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Thread: Bit plunging into board.

  1. #1

    Default Bit plunging into board.

    Have a compucarve that has been more trouble than not over the years. Have about 50hrs carve time, but only about 8 of that resulted in finished projects. More often than not the machine has some issue and craps out. When I first got it I had serious trouble with the quick change, to the point that it could take 15-30mins or more to get a bit out, and sometimes I just gave up. After talking to support a bunch of times, they finally sent me a new quickchange. It was better but has still had issues at times. After that I had a few bad carves that turned out to be the result of slipping traction belts cause the head pressure was not right. When that was fixed I started getting a lot of axis errors.

    At this point I was fed up and wanted to return it for a replacement, but it was too late. I had tried to make it work for too long and could not return it and the warrenty was over. I usually only had a couple hours at a shot of free time and often worked during the hours support was open. So while I blame carvewright for the crappy machine, I do blame myself for getting stuck with it.

    Over the years I once in a while pull it out and try something, convinced somehow that this time I will get it to work. Now and then I have gotten something out of it, but usually only if its small or a short run. More often it stops in the midst of a carve and gives an error, which does not repeat. As in I got different errors, not always the same one. This made calls to support just frustrating as they wanted to treat each one as a separate issue, but since the error wouldn't repeat, they figured it 'was working now' each time we ran a test and did not get the same error. Sometimes the machine stops and when I look the carve is only part way done, and the machine is just sitting at the main menu. I have even had the power line load tested, then borrowed a monster of a UPS unit from the server farm and had it do the 'stop and drop to main menu' thing even while on the UPS. So the results of my time with the machine are usually just a few wasted pieces of wood and a bunch of my time wasted.

    The guys in the forums were always helpful. Or I should say, were always very willing to try to help, but nothing suggested ever helped. It was suggested I send the machine in to Carvewright, but by that point I just did not have the cash to drop several hundred more dollars ($150 in shipping alone) into a machine that never worked over using it to buy wood or tools for other interests. Especially since lots of people were also still having issues with new machines at that point, indicating to me that even if it was fixed it likely would die again.

    I tell you all this not to bitch, as I said it was my own fault I waited too long to return it. I just tell you so you kinda get that I have lots of time invested and am not a quitter, for what thats worth. Oh and that I'm a wee bit frustrated. (

    I pulled it out again recently once again with foolish idea of getting it to work this time. I popped in a simple design (just centerline words and a circle cut out around them to make a disk) and set it running. It plunged the 60deg bit deep into the wood. By the time I managed to realize what was happening and reached the stop button (it did not stall on its own, unbelievably. With how many times it stalled before, the first time I needed it to stall and it didn't, ugh!) I heard crunching and after checking it out found it had indeed ripped teeth off the X-drive gears.

    I beat myself up for what I assumed was putting in the wrong bit at the wrong time. I ordered another set of gears and installed them. Started up the project again and watched with finger on the stop button. Sure enough it did the same thing. I hit stop. So figuring maybe my project was screwed up, I set up a new one, with nothing but the word test in centerline. Made sure there was nothing else in the carve list and that it was set to use the 60deg bit. Just for good measure I formated the card, force it to reload firmware, and uploaded just the new project and started it up again. Same thing.

    Here is what happened. I turned on the machine and go through the menu to carve the project. It homes, then measures the board (measurements seem correct). The board is a little bigger than plan so I tell it to not scale and to carve on end. It asks which vector bit, I choose 60deg, and install the bit. It does its little dance with the bit, touching the board and the side, then goes over to the pop out bar and touches that a couple times. I watched to be sure it is touching next to the board and then that the bar is popping out properly and it is in fact touching the bar each time. It then starts to carve. As it moves the head from the number pad side of the machine to the center of the board where it should start cutting the bit is low enough that it cuts into the board a bit. When it gets to where it should start carving it plunges the bit into the board again. I hit stop.

    The head moves freely. The sensors all seem fine. The pop out bar thing is popping out and it is touching it with the bit. The belts are all clean, etc.

    Searched the forum for a while for 'plunging bit' and z-truck issues, but don't see any like mine.
    Anyone have any ideas?

