket...then you would use the Drill Tool, and that always spirals from the center outward. The videos I mentioned cover this already, along with a host of other tips for doing pockets (NOT cut outs, which is what you're really doing now).

[jsullysix]

Everything that you said makes complete sense to me, thanks for that. I’m looking at the mpc that I used right now and the Cut Path tool isn’t highlighted, so I must have selected the pockets, then chose the bit and inset, and it took it from there as (I’m guessing) as simple rout job.

I did read the article that you linked me to, thanks for that, it’s appreciated. I actually watched your pocket cutting videos over the weekend, because when it comes to actually cutting guitar bodies with the machine, the neck pocket and pickup cavities are pockets. I just figured that I’d start with making some basic guitar building templates out of mdf before I start using it to cut bodies.

Based on what you’re saying about manual tool paths (I got the idea from your pocket videos, actually), I won’t bother with doing that since there’s no real benefit in this application.

Thanks for the link to the post; it seems that I’ll need to purchase that software when available. Is there currently no way to do that sort of thing with the current version of designer? I’d think there would be…. Then again, I’ve got the scanning probe, so I guess I could always use that to scan one of my own contours and use that….?

[mtylerfl]

Everything that you said makes complete sense to me, thanks for that. I’m looking at the mpc that I used right now and the Cut Path tool isn’t highlighted, so I must have selected the pockets, then chose the bit and inset, and it took it from there as (I’m guessing) as simple rout job.

I did read the article that you linked me to, thanks for that, it’s appreciated. I actually watched your pocket cutting videos over the weekend, because when it comes to actually cutting guitar bodies with the machine, the neck pocket and pickup cavities are pockets. I just figured that I’d start with making some basic guitar building templates out of mdf before I start using it to cut bodies.

Based on what you’re saying about manual tool paths (I got the idea from your pocket videos, actually), I won’t bother with doing that since there’s no real benefit in this application.

Thanks for the link to the post; it seems that I’ll need to purchase that software when available. Is there currently no way to do that sort of thing with the current version of designer? I’d think there would be…. Then again, I’ve got the scanning probe, so I guess I could always use that to scan one of my own contours and use that….?

Hi Sully,

You are making great progress! So glad to have another guitar builder join the ranks - we all marvel at what LG does, so we've got great expectations for you too!

There is not a practical way to achieve the chamfers with the current software release. I suppose one could play around with surfaces and so on, but I don't think you would have the kind of control you would likely need for following the contours of a guitar.

LG will be speaking at the upcoming CW Discover Conference. Perhaps he will demo how he did the chamfer using the new software tools available soon!

Regarding the Scanning Probe...yes, you could certainly scan a guitar body and use that. It will have a slightly textured surface (this is the nature of all touch probes, and is normal), but it's not a big deal - you need to sand anyway, and that will "automatically" remove any undesireable texture. You could also try smoothing in the Pattern Editor to remove much of any texture - don't over do it though - I've seen some items end up looking like melted chocolate when someone goes a little too crazy on the Smooth and/or Blur tools on a scan.