Jack's Pattern Website Thread

[PCW]

Well I have been following this tread and I guess what made a lot of people think twice was Johnny announced the new site on his first post to the forum. I feel what Johnny is doing is good thing by organizing the cluttered mess that we have created, and maybe it's something LHR should be doing but heck I can see their thinking as well if someone else want to do it why not.

I suspect that we will lose some of our better pattern makers due to the controversy and that will affect the forum as a whole. It would be nice if LHR would do something on the software side that would protect the patterns from infringements (they are the ones in full control).

As far as a rating system I think it would also be a bad idea. If you look at a pattern in designer software you can tell how it will carve and no need to rate a person work.

Definitely a double edge sword, and just hope we don't get cut.

[liquidguitars]

I feel what Johnny is doing is good thing by organizing the cluttered mess that we have created, and maybe it's something LHR should be doing but heck I can see their thinking as well if someone else want to do it why not.

Lynn has opened up the pattern category's now... I realy don't have a major issue overall and the Internet has a way sorting it's self out. Maybe he could donate the money he raises on our patterns back to the community..

[Ike]

I am going to say my peace! I share patterns when I can and I encourage others to do the same. Not to take money from the commercial pattern makers, but it help those who do not have the money or did not find what they were looking for! Recently I saw a pattern I made used that ruined the project and really made me feel bad. I take it seriously and understand the concept garbage in, garbage out! So rating the patterns will not make me do better..... quite the opposite!

I am a bit put off not having a choice or even offered a choice of wanting a non CW pattern site. I don't mean the choice of being belittled for not wanting our patterns in the site! I mean doing what Doug did with the CD and taking a poll. Of course we are continually being told of how the majority of the forum is trilled and so happy! So I am sure it would have been approved! The thing I don't recall anybody asking for the site? I do recall it being volunteered. Volunteered to start, maintain and fund the site.

Then 3 members(really more then 3) names never mentioned, but like Brandon said, "we all just didn't fall off the turnip truck!' we know who it was directed towards! These same people who without fail are there for us with "FREE" patterns we need! Patterns that are of high quality I only wish I could make.

I appreciate all the pattern makers from the members who sell us patterns way below what they are really worth to the members who share and ask nothing in return! That's what makes this forum so great! I looked forward to who needed help and seeing if I could help, by advice help finding answers or patterns to even needing to talk! However these days I find myself not wanting to visit the forum.

Wow it is pretty sad how it doesn't seem like anybody cares we will be losing the few free patterns makers who contributed the most patterns! It has been fun while it lasted I will miss the community...

PS if anybody is interested in contacting me please PM and I will give you my e-mail address. I have removed all my patterns from the forum and will not be posting anymore. Nor do I want anymore of my patterns in the website. I am taking a break from the forum.

[PCW]

Lynn has opened up the pattern category's now... I realy don't have a major issue overall and the Internet has a way sorting it's self out. Maybe he could donate the money he raises on our patterns back to the community..

I know LG but when someone uploads a pattern it should be required that there be relevant name accompanied by a jpg. Lynn is doing a fine job but what about what's already here. To get the pattern sharing tread strait it will be a big undertaking. We created a mess. <smile>

Hell maybe hire Jonny....

[Jonny]

Lets all stop for a minute. Consider the facts. Just the facts, not our individual perceptions. The concept of straightening out the "paperclip" is a good idea. No one can dispute that. Having high quality previews of patterns, good searchability, these are good things. All I did was take this a step farther, hack an open-source photo gallery script, and trim it all out to deliver patterns from YOU to YOU.

A month ago, while being reunited with my teenage son Matthew (after 8 years totally apart), I showed him the machine, then we scrambled to find something for him to carve. We browsed together through the paperclip, back and forth, wasting about 2 hours. That wasn't the catalyst for me as I'd thought many times before about doing something with the patterns in the "paperclip", but it was the straw that broke the camel's back. My son and I talked last week on the phone, and after looking at CWPatterns.com, he has a list of things to carve. Without fanfare, without having to trudge through zips, he found what he wanted, and that's how the site works.

To the few naysayers: Come on. I've spent about $600.00 so far, cash, working on this project. THAT'S what the donation link is for. Personally, I have over 100 hours involved. That's ONE HUNDRED HOURS. Tack on the dozens of hours that others have taking screenshots, and you've got yourself a real job. None of us care about that, but cash is cash. My first post outlines the possible donations. Get past it, don't donate, whatever. If, by some miracle, more money comes in than went out, we'll have a raffle for free bits, donate to charity, work with LHR to doa giveaway, something. I'm NOT trying to PROFIT from the donations. I've had a blast working on this, listening to you all, and making something that can be a USEFUL tool for all of us. This is to be an ONGOING thing, and as we add features, sometimes it will cost money. If the paperclip works for a few of you, great. But the rest of us, the VAST majority, want to be able to use tools that are STANDARD in 2011. Search, browse, view before you install, and have it all quick fast and now.

