Need to order Carvetight or Rock - a few questions

[SteveEJ]

I saw that note in the 'Store' and remembered seeing it before. That is why I was and am concerned. There is a big difference between the 'Not Endorsed' statement required in the store AND this: "It may save you $60 now, but just so you are fully aware...your warranty agreement is voided with any unauthorized modifications or alterations. I would hate for you to lose 6 months worth of warranty, because you didn't know. It of course is your choice.".

It seems that we go through these types of discussions every 6 months or so. LHR having a clearly printed policy concerning their warranty would be a good thing.

[spalted]

Any aftermarket modifications to the CarveWright system has always voided the warranty from any damage caused by the modification. This includes chucks, dust collection systems, and anything else. This has never changed, and isn't any different from any other product.

I'd also like to clarify that LHR is not engaging in "fear tactics". We have stated that we guarantee slip without the hard pressed sleeves based on tens of thousands of hours of testing. It is not possible to hold a carbide bit in a split collet or with a paw chuck system without slip at some point. We don't say it will happen every time, but even if it only slips once in 1000 hrs, it is too many times for us. There is a choice among our consumers and we appreciate that, but we stand behind our statements.

".......caused by the modification"

It all come down to a question of semantics I guess.
I wouldn't call it fear tactics, but there is an effort to muddy the waters.

My impression is that LHR has issued a high price solution to a problem that they would not admit existed. The new chuck should not be an "upgrade" it should have been a recall.

To add insult to injury all in the same breath, I just purchased the STL imported that I paid 299.00 for but now it's 199.00?

The big announcement was a poorly executed good idea. (Shhhhhhh......don't tell anyone, but I installed my new Rock Chuck this morning)

[CarverJerry]

When I got my Ringneck's dust collector I also ordered a new clear cover knowing that I would need to cut it out. I have no regrets what so ever and when I scan something I remove the dust collector, just gives me more room to see and work and the machine still operates just fine with the slot cut in it while scanning. I still have an unopened replacement cover for my machine...just in case...
And I love my ROCK.....the new carvetight looks great too, I'd call it competition pricing and there's nothing wrong with either. Just my 2 cents worth.

CJ

[fwharris]

I saw that note in the 'Store' and remembered seeing it before. That is why I was and am concerned. There is a big difference between the 'Not Endorsed' statement required in the store AND this: "It may save you $60 now, but just so you are fully aware...your warranty agreement is voided with any unauthorized modifications or alterations. I would hate for you to lose 6 months worth of warranty, because you didn't know. It of course is your choice.".

It seems that we go through these types of discussions every 6 months or so. LHR having a clearly printed policy concerning their warranty would be a good thing.

Steve,

I agree for the most part on your last sentance. But for me and a lot of users it really is a mute point as we are well beyond the warranty period either do to number of hours or time frame.

[SteveEJ]

Good point. I guess when I do away with the downdraft and get your dust collection system I will not have to buy a clear cover as mine is out of warranty anyway!

[fwharris]

Good point. I guess when I do away with the downdraft and get your dust collection system I will not have to buy a clear cover as mine is out of warranty anyway!

Steve,

Thanks!!!!

[jgowrie]

".......caused by the modification"


My impression is that LHR has issued a high price solution to a problem that they would not admit existed. The new chuck should not be an "upgrade" it should have been a recall.



The big announcement was a poorly executed good idea. (Shhhhhhh......don't tell anyone, but I installed my new Rock Chuck this morning)

I agree with this statement. It's obvious that QC design caused many failures because it was way too susceptible to failure caused by the dust created by operating your machine. It's amazing how gunked up the inside of the chuck would get after just 1 or 2 jobs and all I do is centerline carve so my dust output is minimal compared to most users.

Maybe not a complete recall but it certainly should have come much quicker and with less additional expense associated with it.

