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Thread: horrible accuracy issues + bit question

  1. #1

    Default horrible accuracy issues + bit question

    Hello,
    I bought a used, upgraded machine from some guy who claimed to be an LHR tech, it came with rubber belts, carvetight chuch, probe, most recent software/firmware and even LHR invoice. within 2 hours i started getting RPM sensor errors and had that replaced as the guy would not answer any emails regarding support he supposedly offered. regardless. Now that i got a little more experience with the machine i noticed a horrible, yet almost deliberate precision issue. it seems most noticeable on the inside square/rectangle cuts/routs. as soon as the cutter head changes direction from x to y axis (both away and towards the panel) it seems at about 3/8 of an inch to move in slightly (x-axis move) towards the inside of the figure being cut and its being consistent. for example: if i had four of the same mirrored figures the same "error" would occur in all of them, however its consistency would not be mirrored. please see attached pictures for better explanation. Also, all the interior corners would not be of the same radius either (not mirrored as well but identical along specific turns in each figure). it almost seems as if depending on which turn it took (x to y and y to x) they were they were out of sync while turning, but repeat exactly the same in each figure cut. has anyone experienced anything like this before? i spent a few hours scouring the forum, but had not found anything similar.

    On the topic of bits. i just broke my 1/16 cutter and noticed that carvewright does not offer the 1/16 cutter bit for sale anymore. i was going to purchase one of Ron's adapters (1/2 to 1/, but need a source for bits. does anyone know of alternative sources?

    All your help is greatly appreciated, thanks!

    Greg


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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    NE PA USA
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    9,898

    Default

    Greg,

    Looks like I am your answer to your Midnight East coast posting...

    Sorry about your RPM Error but if you get a Check Cut Motor 30 seconds into a project first bit.... well WE all get it.... OR most of us do from time to time.... Press enter and off it goes... I have my Theories as to why.... But nothing solid... WE live with it....

    I am betting the issues you see are part equipment and part Pilot Error.... The Equipment Side could be the Y Bearings in the Gear Box are going bad.... How many Cut Motor Hours? That will tell the story.. About 450 then replace the bearings... Lots of posts on the size... Use the "Y Bearings" with the " " on each side to let Search Work.

    Next is the 7 inch rule of Wood.... Reading all the Tips and Tricks and knowing or thinking like a machine when the board is NOT under 2 rollers it can pop UP snapping your bit.... Like riding a bike with 1 hand.... Works Great until..... Next is Using Masking Tape on the bottom of the board at the brass roller to let a Rack and Pinion be formed in the soft tape. The Brass Roller loosing contact with the bottom of the board is also where your broken bits come from... The board drives until the Brass Roller numbers are correct and if the board has lost contact with the brass roller will keep moving the X snapping the bit with the same gear train that has the power to move a 12 foot board.... We call this problem "Pilot Error".

    The next is trying to HOG out too much with the bit..... Be Conservative... Use Depth of Cut..... The harder the Wood the harder it is to cut by the bit.... The machine has a feed RATE that is setup for Pine.... That looks like HARDWOOD.... You need to be more Conservative with Oak... Use Best Quality to slow down the feed rate.... Using lesser quality and the machine hogs out the cut quickly in lesser quality... Yes, it takes longer..... but it slows the machine down...

    So go and do your homework and read all the Tips and Tricks and see what you learn about setting up your project on a Sled or Carrier Board to make better use of the wood and the Sled or Carrier having the extra 4 inches on each end to always stay under the rollers...

    And with the hardwood you are doing a Cut Path.... Limit the depth to something like .2 or less.... I use .27 for pine... Never break bits....

    Your Y error could just be the Feed Rate too.... Just TOO fast for the Cutting Bit to clear a path....

    Welcome and Good Luck,

    AL

    Looking closer at your pictures.... The Carve Region looks the same for the left and right area.. How did you draw them? With lines?

    I am with Ask Bud who will chime in here in the next few hours... and ASK.... Post your .MPC.... We want to see how you setup your processes... That could be part of the problem.....

