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Thread: 3rd owner of a never used A-model...

  1. #1
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    Default 3rd owner of a never used A-model...

    Ok to start with I really want to take time to thank all of you. This forum is a wonderful resource. And the people I see going out of there way to help newbies like me, makes me glad I purchased this machine. SOO... I answered an ad on Craigslist. Un-"used" Compucarve. I paid $900 for it... Before I discovered this wonderful forum. But no use crying over spilled milk. I have coveted the machine since first viewing. And at that time they were in the $2000 dollar range. So I thought it was a good buy... As usual too good to be true. The reason it was unused, is because it won't work. I have built or repaired a hundred or so computers. And I am a retired Automotive Developmental Technician. Electronic Engine controls were my specialty. So I am a pretty competent at diagnostic routines. Originally I got a close cover error. I proved out both switches with my fluke by pinning out the back of the z board. The switches were working. And in fact the cover was just the first failure. None of the sensors were reading. So after several hours of searching and reading here I eventually traced it to an improperly seated Ribbon cable in the z motor (Thanx Al). Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	52983 I now have working sensors. Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	52988 But anytime the machine calls for movement i immediately get the following error Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	52989. I disassembled and checked every connection I can find. I tried running the user tests for the motors Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
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    And I get to this page Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	52991 but no matter what I do it just goes back to this page Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	52992 I did notice that the controller was warm in a spot when the sensors were dead. I suspect the controller is the problem, but do not know how to prove-out without a test part. Any input will be greatly appreciated! Here are a few pics with more info Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #3
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbert View Post
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    Looking at the last photo - the switch cover/scanning wiring harness looks loose - so press that in if you haven't already.

    Now when you go to the user test option, have you been able to scroll with the up and down arrows to scroll use to the other test (Z, Y, cut motor)?
    If you can test you Z and Y motors, if you get a Z axis stall again more than likely the FFC cable itself is bad, or the Z motor itself may be bad or dust in the encoder.

    I have a cable I can send you if needed. I also have a controller I use for troubleshooting. Controllers run $303 plus shipping so best to make sure that is what it is first.

    And sorry to say, the machine could have had the controller changed once already. When you get a new controller, there are no hours on it. Only way to know for sure is if LHR has a history on the machine.

    Let us know about the other users test and we can go from there.
    Last edited by chief2007; 05-06-2012 at 07:18 AM.

  5. #5

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    I had a z axis stall on my machine for about a month... couldnt clear it at all... finally changed the z motor and it is back running fine. I found if you tried to run a z motor test it would keep saying remove board and bit. Finally spoke to a help desk person and he suggested replacing the z motor and see if that helps. This after I changed the board sensor, which clearly was bad, the fcc cable then finally the z motor. It is amazing to me how precise the directions are for any of the troubleshooting and the forum... You guys are a godsend and I thank you all for your help! Badbert... stick with it ... it will be well worth it in the end! And the people here in the forum are priceless!!!

  6. Default

    If it is still an original "A" machine you should do the z upgrade anyway. It may just correct the problem.

  7. #7
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    From the picture, it looks like that has been done already - Note the position of the wiring harness for the cover switches and scanning probe.

  8. #8
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    So like pointed out above by other users, the "A" unit does have the new 14 pin FSC Cable as seen in photo 4 post 3. The cover switch plugs into the circuit board on the top of the board and the big connector on that board has wings or clips to hold the wire.

    In a earlier picture I see that the Dust Cap on the top FSC Cable is missing... It is a black plastic cap that the FSC cable goes through and extends the holding of the cable about a inch and a half away from the Z Motor. This HOLDS the cable UP and away from catching on a cooling fins of the Y Motor. It is my belief that the same thing happened to THIS machine as happened to ME.... One time I forgot to put that black plastic cap on.... It let the FSC Cable SAG and while under power the FSC cable was torn DOWN and AWAY from the top Z Motor Connector. This Caused a SHORT CIRCUIT as it RIPPED AWAY.... Lucky for me I had a extra Z Motor as the Z was DEAD after that Short... I would get a Z Stall upon starting up. This is since the Z going up and down homing in the startup of the machine is one of the first things it will do. So it is my belief that you or someone SMOKED the Z Motor and the FIX would be to order a Z Motor from LHR and a new 14 pin FSC Cable... ALSO.... Since I am thinking about it.... Pull the FSC cable with the power OFF and COUNT the Wires.... This could be that someone changed the FSC Cable Package of 2 Circuit boards and then put the OLD 18 pin cable back ON..... It would be a FIRST.... But if you didn't know better... A Cable is a Cable.... Beer is Beer.... Coke.. Pepsi... Same SAME... But in this case FIRST count the conductors....

    Now the Board Sensor... Place a sheet of White Copy paper on the board and crank the head down and move the Y over the paper... Now with Options and Sensor Data look at Board Sensor. A Perfect reading would be a 156.... a 90 would be a dirty window either inside or outside. I would order one from LHR too.... The early sensors were not glued and will snap off the LED's.

    OK... Good Luck.... I am in the Shop today printing Fire Tags, you can always call me. My number in 570- Six Eight Five -WOOD.

    Picture shows cap not fully installed.

