Pattern CD

[Ike]

Doug I agree, but wanted to throw that out there to consider all sides! Wow this guy from e-bay caused a lot of trouble! As members we can add or remove our post including patterns, so does it make it LHR property? Or is it we are allowed to post our patterns with the knowledge it becomes public for the use of everybody? I am leaning towards the later and without the ability to copyright our patterns what is stopping a person from copying a CD made by us and reselling it? We do all the work including making a nice file or CD and make it easy for them to sell! You know non members will not know the difference like the case with the e-bay seller.

Trust me I still like the ideal, but these questions and thoughts keep popping in my head.

Ike

[dbfletcher]

Doug I agree, but wanted to throw that out there to consider all sides! Wow this guy from e-bay caused a lot of trouble! As members we can add or remove our post including patterns, so does that make LHR property? Or is it we are allowed to post out patterns with the knowledge it becomes public for use for everybody? I am leaning towards the later and without the ability to copyright our patterns what is stopping a person from copying a CD made by us and reselling it? We do all the work including making a nice file or CD and make it easy for them to sell! You know non members will not know the difference like the case with the e-bay seller.

Trust me I still like the ideal, but these questions and thoughts keep popping in my head.

Ike

Thats basically what my #6 was. eelamb had suggested we can use a GNU type license, but at best we could use parts of it as a boiler plate. If you not familiar with GNU, generally there lisenses ensure that anyone can use AND modify whats covered under a GNU lisense. I'm prefectly happy with GNU for anything I have ever done, but the general consensus I have seen so far on the forurm is the authors would prefer not to allow the modifcation of thier works.

Here is a link if you want to do more reading.

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html

It's possible to craft text to protect and cover whatever the forum decides... and then we would have demonstratable proof if any of the forum generated cd showed up on ebay or any other site for "sale". In that instance, there would be little difficulty in getting ebay or any other site to take down the auctions. In the current state, I still doubt legally there is anything wrong with what the referenced ebay user was doing. Obviously the forum generated cd would have way more patterns and be cheaper to boot so there would be little reason for anyone to buy his version anymore, and the liscense would stop anyone from selling ours in whole or in part for profit.

[Ike]

Thats basically what my #6 was. eelamb had suggested we can use a GNU type license, but at best we could use parts of it as a boiler plate. If you not familiar with GNU, generally there lisenses ensure that anyone can use AND modify whats covered under a GNU lisense. I'm prefectly happy with GNU for anything I have ever done, but the general consensus I have seen so far on the forurm is the authors would prefer not to allow the modifcation of thier works.

Here is a link if you want to do more reading.

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html

Quick question what is stopping somebody from taking the GNU pattern and modifying enough to call it their own and copyrighting in turn selling the patterns in a CD like the e-bay seller? Sorry stupid question I read it is not allowed to change, but still what if this happens?

But this confuses me...Developers that use the GNU GPL protect your rights with two steps: (1) assert copyright on the software, and (2) offer you this License giving you legal permission to copy, distribute and/or modify it.

So again then others downloading can copy distribute and or modify then resell?

Ike

[dbfletcher]

Quick question what is stopping somebody from taking the GNU pattern and modifying enough to call it their own and copyrighting in turn selling the patterns in a CD like the e-bay seller? Sorry stupid question I read it is not allowed to change, but still what if this happens?

Ike

The GNU lisense does specifically forbid that type of behaviour. Specifically section 5. Any derivative works also must be released under the same lisense. I'm sure this has been testing in court before and it isnt terribly difficult to determine if a work is a derivative work of another or a wholely seperate creation.

It has been my experience the people generally abide by GNU, becuase they see the advantages of doing so.

Again.. I'm not a lawyer, but GNU has been around since the early 80's.

And a lot of the points you bring up are the same reasons I didnt think GNU would generally (stated in my first post) work for what it seems the forum members want.

[dbfletcher]

Doug,
I have to CarverPic. Anything I have posted in open forum is to be considered in the Public Domain and was shared without license or royalty request. I just happy if someone can use what I post. Feel free to include my stuff. I wouldn't mind grabbing a copy of the ISO. In Feb 2011 I'll actually have a 'puter that is capable of doing something with it......anyone want to join me in target practice? I have this computer that needs to be shot at least a few thousand times <grin>.

Bill....

Be very carfull with that wording. Putting something in the Public Domain generally means that anyone can do anything that want with it. And that does include turning around and selling it if they wish.

here is the wikipedia for that topic...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain

The creative commons version I think is a lot more understandable however.

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/

And we wonder why there are so many lawyers.......... (my apoligies if any of our members are lawyers... it was meant as a good hearted jab rather than an insult.)

[gwizpro]

Very Interesting thread. Keep an eye on the the eBay ads for patterns, I got a hunch something is going to happen....

[eelamb]

as to the GNU--MODIFY, I believe that is not possible with the current setup of LHR, which does not allow others to edit a pattern you created. It would apply to any MPC, but patterns within the MPC would still be protected, so I think the MODIFY could be eliminated in the verbage.

I would suggest all patterns on the CD or where ever they are collectively stored also have an image of the pattern. This gives the user a good idea what the pattern is, since as we know some have names not associated with the pattern. Plus there are many duplicate names in the attachments.

This could get very complicated, sorting, and cataloging the patterns. If a new thread (like gallery) was started and within that would be categories (threads) this would help to begin the process.

I do like the idea of stopping the eBay seller so complain, complain, complain. May not do any good but he will know his tactics are not welcomed.

[William Blankenship]

Doug,

This is basically what I was eluding to: ....once placed in the public domain, the Work may be freely reproduced, distributed, transmitted, used, modified, built upon, or otherwise exploited by anyone for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial, and in any way, including by methods that have not yet been invented or conceived (taken from the creative commons, public domain certification). You are right about why there are so many lawyers. It is a complicated issue, much more so than I thought.