    AL
    Last edited by Digitalwoodshop; 04-28-2011 at 02:01 AM.
    Favorite Saying.... "It's ALL About the Brass Roller"..... And "Use MASKING TAPE" for board skipping in the X or breaking bits.

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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Indian Lake, Ohio - Rts 33 & 235
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    3,972

    Default

    Right On Al!

    I've send a PM to LHR to see what happened to the ordering page for Carbide bits. The 1/16" Cutting Bit seems to be lost. I'll bet it will be back soon!
    AskBud
    AskBud Downloads =>> CLICK HERE
    Lesson added
    7/15/2012 Titles begin with "2D-3D Build a Pattern-Part-3"

    CW Vacuum Head Project =>> CLICK HERE
    AskBud Home Page =>> CLICK HERE <<=PC lessons or CW lessons

    More than 1250 AskBud patterns
    vvv-CLICK BELOW-vvv
    http://store.carvewright.com/manufac...ufacturerid=29

  4. #4

    Default

    Thanks for the reply Al, Bud,

    I am using a sled that is about 18" long, by 10" wide and 1.25 deep with masking tape on both sides and always select stay under rollers. I use splints and hot glue to hold the project board in the sled and it seems to keep it in place quite well. i clean the machine thoroughly after every project. i found out that attaching a small toner collector vacuum to the muffler hole pretty much eliminates the RPM errors, however i rarely still get them when cutting poplar. the wood in pictures is oak and i set the depth of cut for all cuts via the control panel on the machine at .125 per pass, but im not sure if project designer overrides it as i usually let the machine run its course as im doing something else. I know it takes a few passes to cut a 1/4" board to size during control panel issued operations (cut, miter, etc.). I also noticed that on some projects, when routing takes a few passes, it does not precisely go over the same spot; you can see how many passes it took by the tool marks on the finished piece. i usually cut the projects at "best" setting. the inner square in this project is created by carving out the middle and then routing the perimeter of the carve region. the rest are rectangles, squares, lines with all vertices manually attached at same exact lengths to the board ends/centers (attachments removed prior to cutting). MPC of this particular project in the pictures is attached. When the machine was refurbished the counters were reset so i really dont know how many actual hours are on it. how do i check if the bearings need service, and wouldn't that cause random "off-course events" instead of at precise lengths of cut after changing direction from x to y? BTW, the bit broke because of my mistake. somehow i missed insert carving not cutting 1/16 bit, so it was not caused by the machine going haywire.

    While i have your attention, is there a way to attach one vertex to another so that if i move one object in the project others would follow its vertices? im not talking about resize of project as a whole but for example if i were to move or change length of the line with drill holes at its ends (as in the mpc attached), is there a way to attach drill hole centers to the ends of the line and have them follow adjustments of the line aspects?

    thanks!
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Indian Lake, Ohio - Rts 33 & 235
    Posts
    3,972

    Default analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by jerryherb View Post
    Thanks for the reply Al, Bud,

    I am using a sled that is about 18" long, by 10" wide and 1.25 deep with masking tape on both sides and always select stay under rollers. I use splints and hot glue to hold the project board in the sled and it seems to keep it in place quite well. i clean the machine thoroughly after every project. i found out that attaching a small toner collector vacuum to the muffler hole pretty much eliminates the RPM errors, however i rarely still get them when cutting poplar. the wood in pictures is oak and i set the depth of cut for all cuts via the control panel on the machine at .125 per pass, but I'm not sure if project designer overrides it as i usually let the machine run its course as I'm doing something else. I know it takes a few passes to cut a 1/4" board to size during control panel issued operations (cut, miter, etc.). I also noticed that on some projects, when routing takes a few passes, it does not precisely go over the same spot; you can see how many passes it took by the tool marks on the finished piece. i usually cut the projects at "best" setting. the inner square in this project is created by carving out the middle and then routing the perimeter of the carve region. the rest are rectangles, squares, lines with all vertices manually attached at same exact lengths to the board ends/centers (attachments removed prior to cutting). MPC of this particular project in the pictures is attached. When the machine was refurbished the counters were reset so i really dont know how many actual hours are on it. how do i check if the bearings need service, and wouldn't that cause random "off-course events" instead of at precise lengths of cut after changing direction from x to y? BTW, the bit broke because of my mistake. somehow i missed insert carving not cutting 1/16 bit, so it was not caused by the machine going haywire.

