long bit and flex shaft

so before I bought the long bit I did a little research on the form here... what I found is people posted only about braking bits and from what I could tell it was because they had something wrong or a part not as tight fitting as it should be. I know people normally only post when something gos wrong, Im no exception! I will try to add the good too. I don't have a lot of hours on my newer carvewright (150 cutting) and I have always used a super powered dust collector on it. so its vary clean. no dust getting caught in and on everything sucking the oil and life out of it! if you don't have the dust collector attachment you need it, it will save you from a lot of the problems you will have! I am a chainsaw carver, so I carved and scanned in a few of my carvings. I did nine 3x5x2 owls, I carved a bird house out if 4 - 2"x12' and scanned in each piece, and a bunch of other wall hangings. I have had it re-carve my work with good success at 1 1/2" deep in pine. I do all my stuff in pine. the owls came out good at 1 1/2" deep for there first test carve, but when I did it at 2" deep I had issues. first problem was half way through the carve and a knot it got a z or y error massage, so I started it over and let air carve for a few hours and it stopped at the knot again. The wood was rough cut, really old pine so it was probably a lot harder then the 2x12's I was getting from lowes. But as far as I know it should be able to cut hard wood. I had it at best setting so it would take its time... at 14 hours to carve 9 little owls! the next time I tried it with a piece that had no knots. I checked it half way through and the flex shaft was warm but not any were near to hot to touch. when I came back it was done... it did a good job. if only it did not melt the outside of the flex shaft in the process. The insides were still good and felt lubed... It really sucks because I had just replaced it with a new one I had on hand (I even lubed it with carverwright lube) a few carves before when it wound the guide spring around the inner flex shaft and snapped the end off in the motor 90 % of the way trough a carve for no apparent reason. Im sure I let it carve nonstop to log, but there is nothing in the instructions that I remember that said I should not... I know "they" say there should not be any problems with the flex shaft when the thing is working correctly and its a consumable wear and tear pice, but from my experience with an A, B (traded to me) and C (new) machine they don't run trouble free and a vary simple heat probe would save a lot of people 100's of dollars by stopping it before it needs to be replaced. I have just gone through 2 flex shafts and need to buy a 3rd to keep it going in the last week or so... and a even more on my older Carvewrights...
I like the idea of the 2 inch bit, but so far I think it puts to much stress on the machine, I will be carving at no more then an 1 1/2 from here on out and hope that helps, its unfortunate because 2" was going to make it a lot more useful for me.
a few other things to note is I had a little bit of trouble with the z stale error on 1 1/2" - 2" carves, turned out to be skipping from the y. I tightened it up a little bit and that went away. I can foresee that extra tension wearing out the bearings in the motor faster tho. I have not snapped a long but yet, thankfully! I think as long as your rollers are tight and your motor keeps spinning your alright in that aspect. and iv seen it do some tough carving when it skipped before it staled out.

overall I think the 2" bit is nice, but I think it will put some tough wear and tear on the carvewright and I would not expect it to do a lot of 2" carving... and that's just my experience with carving pine.

I would like to hear about others experience with the 2" bit and anything I might be doing wrong to be going through flex shafts like I am... and no I will not sit there and watch it the whole time to make sure nothing gos wrong! what I can make in an hour it takes 10... its would be nice to have even a few extra pieces if I could get it to do that, but so far I have spent more time working with it to keep it working and figuring out what is wrong then its worth.

here are some things im working on, hopefully I will have time to wright up instructions and get them in the store some day...
I scanned in a pattern for a bird house like the ones in the back of this pic with the green and red roof, sorry I have yet to take a pic of it.
Attachment 79905
Attachment 79900 9 little Owls
Attachment 79901 dragonfly and humming bird wall hangings
Attachment 79902I call this one van castleton wall hanging
Attachment 79903Two owl wall hangings
Attachment 79904 Wolf howling at the moon
Attachment 79899 A new one Im working on that I think will be really cool when done... I want to add a small led light behind the owl and tucked up in the bottom. Also Im going to add a shelf with bark like edges at the top and one above and below the owl... I want to have different options so Im going to scan it in now then add the shelves and scan it in again... hopfully it will be able to handle carving it...
Attachment 79898

Good info and GREAT Projects...