Be reasonable folks. This has been beaten long enough. BJB if you don't like it, don't go there, don't post patterns on the fourms, whatever makes you happy. I'd hate to see anyone, ANYONE at all, you BJB or anyone else, disengage from participation simply because they see someone's patterns copied to a database for the same people to use, but seriously man, don't try to drag us all down. You've got the wrong idea. Plain and simple. LG, what can I do to get yoiu to bury this hatchet of animosity? You clearly have some issue. What is it? Explain yourself in detail so we may address it openly. I hope we can get it all out, because God knows I'd love to chat about how you get those swim-in-me finishes on those guitars.

So far, 3 people have donated a total of $60.00. That's awesome, and it shows that a lot of people really do appreciate and like the site. Most donate buttons are dead links that never, EVER see a click. Thanks so much to everyone for such a great hobby, such consideration, and for the collective passion and drive that make this *&#$^*&@^&$$% machine what it is.

[eelamb]

I have been sitting here for about 47 minutes, thinking of what I wanted to say. I am told if I do not want patterns I make on a private web site do not post them here. Ok I will not post patterns I make here anymore. Jonny I hope you are a man of your word when you say email you and you will remove patterns I have created. There are still quite a few currently on your site that are mine. I will send you a list, and I will monitor the site for awhile and inform you when patterns of mine is listed. Last count I have made about 150 patterns, some good soom really bad, and the community stood by me through them all, accepting the good along with the bad, thank you. All I ask is if you know you have a pattern made by me, please do not post it here.

[judgejrt]

WAITING ON BANK CONFIRMATION ON NEW PAYPAL ACCT., IF YOU WILL E-MAIL ME AN ADDRESS I will mail you a donation JUDGEJRT@YAHOO.COM APPECIATE WHAT YOUR DOING

[bjbethke]

Somehow I do not think we all just fell off the turnip cart here, BJB has donated a ton of patterns over the years I have a feeling the he probably will think twice now as will I. Why? well now that Lynn has category's for patterns I consider moving our "freeware MPC's" as not necessary. I like to also state that John telling us how hard it is to build a website over and over does not make me feel any better. It's nice to visit a place that has options.. but it's also natural to protect the community from spam or redirection. lets be honest if Johny made the patterns himself we would not be having any reservations.

I really want to thank you for this message and your insight to the turnip!!! Most of my patterns might be gourds, but I have now purchased a program named LightWave 8, I downloaded all the videos, and then my Computer Crashed…. I can not afford the 10 version yet. But I do have the 4 CD’s so I truly own that program. Now I need to make my Arkansas fiddle, making the thing is easy, learning how to make a true noise with it that Jesus would like may be some more learning. Can you play the things you make???
Up and running now, BJB

[liquidguitars]

Lightwave is one of the oldest 3D program made.. it started on the Amiga platform in the 80's all of the vfx's work on B5, Star trek starting with Ds9 and Voyager, Enterprise, Battlestar galactica, firefly just to name a few was rendered and animated relavent to patternmakers 3D modeled.
so building a true 3D violin is not that hard.. yes I play the instruments I make, I know exactly what I want in playability and the tone department..


here is a rendering I made in lightwave with carbon fiber I would like to have one made like this..

[


after lightwave

[cnsranch]

OK, my turn….

Those of you who know me know that I can’t keep my mouth shut, so here goes….

You need to know that when I say “we”, “our” “us”, etc., that I’m not necessarily speaking for myself, and I’m certainly not speaking for everyone, but I’m pretty sure I’m speaking for “some” of “us”. So, don’t attack me personally if “some” of “you” don’t agree with what I have to say.

First of all Jonny, I think your website is great – takes pattern sharing to a whole new level – it’s the bomb. I wish everyone would jump on board and get involved up to their neckties in support. Unfortunately, there’s some pretty significant pushback, and from some pretty active members of the Forum. Trick is to figure out why there’s pushback, and either eliminate the reasons for the pushback, or do away with your site.

IMHO, I believe the pushback comes down to two factors –

Control, and trust. Some are concerned with losing control, and others simply don’t trust your motives, Jonny. Sorry, it is what it is.