    While i have your attention, is there a way to attach one vertex to another so that if i move one object in the project others would follow its vertices? I'm not talking about resize of project as a whole but for example if i were to move or change length of the line with drill holes at its ends (as in the mpc attached), is there a way to attach drill hole centers to the ends of the line and have them follow adjustments of the line aspects?

    thanks!
    Jerry,
    First, let's reconsider the hot glue as your holding device. It does not seem secure enough, unless the pocket in your sled exactly fits the project stock. My "Download" link, below, has a lesson on a Multi-Use Sled that may give you ideas for a better, or additional, holding method.

    Second, you should be setting your MAX-Pass-Depth in Designer, not at the machine. The MPC takes control!

    Last, At this point there is no way to attach one vector to another as you would like.

    My guess is that the stress on the 1/16 cutting bit may go away with my 2nd point, and the rethinking of point #1 may help as well.

    let us know how you make out.
    AskBud
    AskBud Downloads =>> CLICK HERE
    Lesson added
    7/15/2012 Titles begin with "2D-3D Build a Pattern-Part-3"

    CW Vacuum Head Project =>> CLICK HERE
    AskBud Home Page =>> CLICK HERE <<=PC lessons or CW lessons

    More than 1250 AskBud patterns
    vvv-CLICK BELOW-vvv
    http://store.carvewright.com/manufac...ufacturerid=29

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by AskBud View Post
    Right On Al!

    I've send a PM to LHR to see what happened to the ordering page for Carbide bits. The 1/16" Cutting Bit seems to be lost. I'll bet it will be back soon!
    AskBud

    The 1/16" cutting bit is temporarily out of stock. We will get them back on the store as soon as we have them.
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  7. #7

    Default

    The way you layout in designer and build sleds is important. Why people continue to layout a MPC without including the sled layout is part of the issue. Building a sled with small end blocks will snap bits.

  8. #8

    Default

    the sled does have a pocket just a tad bigger than project board and at the depth flush with it. the hot glue and wood splints hold it in there well ( i need to use a hammer and a dull chisel to get tho board out after its done cutting (cut finger holes all the way through the sled to help push it out and the fingers alone cant get the board out after the hot glue cures). I will look at your sled lesson, however i had no issues thus far with the board getting dislodged. i will set the depth in the designer and cut another one of these in "optimal mode" once i get a replacement bit and share the results. however, i dont think its going to resolve the issue. has anyone looked at the MPC to see if there is anything that would cause the wierdness im experiencing prior to ripping the machine open to replace the bearings? thanks!

  9. #9

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    yes I just looked at it and I also looked at Buds sled.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Indian Lake, Ohio - Rts 33 & 235
    Posts
    3,972

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jerryherb View Post
    the sled does have a pocket just a tad bigger than project board and at the depth flush with it. the hot glue and wood splints hold it in there well ( i need to use a hammer and a dull chisel to get tho board out after its done cutting (cut finger holes all the way through the sled to help push it out and the fingers alone cant get the board out after the hot glue cures). I will look at your sled lesson, however i had no issues thus far with the board getting dislodged. i will set the depth in the designer and cut another one of these in "optimal mode" once i get a replacement bit and share the results. however, i dont think its going to resolve the issue. has anyone looked at the MPC to see if there is anything that would cause the wierdness im experiencing prior to ripping the machine open to replace the bearings? thanks!
    If, after you make your MPC setting changes the problem still exists, I would delete the cutting bit rectangle that cleans your carve area. I suspect that it is the source of any other problem (not the machine).
    AskBud
    AskBud Downloads =>> CLICK HERE
    Lesson added
    7/15/2012 Titles begin with "2D-3D Build a Pattern-Part-3"

    CW Vacuum Head Project =>> CLICK HERE
    AskBud Home Page =>> CLICK HERE <<=PC lessons or CW lessons

    More than 1250 AskBud patterns
    vvv-CLICK BELOW-vvv
    http://store.carvewright.com/manufac...ufacturerid=29

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