    The .mpc and a pic of the result are attached.
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	41660testing.mpc

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Houston Area
    Posts
    102

    Default

    What is the temp in your shop? Are the trucks well lubed and cleaned? Is your head pressure good?
    Make sure your bearings in the QC are clean and balanced.
    Old Trainers never die, The tape just doesn't sitck anymore!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Louisburg, KS
    Posts
    2,651

    Default

    QC's installed properly, and tight? Bit's not loose in the adapter? Set screws tight, and set with blue loc-tite?
    Last edited by cnsranch; 01-27-2011 at 12:01 PM.
    Livin' Life
    Lovin' My Carvewright

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Missouri Valley Iowa
    Posts
    669

    Default

    Sounds like Zpack problems
    Check out service documentation.
    new z pack with new cable should help.
    you can ck to see if dust is in back of motor by removing black cover
    hope this wil help
    OLD SALT

    Member CarveWright Start U team

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    NE PA USA
    Posts
    9,984

    Default

    Do you know if you have the 18 pin FFC Cable or the new 14 pin FFC Cable... The FFC Cable is the flat cable to the Z Head. Sounds as if when the head is in the retract mode or lifting the head it is not getting the signals to the head or only some of the signals... The Fix.... First would be to replace the 14 pin FFC Cable the most common reason for this.... If you have the 18 pin then order a 14 pin Z Bundle with Motor, Cable and Circuit Board.

    If the head misses a retract signal then the next NORMAL down signal drives the head into the board.... So it is a retract signal that is missing... Bad FFC Cable... Broken wire.... OR a Bad Z Motor.... OR a bad Computer Driver Transistor... A $300.00 fix.... hope not....

    You can always call me if you get stuck.... My number is on the bottom of webpage.

    Know if you have the 18 or 14 pin before you order. The 18 pin is no longer available and sometimes a tech will not ask you how many pins you have believing everyone now has 14 pins... IF you install the thicker Wire 14 pin into the jacks for the 18 pins then a short circuit will result and as I had seen posted twice last year.... It toasted the computer..... In my picture I have 16 pins... my error... it's 18 pins...

    AL
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC06680_WEB.jpg  
    Last edited by Digitalwoodshop; 01-27-2011 at 01:47 PM.
    Favorite Saying.... "It's ALL About the Brass Roller"..... And "Use MASKING TAPE" for board skipping in the X or breaking bits.

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  6. #6

    Default

    QC's installed properly, and tight? Bit's not loose in the adapter? Set screws tight, and set with blue loc-tite?
    Yep, triple checked it. With all the issues with the adapter in the begining, its something I always over check.

    What is the temp in your shop? Are the trucks well lubed and cleaned? Is your head pressure good?
    Make sure your bearings in the QC are clean and balanced.
    Temp is around 65deg. Was warmer by maybe 10 deg when it happened the first time (before new gears). Trucks are all cleaned and lubed. Did that before this happened the first time since it had been sitting for a while, and then again while I had it apart to put in the gears. Head presure is correct, also something I learned to check due to issues with it in the past. QC is clean and operating smoothly. I did not think to check balance before since not sure how that would cause it to plunge when it should be barely touching the board, but since you suggested it, I set a machinist's dial indicator on the bit so when you first put in the bit and it spins a little it touches it, and there does not appear to be any play as it spins, so it seems balanced.

    Sounds like Zpack problems. Check out service documentation. New z pack with new cable should help.
    You can check to see if dust is in back of motor by removing black cover
    It may well be. Would rather figure out if that is definately the case before spending the $.
    No dust in the back, it was all cleaned out real good when I had the case apart for the x-drive.


    Do you know if you have the 18 pin FFC Cable or the new 14 pin FFC Cable
    I do not. I will look into this.

    I can pull the cable and test it with a meter.
    Is there any way to test the Zpack motor & controler. Hate to spend the $ on them and find that wasn't it.


    Thanks for all the ideas guys. The only really good part about this machine over time has been the community of you guys. Thanks.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Nuevo, CA
    Posts
    1,854

    Default

    While you are working on it I would strongly recoment you change to the CT and chuck the QC! I moved fast enough and Sears replkaced my first machine and gave me a refund on the seccond, so I bought a tricked out referb from LHR just before the "C" came out. It has rubber belts and the CT - and no unsolvable problems (solve by cleaning and lubing).
    Clint

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