    AL
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    Last edited by Digitalwoodshop; 05-06-2012 at 11:49 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief2007 View Post
    Looking at the last photo - the switch cover/scanning wiring harness looks loose - so press that in if you haven't already.

    It pulled loose when I moved the wiring to show the latches on the z-pack.

    Now when you go to the user test option, have you been able to scroll with the up and down arrows to scroll use to the other test (Z, Y, cut motor)?
    If you can test you Z and Y motors, if you get a Z axis stall again more than likely the FFC cable itself is bad, or the Z motor itself may be bad or dust in the encoder.

    All of the tests do the same thing. They show the remove bit and then when I press any key it goes back to the test window.


    I have a cable I can send you if needed.

    Greatly appreciated but I did pin the cable out. It is 14 and continuity is good on all pins.

    I also have a controller I use for troubleshooting. Controllers run $303 plus shipping so best to make sure that is what it is first.

    How can I prove out the controller?

    And sorry to say, the machine could have had the controller changed once already. When you get a new controller, there are no hours on it. Only way to know for sure is if LHR has a history on the machine.

    Let us know about the other users test and we can go from there.
    Quote Originally Posted by katec911 View Post
    I had a z axis stall on my machine for about a month... couldnt clear it at all... finally changed the z motor and it is back running fine. I found if you tried to run a z motor test it would keep saying remove board and bit. Finally spoke to a help desk person and he suggested replacing the z motor and see if that helps. This after I changed the board sensor, which clearly was bad, the fcc cable then finally the z motor. It is amazing to me how precise the directions are for any of the troubleshooting and the forum... You guys are a godsend and I thank you all for your help! Badbert... stick with it ... it will be well worth it in the end! And the people here in the forum are priceless!!!
    Couldn't agree more! And I am a long way from giving up!

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryT View Post
    If it is still an original "A" machine you should do the z upgrade anyway. It may just correct the problem.
    Z-Pack has been done.

    Quote Originally Posted by chief2007 View Post
    From the picture, it looks like that has been done already - Note the position of the wiring harness for the cover switches and scanning probe.
    You are correct sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalwoodshop View Post
    So like pointed out above by other users, the "A" unit does have the new 14 pin FSC Cable as seen in photo 4 post 3. The cover switch plugs into the circuit board on the top of the board and the big connector on that board has wings or clips to hold the wire.

    In a earlier picture I see that the Dust Cap on the top FSC Cable is missing... It is a black plastic cap that the FSC cable goes through and extends the holding of the cable about a inch and a half away from the Z Motor. This HOLDS the cable UP and away from catching on a cooling fins of the Y Motor. It is my belief that the same thing happened to THIS machine as happened to ME.... One time I forgot to put that black plastic cap on.... It let the FSC Cable SAG and while under power the FSC cable was torn DOWN and AWAY from the top Z Motor Connector. This Caused a SHORT CIRCUIT as it RIPPED AWAY.... Lucky for me I had a extra Z Motor as the Z was DEAD after that Short... I would get a Z Stall upon starting up. This is since the Z going up and down homing in the startup of the machine is one of the first things it will do. So it is my belief that you or someone SMOKED the Z Motor and the FIX would be to order a Z Motor from LHR and a new 14 pin FSC Cable... ALSO.... Since I am thinking about it.... Pull the FSC cable with the power OFF and COUNT the Wires.... This could be that someone changed the FSC Cable Package of 2 Circuit boards and then put the OLD 18 pin cable back ON..... It would be a FIRST.... But if you didn't know better... A Cable is a Cable.... Beer is Beer.... Coke.. Pepsi... Same SAME... But in this case FIRST count the conductors....

    I removed the cover during inspection and for photos. It is 14 pins and I pinned it out all leads have continuity. The cable was pulled out a little this caused all sensors to be inop and the controller was warm (possible short). Is there a manual way that i can test the z motor?

    Now the Board Sensor... Place a sheet of White Copy paper on the board and crank the head down and move the Y over the paper... Now with Options and Sensor Data look at Board Sensor. A Perfect reading would be a 156.... a 90 would be a dirty window either inside or outside. I would order one from LHR too.... The early sensors were not glued and will snap off the LED's.

    I have not done the white paper part. But it does react when I move my hand under it.

    OK... Good Luck.... I am in the Shop today printing Fire Tags, you can always call me. My number in 570- Six Eight Five -WOOD.

    Picture shows cap not fully installed.

    Sorry I do not understand, Cap? And I would be honored to call you. Unfortunately I only get time to play, after my other work is done. Usually late at night, and I would never call someone that late!

    AL
    Thank you all so much for your help! I know we can get it working And I am a very patient man... I am really looking for a way to manually check the controller and the motors. I do not believe the controller has been changed, simply because the machine was SPOTLESS when I purchased it. You could not clean it this well. The dust you see is from being in my shop. The cover still has the protector on it. And the bits were unopened.

  10. #10
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    Start at the USER test option. Use the up and down arrows to scroll to the Z motor test, the Y motor, and the X motor test. Test each one of these

    If none of these work it is most likely the controller. If they work with exception of the Z motor, then the z motor is bad.

    For us users, and I may be wrong, but about the only way to test the controller is via the user tests or changing it out with one that is good (why I found and bought a spare).

    Al and company please chime in is there is another way - I would like that info as well.

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