Pierced not fully piercing - in Designer 3.102

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02-22-2015
Mike58

1 Attachment(s)

Pierced not fully piercing - in Designer 3.102

This seems like it should be idiot proof but apparently not. I have attempted to use the pierce feature to cutout around a plaque but in the designer software the plaque is not fully cut out. Board thickness @ 0.75" and the outer most region selected and the pierced box checked. Flip the board over to the rear side and it cuts out fully down one side and partially down the rounded corner then fades away completely. The other end shows a imprint of a line as if the cutout is almost thru the board but not enough to completely cut out until it reaches the rounded corner which does show to cut fully through the board. The remaining side has no indication of cutting at all. When the file was ran on the machine, the results are basically as shown on the software screen.

When pierced is unchecked the depth shows as 0.758", but it is blanked out when pierced is checked. Attached is a screen snapshot to better explain what I am talking about. The bottom object is selected showing that it is fact a pierced carving, then the board was flipped to the rear to show what is happening. Real world results with carving machine is the same.

Please advise what to do, or what I maybe doing wrong.
Attachment 74619
02-22-2015
bergerud

What happens if you apply floor feather to the pattern?
02-22-2015
DocWheeler

Not on the level

Maybe the monitor isn't level :p

I could not resist!
02-22-2015
bergerud

Shame on you Doc, it is his first post! LOL (It was funny though!)
02-22-2015
bergerud

Mike, you joined in the start of 2007 and this is your first post! You have been around longer than Doc.
02-22-2015
SteveEJ

Am I missing something? Why not use the 'Cutout' feature?
02-22-2015
bergerud

If it is not the floor feather, maybe you could post the mpc and we can have a look. (Go Advanced and Manage Attachments)
02-22-2015
Mike58

Quote:

Originally Posted by bergerud

Mike, you joined in the start of 2007 and this is your first post! You have been around longer than Doc.

The day I got my machine (from Sears) I tried it to make sure it did work - 1 test run of 30 minutes. It has sat unused for years and I finally decided it was "time". I have a Universal Laser ILS laser engraver also that was purchased in 2008 that has taken most of my at home time since I got it. We have dual laser cartridges 60 watt (ordered with originally) and last year added a second 75 watt cartridge for a total of 135 watts. Largest machine ULS makes with a 24" x 48" table size, and we have done a good deal with it. I wanted to get back to working with thicker material and got the Carvewright out again. I have ran it about 8 hours these last couple weeks but have to run it outside due to cuttings it makes. Laser doesn't make anything but smoke, which is handled with a 3.5 HP Penn State dust collector modified for the laser.

Anyway, yea I feel you. Hadn't been here since 2007 when I got the system until now. Lots of things different about this and the laser. I am use to Corel Draw. Laser sees black and white too, but in reverse of this software. Kind of backwards from what I have done for several years.
02-22-2015
Mike58

Quote:

Originally Posted by bergerud

What happens if you apply floor feather to the pattern?

hasn't made any difference.
02-22-2015
Mike58

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveEJ

Am I missing something? Why not use the 'Cutout' feature?

Why do I need to do that? Already carving the plaque out, and didn't see any reason to change the bit and do that as a extra step when the carving bit is already there to start with. Extra step and time that don't have to be done to get the same end result.
02-22-2015
Mike58

Quote:

Originally Posted by bergerud

If it is not the floor feather, maybe you could post the mpc and we can have a look. (Go Advanced and Manage Attachments)

The file contains a pattern that I purchased from the Pattern Depot. I suppose that I will have to remove it in order to do this? Nobody else would be able to open the file with the purchased pattern in it will they?
02-22-2015
fwharris

Patterns from the Depot are protected so if someone did down load the mpc they could view it but that as far as the can go.
02-22-2015
fwharris

Could it be possible that there are some areas that are not floored so they would not go to the bottom of the board. Your other option is to put a crave region around your pattern and set that as pierced.
02-22-2015
Mike58

1 Attachment(s)

Here is the one that I have been inquiring about. I have a larger size of the same thing done first, but I did use the cutting bit on it. Rotated the pattern and scaled down to work on 1"x12" oak so the long side was the z axis to speed up the craving time.
02-22-2015
Mike58

Quote:

Originally Posted by fwharris

Could it be possible that there are some areas that are not floored so they would not go to the bottom of the board. Your other option is to put a crave region around your pattern and set that as pierced.

If I understand you right I think that is what I did. The edge is raised and slightly tapered going down to the "bottom" side. That's why I thought this would be the fastest and easiest way to do this. Let the carving bit cut it all out except for 4 tabs to hold the plaque in place.
02-22-2015
fwharris

Yes after looking at your project I see that is what you have done. If it were me I would go ahead and carve it but would also put a 1/4" feather (I had to flip the feather to get it to work). You might end up with a thin skin in some areas but that should be able to be cut out with a sharp knife. It might also help to hold the part in place.
02-22-2015
Mike58

Also forgot to add this is double sided. I carved 2 small rectangles in the back for hanging this and a poor text in the center rastered out. I will probably eliminate the dated on the back and laser it instead. This was to be a Valentines gift to my wife. The first one I did in oak was 10" with the board and took over 4 hours to carve. I uploaded the file on best and bit optimization on best on all. On the highest upload setting the engraving time was over 8 hours. Didn't have that much time to do it. Machine sitting on the tailgate of my truck in front of the shop the laser is in. Using a small Craftsman shop vacuum to blow the carvings out of the machine as it ran. Didn't realize the depth was as deep as it was, so the rectangles cut out in the back were cut through from the front due to the front side being cut out so deep. Boy the pattern looked good carved that deep, right up till the holes showed up from the back side. I just bought over $1000 work of software, the centerline text would be nice to have, but I can laser engrave that much faster than I can carve it and have razor sharp edges too.
02-22-2015
SteveEJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike58

Why do I need to do that? Already carving the plaque out, and didn't see any reason to change the bit and do that as a extra step when the carving bit is already there to start with. Extra step and time that don't have to be done to get the same end result.

