Rock Chuck vs. Carve tight? in the need of an upgrade

[Sallen1215]

Im in the need of upgrading a machine im buying that has the QC on it. The machine would come with several QC bits and i know that the CT you have to abandon the old bits for the new press fit bushings, but it looks as though the RC i can just use the old bits in the new chuck. im new at this so if anyone can help a young carver out i would appreciate it.


Stephen

[Kenm810]

I'm very happy with the Rock Chucks and their Sleeves for now, they fit every Bit I've been using,
including the few Bits I have with pressed on sleeves

[AskBud]

Im in the need of upgrading a machine im buying that has the QC on it. The machine would come with several QC bits and i know that the CT you have to abandon the old bits for the new press fit bushings, but it looks as though the RC i can just use the old bits in the new chuck. im new at this so if anyone can help a young carver out i would appreciate it.
Stephen

Stephen,
Most of the bits have steel shanks and may be used in the new CT Assembly (chuck).

The current LHR exception(s) are the 1/16" & 3/16" Carving Bits, as well as the 1/8" Cutting Bit, which have a Carbide shank. Their findings are that the carbide will not allow for enough compression to firmly hold the bit in place. Therefore, LHR has placed a pressed on sleeve on these bits.
AskBud

[DocWheeler]

Stephen,

Like KenM810, I have one of Ron's chucks (a fellow Buckeye) and like it.

There are a few things to consider. As Bud said, the CW chuck does not hold carbide shanks (CW says that no chuck does). The CW chuck requires sleeves on some bits that are not re-usable I believe (extra expense). The CW chuck is lighter (a little less wear?) The CW chuck requires two wrenches I think.

The Rock is heaver and longer (the length can cause problems if you chuck a long bit in wrong). The Rock tightens to all shanks (I've never had a problem). The Rock uses one hex wrench. If the bit has a flat spot machined into it and you position that flat spot incorrectly you might create a burr on the innards of the chuck that you would need to file off.

I hope that this helps.

[AskBud]

Stephen,

Like KenM810, I have one of Ron's chucks (a fellow Buckeye) and like it.

There are a few things to consider. As Bud said, the CW chuck does not hold carbide shanks (CW says that no chuck does). The CW chuck requires sleeves on some bits that are not re-usable I believe (extra expense). The CW chuck is lighter (a little less wear?) The CW chuck requires two wrenches I think.

The Rock is heaver and longer (the length can cause problems if you chuck a long bit in wrong). The Rock tightens to all shanks (I've never had a problem). The Rock uses one hex wrench. If the bit has a flat spot machined into it and you position that flat spot incorrectly you might create a burr on the innards of the chuck that you would need to file off.

I hope that this helps.

The CarveTight Assembly "CT" (chuck) has a 1/2" opening to accept the 1/2" shank bits, and accepts a Split Collet for the 1/4" shank bits The split collet has a 1/4" inside and a 1/2" outside. One or two split collets are all you really need, as you may change them to each bit or the probe as necessary.

The replacement assembly needs, and includes, only one wrench to do the every day operation. This is a 4mm "T" handle allen wrench.
There is , also, a flat wrench to adjust the movable roller bearings which will get little usage under normal conditions.
AskBud

[lawrence]

I have a Rock chuck and LOVE IT. I bought it before the Carvetight came out so I didn't have a choice when I made my decision. If I were buying again today I'm not 100% sure which I would buy. One part of me wants to support LHR to keep the lights on etc etc while another part of me gets ticked off anytime I feel like a company is pushing me into buying proprietary parts just because they want to make another buck off of me.

The thing regarding the slippage of carbide in collets made my machinist friend laugh so hard that he almost fell over-- he's been working with high speed collets and carbide for many many years and he says "anyone that thinks that this is a real and true concern should give him a call because he's got some bridges to sell them" According to him there is always SOME slippage over many many many revolutions but that this is such a remote occurance in most industrial situations that it is not even a consideration and that this is for industrial machines that run all day... only stopping to change out worn bits.

All this being said... the carvetight appears to be a significant improvement over the old QC and the carvewright C version appears to have some other improvements over the B version--even with a rock chuck. If you think there is a chance you will have to send the machine in for service in the future (and who doesn't) I can't help but think that the "C" version will future proof your purchase somewhat... who knows how much longer parts/etc will be available for the old versions (though Sears usually has a pretty good record for keeping parts available for quite some time after a product is discontinued, it is evidently up to the manufacturer to decide how long they will provide parts)

I also don't think that Ron makes his living from selling Rock Chuck items-- I could be wrong about this but can't help but think that he makes a few bucks but probably mostly created the Rock chuck to provide us with a better alternative to the QC and because he saw an opening in a very small market. On the other hand I get the inkling that LHR may be holding on by the skin of their teeth sometimes-though I mostly blame their past business model on their peril--their product is a good one. LHR has also been MUCH better about reacting quickly to many customer concerns (free software upgrades, free demos of pay upgrades, EXCELLENT telephone service etc) They have a large mountain of past bumfuzzledness to overcome though, and I hope it isn't too late. Things like the Carvewright conference etc will only continue to make the customer base stronger and better informed and this does give me some hope.

I love my Rock-- if I were doing it again though-out of fear of lack of support for B version parts in the future, I'd probably buy a carvetight upgrade- but I am looking into having my friend press out/in new bits so that I can buy and reuse the carvetight sleeves.

You'll be able to sell the old bits here on the forum without any problem (as long as you don't charge $12 to ship a single bit)

Lawrence

[henry1]

I'm very happy with the Rock Chucks and their Sleeves for now, they fit every Bit I've been using,
including the few Bits I have with pressed on sleeves

I also love my Rock Chuck and never had a problem I just ordered some bits from him they work great and he only charge 6.00 to ship go figure

[bergerud]

Has anyone compared the run out on these chucks? The Rock threads onto the QC spindle. Is Carve Tight one part with the spindle or does it also thread onto the same old spindle? Which one is heavier? I would be interested in knowing these things if I was going to buy one or the other.

[lynnfrwd]

The CarveTight is one solid piece from where the flexshaft inserts to where the bit inserts.

I don't know about the Rock Chuck.

[AskBud]

Has anyone compared the run out on these chucks? The Rock threads onto the QC spindle. Is Carve Tight one part with the spindle or does it also thread onto the same old spindle? Which one is heavier? I would be interested in knowing these things if I was going to buy one or the other.

To use the Rock Chuck, you unscrew the QuickChange (QC) chuck and thread on the Rock.
You will remove any run-out inherent in your QC. However, if you also have an imbalance of bad bearings on your QC spindle, that will still exist.

The CarveTight (CT) Assembly is a new housing, new bearings, and a combined spindle and chuck assembly.

In my opinion, if you have had lots of QC related problems your problems may well require more than just a new chuck (Rock or QC) to assure full repair. I've replaced both of the QC, on my units, with the CT Assembly and have had no further major problems due to run-out or vibration.
AskBud