AL

You clearly are a talented person! Very creative projects! Thank you for sharing your carving experience. I am puzzled by your flexshaft experience. I have two machines with many hours and so far no flexshaft problems. I do keep them well lubricated. Is your flexshaft supported in the wire guide so that the bend is gradual?

Rk, I've only ever carved 34# density rigid polyurethane foam with the 2" long bit at full depth. That material is quite expensive but cuts easily without straining the CW. Others have expressed concern with most woods, except for the very soft ones; balsa, etc. Thanks for sharing your thoughts as all of us on this great forum gain a little more insight with your experiences. Joe

I have used the 1/8" long carving bit in many projects and on many different species of woods ranging in hardness from Bubinga to Douglas Fir. Flat or 3D rotary I have never had any issues. Each long bit project is designed with the bit in mind and I always upload the projects using the "optimal" setting so the step-over passes are very small. If used properly there shouldn't be any problems at any depth.

Thanks for your post Steve (and everyone alts!) Do you do a lot of 2" deep carving? do you have any problems with knots, that seems to be the one of my down fall I have had with the 2" bit and even the reg bits... How many hours are you carves? long carves are the other! From my research and experience I feel I design my patterns well. They just tend to be vary long carves, sometimes up to 15 hours! I don't like to do tiny things, just not my thing.

I just ordered some thermal switches to wire into the cover switch... hopefully it will actually stop it before the damage starts...

Hi Dbemus, yes I keep my flex shaft lubricated and it is supported by the guide wire and always seems to be bending just right when im looking at it.

Im working on making the UCB right now, that should make things easier, wont solve any of my bigger problems tho!

Yes the UCB will save a lot of wood. Keep us up to date on other problems. There are some great problem solvers on this forum. I see we are on opposite ends of NY state.

So Iv tried to carve my bird house pattern in my new UBC... UBC worked great, but I keep getting y stall error. It carves about 3 inches and then it just stops bit still were it would be if it were still cutting, meaning it does not pull it up when it stops... its not jumping or skipping... I started it again and let it air carve, it air carved the part already done and then did another 3 inches then y stall... I did this about 4 times and it did the same thing every time. I think it must be something with the cut motor, I checked the brushes and they will need to be replaced soon but not not yet worn out... I has stopped a few times and asked me to check cut motor, Im not sure what it wants me to do for that error. I checked the flex shaft and turned the bit by hand. no more restriction then normal... I changed the quality setting also and it still did the same thing...
any one have any idea what I should try?


I was able to restart the carve 4 or 5 times and it was right on every time with the UBC, That is nice...

Are you carving with the grain or across the grain? 1/16" deep bit or 1/8" deep bit? I know that carving with the grain with the 1/16" deep bit can cause problems. When moving to the right, the bit can bend into (under) the grain and cause a y stall. (This is why we cannot use the 1/16" deep bit with the rotary jig.)

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Originally Posted by bergerud

Are you carving with the grain or across the grain? 1/16" deep bit or 1/8" deep bit? I know that carving with the grain with the 1/16" deep bit can cause problems. When moving to the right, the bit can bend into (under) the grain and cause a y stall. (This is why we cannot use the 1/16" deep bit with the rotary jig.)

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thanks for responding. I was carving against the grain. 1/16 deep bit. in a pine 2x12 from lowes.

Look closely next time and see if the bit is bending into the wood. Were the stalls always when going to the right? (Maybe a long shot.)

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Originally Posted by bergerud

Look closely next time and see if the bit is bending into the wood. Were the stalls always when going to the right? (Maybe a long shot.)

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I remember it stalling out going both ways and it seems like it was cutting just as it always has...

Maybe you should try a project with the standard carving bit. Just carve a deep hole on normal and see if it stalls.

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Originally Posted by Rkoonz2

...I think it must be something with the cut motor, I checked the brushes and they will need to be replaced soon but not not yet worn out... I has stopped a few times and asked me to check cut motor...

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Hi Rich,

Thanks for posting the photos of your projects. Man, you have made a lot of GREAT projects! Very impressive.

Just a quick note about the motor brushes...I don't know if the majority of your problems are related to the cut motor or not (I suspect the bit might be "grabbing the wood" occasionally during some of your deep carves causing some of the error messages). However, we can't always tell by looking if the brushes need to be replaced. Mine have been worn down almost to the "nub" and were obviously in need of replacement and was easily spotted just by looking at 'em.