Well, one good reason is that it would leave tabs so the carved area would not detach from the stock. That's what the cutout function is for. Carve the area or part you want carved then apply the cutout and the software adds tabs. You could do it manually later if you wish to do it your way. It really does not take much time to change a bit. Much more standardized way of cutting parts out. If you don't use the cutout or add the tabs to your project then when the part detaches from the stock there is nothing from keeping it from flopping around in the cutout area and damaging your machine. JMHO
02-22-2015
Mike58

Quote:

Originally Posted by fwharris

Yes after looking at your project I see that is what you have done. If it were me I would go ahead and carve it but would also put a 1/4" feather (I had to flip the feather to get it to work). You might end up with a thin skin in some areas but that should be able to be cut out with a sharp knife. It might also help to hold the part in place.

So is there anything obvious that I did wrong? It looks like to me if the design software doesn't show it to be doing what I am trying to do, that the carving isn't going to either. But I am at a loss why part shows cutting out fully and other places don't. I understand the carving could be different if the board thickness varied but I don't see how that would be the problem in the software.
02-22-2015
fwharris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike58

So is there anything obvious that I did wrong? It looks like to me if the design software doesn't show it to be doing what I am trying to do, that the carving isn't going to either. But I am at a loss why part shows cutting out fully and other places don't. I understand the carving could be different if the board thickness varied but I don't see how that would be the problem in the software.

The only other thing maybe would be make your tabs higher to insure the board is held in place. Some times if they are to low/thin they will bread out.
02-22-2015
Mike58

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveEJ

Well, one good reason is that it would leave tabs so the carved area would not detach from the stock. That's what the cutout function is for. Carve the area or part you want carved then apply the cutout and the software adds tabs. You could do it manually later if you wish to do it your way. It really does not take much time to change a bit. Much more standardized way of cutting parts out. If you don't use the cutout or add the tabs to your project then when the part detaches from the stock there is nothing from keeping it from flopping around in the cutout area and damaging your machine. JMHO

Steve I understand you points and that was EXACTLY what I did. I added 4 lines - 2 at each end and used the place tabs button to make 4 tabs to hold the plaque in place. The outer sides (edges) are tapered and get wider at the bottom or back side edge than the top rounded over edge. The carving bit is already working the complete side of the edge so once the carving is done the part is pretty much already cut thru except for the tabs.

I did use the cutout on the first one that I did and changed the bit from the carving bit to the cutting bit as you as saying. I didn't have the edge profile sloped as much the first time and didn't have any feather on the edge that I did add to the file uploaded.
02-22-2015
Mike58

Why doesn't the pierced path fully cut out completely in the design software? The pierced path is SUPPOSE to fully cut thru the thickness of the board as setup to my understanding. Therefore the thing that is stumping me is if the board thickness is 0.75" and the pierced path is actually suppose to pierce fully through the thickness of the board as setup it should do that around the full path not just in places. Again, I can understand if the actual board thickness varies from side to side or whatever from the design thickness entered into the design software and the real world carving didn't fully pierce everywhere, but for it to be occurring within the software itself seems to be wrong. I don't see where I could cause this to happen. It should fully pierce the predetermined thickness - right?
02-22-2015
fwharris

From what I have seen the pierced carve will only show in the software "like yours" to give you some what of a visual effect that it does carve through the board. If you could increase the outer path area It then would show the carving going through the board.
02-22-2015
bergerud

1 Attachment(s)

Is this what you want? The sweep edge needed to be lowered. (I lowered it a little too much. There is something strange here with the sweep.)
02-22-2015
bergerud

It is a bug with rail sweep. Piercing does not work. You should make it into a pattern and then piercing will work.

(The bug is that the pierced check box is active when I think it should not be. No other 3D tools have the check box enabled.)
02-22-2015
Mike58

Quote:

Originally Posted by bergerud

Is this what you want? The sweep edge needed to be lowered. (I lowered it a little too much. There is something strange here with the sweep.)

Yes, That is what I was expecting. I guess the bug is that it doesn't work consistently. It carves and cuts about like it showed on the design software. I will look at the file more tomorrow. I appreciate your taking time to look at it and respond to my cry for help.
02-22-2015
bergerud

Pierced does not work at all for rail sweeps. You need to take your rail sweep and make a pattern out of it. Piercing will work for the pattern.
02-23-2015
zan29

Don't know it this will help but I never use the "pierce" option to do a pierce carve because the edges come out cleaner for some reason. I always set my pattern depth and outline at .758" with a feather. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to do but make sure your outline is set a the proper depth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike58

This seems like it should be idiot proof but apparently not. I have attempted to use the pierce feature to cutout around a plaque but in the designer software the plaque is not fully cut out. Board thickness @ 0.75" and the outer most region selected and the pierced box checked. Flip the board over to the rear side and it cuts out fully down one side and partially down the rounded corner then fades away completely. The other end shows a imprint of a line as if the cutout is almost thru the board but not enough to completely cut out until it reaches the rounded corner which does show to cut fully through the board. The remaining side has no indication of cutting at all. When the file was ran on the machine, the results are basically as shown on the software screen.

When pierced is unchecked the depth shows as 0.758", but it is blanked out when pierced is checked. Attached is a screen snapshot to better explain what I am talking about. The bottom object is selected showing that it is fact a pierced carving, then the board was flipped to the rear to show what is happening. Real world results with carving machine is the same.

Please advise what to do, or what I maybe doing wrong.
Attachment 74619