Look the economy sucks, we are all trying to make end meet so I think everyone can understand you aren't going to issue free replacements. But the recent barrage of expensive upgrades you announced in the last month has left a bad taste in peoples mouths because both of these big announcements are what many people consider items which either were not a great design to start with or should have been part of the software package from day one. If a user wants or needs both upgrades we are talking about close to $500 in additional expense.. too much money to expect your loyal user base to fork over for things many feel could have been there from the start.

[lawrence]

Firstly, let me say that I apologize if I came across as if I was calling lynn unprofessional... my intention was not to place blame on the individual, but instead on the policy of creating a "these bad things can happen if you don't use this product" environment. I'm sorry if it was perceived as a personal attack--it was not intended to be as such.

jlovchik's response certainly clears things up a bit in that modifying things will void your warranty for that part or any damage caused by that part malfunctioning... that makes perfect sense... but just to clarify, that was not what was previously stated

I stand by my polite but firm assertion that saying "carbide will slip, guaranteed" (on the forum and also on an official publication) when a competitor has a chuck that uses this method, is a scare tactic. I understand that if a statement like that is made by LHR that they probably have the numbers/research to back it up-- if they didn't it would be an obvious ethical--if not legal, error... so I'm sure they have done their homework.

I really do enjoy this machine, but I can't help but think that the PR for the carvetight release has been poorly handled in this aspect-- if other chucks are truly not up to the task, I'm sure they will naturally fall by the wayside to the superior chuck, but I can't help but think that saying that the oft critiqued qc chuck is adequate but that aftermarket chucks that are appreciated and trusted by many are substandard was a questionable business decision.

Here are the the statements that have been made since the release of the carvetight to which I base my "scare tactics" accusation.

"It may save you $60 now, but just so you are fully aware...your warranty "agreement is voided with any unauthorized modifications or alterations. I would hate for you to lose 6 months worth of warranty, because you didn't know. It of course is your choice.
LHR's position has been and still is...carbide bits WILL slip without the hard pressedadapters...GUARANTEED."(http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=15264)

"The small paws used on other chucks have problems
with dimpling the bits and collets. This is a common
issue with the other chucks." (apr 10 tips and tricks)

The CarveTight has less cantilever forces, especially
when compared to other chuck configurations which sit
too low off the spindle. Being so far out only creates
more load forces, which is hard on everything from the
bits, to the z-truck,and to the flexshaft (apr 10 tips and tricks)

The permanent pressed-on collar
is the ultimate solution, because a standard collet
cannot hold a solid carbide bit completely secure. You
may get away with it for awhile, but it will slip...
guaranteed. A common indication of bit slippage is a zaxis
error, as reported by users of other chuck systems. (apr tips and tricks)

....however there are mixed messages being sent

"jlovchik
CarveWright Staff
I should also say that LHR has never looked at the other chucks out there as a problem. We love that customers have chosen to create these solutions to help themselves and others enjoy their machine experience more. We applaud it and are encouraged by it. Bravo to all for their efforts. "
http://forum.carvewright.com/showthr...603#post127603

"lynnfrwd
CarveWright Staff
LHR and Ron can make claims all day long. Of course, we are both partial to our own designs. They are both, in fact, good designs. The true test will be when customers or an impartial third party makes the comparison.
Can't wait to get some customer feedback on the new spindle! "
http://forum.carvewright.com/showthr...403#post128403


Once again, I truly enjoy the carvewright and am a great supporter of LHR and the machine here and on other forums (my amazon review, WWA, youtube, etc.) However I refuse to be told one thing and then told another without respectfully questioning it--
With great respect,
Lawrence

[dbfletcher]

Lawrence,

Great job! Well researched and very well stated. It seems every time I have tried to bring up conflicting statements someone accuses me of bad mouthing LHR.. when in fact I'm just trying to make sure I understand which statement is most truthful. I have never thought they were being misleading on purpose, but rather often times a poor word choice leading to a very ambiguous statement. I appreciate your effort in pulling all of those "blurbs" in one well written post.

Doug Fletcher

[Metalhead781]

**sits back with his tall glass of whiskey (no not single malt), listens to the Rock Chuck and the CW hum instead of scream and watches for the next blow of the title fight**