But I had a surprise one day when a friend came over with his machine because he was getting a lot of cut motor errors. First instinct was "needs new brushes". I took out the brushes and they appeared to have plenty of carbon left, so I dismissed the need for replacement...but, since I had some extra brushes on hand, I went ahead and replaced them anyway (thinking it wouldn't make any difference). Well, to my surprise, THAT WAS THE PROBLEM! After replacing what I thought were good brushes with a lot of life left in them, the machine worked perfectly after installing the new ones.

Try it on a scrap piece of wood without the sled. It may not solve your problem but at least it will eliminate one possibility. If it does work okay, try a different project again on scrap wood without the sled. Just using a methodical set of steps here and it may or may not help.

I keep saying it but nobody listens. Try Lubraplate 930AA to lube your flex shaft. Lay the cable on an old newspaper and paint it with a 1/2" chip brush. My flex shafts hardly get warm and never hot. I have had to replace a spacer spring 2 times, but only because I saw it was in pieces when I lubed the shaft but was not causing any problems. (Don't remember if both wereon the older B or one on each the B and C.)
Clint

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Originally Posted by SteveNelson46

Try it on a scrap piece of wood without the sled. It may not solve your problem but at least it will eliminate one possibility. If it does work okay, try a different project again on scrap wood without the sled. Just using a methodical set of steps here and it may or may not help.

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sorry for the slow response... I was away for a few days. I was having the same problem before I did the sled. so its not the sled. Iv got rollers set up for it and everything... it will carve for about 2 inches then just stop... if i start it over it will air carve over the part that was carved then do about 2 more inches of carving then stop... I am going to try another carving that in only using the 1" bit...

Thanks cestout, I will give that lube a try if I have any more problems, Thats not my main worry right now, I just need it to keep carving! it wont carve long enough to get hot!

so i just did a .7" deep carving with the reg bit (40 min carve) all went well... I went back to carving the 1.5" deep bird house pattern and it carved another 2" or so and stopped with a y error again! I can not figure out why!

here is a pic of where it stopped... it didn't sound stressed, just going along fine then it just stops!


Attachment 80069

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Originally Posted by mtylerfl

Hi Rich,

Thanks for posting the photos of your projects. Man, you have made a lot of GREAT projects! Very impressive.

Just a quick note about the motor brushes...I don't know if the majority of your problems are related to the cut motor or not (I suspect the bit might be "grabbing the wood" occasionally during some of your deep carves causing some of the error messages). However, we can't always tell by looking if the brushes need to be replaced. Mine have been worn down almost to the "nub" and were obviously in need of replacement and was easily spotted just by looking at 'em.

But I had a surprise one day when a friend came over with his machine because he was getting a lot of cut motor errors. First instinct was "needs new brushes". I took out the brushes and they appeared to have plenty of carbon left, so I dismissed the need for replacement...but, since I had some extra brushes on hand, I went ahead and replaced them anyway (thinking it wouldn't make any difference). Well, to my surprise, THAT WAS THE PROBLEM! After replacing what I thought were good brushes with a lot of life left in them, the machine worked perfectly after installing the new ones.

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I don't know how I missed your post. I have it caving the bird house pattern with the 1/8 long bit to see if that makes a difference. when its done I will try some new brushes. I think I have some laying around... or I will barow some from one of my other carvewright Im not using... Thanks for the compliment I really wish I could keep this thing working so I can get on to new ideas... your work is vary nice as well!
Im thinking of selling them at this point! Iv got a newer C, a B (I believe it was working when I put it away!) and a C (I know it was having a little issue, but could not pin point it) I have another for parts, with a few parts left on it as well. I have lots of extra parts and bits. the C has low hours, the b and c Im sure have a lot. Iv also have dust collectors on the C and B... Have any idea what they would be worth.

Attachment 80071Attachment 80072Attachment 80073Attachment 80074Attachment 80075Attachment 80076Attachment 80077

Are you carving on normal, best or optimal? Could the bit be dull? Look closely, maybe the bit has a bad grind. This is strange.

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Originally Posted by bergerud

Are you carving on normal, best or optimal? Could the bit be dull? Look closely, maybe the bit has a bad grind. This is strange.

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I have tried normal best and optimal... it carves about the same amount then stops... Its carving right now with the 1/8 long bit on normal and seams to have gotten further so far and still going. so Im thinking that maybe it is the bit... Iv only carved a handful of things with the 1/16 long bit and only in pine... for 80$ that sucks!