Jonny, you’re obviously a pretty smart guy, so I’m going to assume you’re smart enough to know that you don’t know everything – especially about this Forum, and the people who make it go.

Granted, LHR created this Forum, but make no mistake about it, it has become what it is because of those who participate in it – now, and those who were active in the past. This is our Forum, (with some pretty heavy oversight from LHR and the Moderators), and everyone is welcome to become a part of it, benefit from it, learn from it, and “own it” so to speak. So long as we treat each other with respect, we don’t complain, and we’re not disingenuous with one another, we’re a part of the “club” (these “rules” aren’t written down anywhere I know of, but you kind of figure them out as you go along). Make no mistake about it – the minute someone starts to trash-talk the machine or its software, or disrespects LHR or members of the Forum, they’re out – either by way of other members not willing to help them when they need help, or by being banned by the Mods altogether (it has to be really bad to get banned, but it has happened).

Collectively, we here on this Forum love to share – we share our experiences, we share our skills, we share our patterns, our projects, we share everything – and we do it without expecting anything in return.

That’s not really true. There are some ulterior motives in our sharing.

We like to share our projects because we like to get stroked occasionally on how creative we are.
We like to share our patterns because it feels good when others use them.
We like to share our experiences because we know how it feels to thrash a flexshaft, and it feels good to know we saved someone from that feeling when we’ve helped them from burning one up.

But mostly, we like to share because we know it will come back to us ten-fold – we know that our sharing will result in “pay-back”.

As limited as my knowledge is, I know that I’ve helped a few folks over the last few years, and because of my helping, I also know that everyone is more than willing to help me when I need it (and that happens a lot).

I’ve rarely created a project without someone else’s help, either by way of their helping me fix an mpc, or by using one of their patterns, or simply carving one of their projects altogether. (Even though I have never sold a project I’ve made with the CarveWright), those who help me don’t care if I’m selling my projects; they don’t care if I use one of their patterns and make a profit in the process; it’s all part of what we do, and how we do it.

I would, quite humbly, like to think I’ve earned some respect around here. Earned it, not expected it. I’d also like to think that I’ve earned the trust of those around here, and they know that I won’t abuse that trust. Finally, I’d like to think that I’m a welcomed member of “the club” (and I’m quite proud of all of that). But I also know that if I breach any of that, I’ll get dropped like a Whopper at a Wendy’s Convention.

All due respect, but you’re a web developer by trade. You knew what you were getting into when you started this. You knew (or at least had a good idea) how much time and effort such an undertaking would involve. Now you want donations to recover some of the $600 and 100 hours you have in this.

Do you think that the guys with 2,000, 3,000, even over 4,000 posts don’t have time in this?

How about the guys that post their phone number at the bottom of their profile so we can call them and they can walk us through an issue?

My friend, you haven’t even made a dent in what the likes of Al Who, Michael Tyler, Brandon, Kenm810, FWHarris (to name but a few), and any one of the Moderators on this Forum have contributed to this Forum, in real time and money they’ve spent to make this what it is.

With the exception of the occasional Moderator who gets a little testy at times, not one of these guys has complained, or asked for anything in return (other than contributing for the greater good – sounds altruistic, but true).

There’s no question that this Forum can benefit from your website, but I don’t think you understand just how much you need this Forum. Do what you want, but if you don’t earn their trust - if you proclaim transparency, and offer to brainstorm together to figure out how to fund the maintenance of your site if the need arises, but instead put up a paypal link for “donations” in the first few weeks of the site’s existence without anyone’s input, when you tell us that this is easier than you thought it was going to be, but then talk about how hard it is, when you tell us that your site’s not going away, and then tell members of the Forum if they don’t like it, they can just not post to the very Forum they helped to create, when you appear to be just a little too pushy for a guy who’s only been around for a month or so, you’ll soon learn that there’s a price to be paid. I’m pretty sure you don’t care about all of that – but you might want to think about it a little.

You have to understand that there are some here who have been wondering “what’s in it for Jonny”. Sure appears that the paypal link is the first thing – maybe wresting control over every free pattern that’s been developed and contributed by us is the second. I am not suggesting that you have ulterior motives, what I’m saying is that you haven’t exactly put yourself in a position where you’re above reproach

Again, do what you want – you’ve made it clear that you can, and others have confirmed that. You want our support, first understand that you really need it, then ask for it.

You want to find yourself like the Whopper, you’re headed in the right direction.

But that’s just me.

I feel better.