Talking myself out of buying the machine?

[vthowe]

Hey everyone, per a lot of advise, I've been reading the message boards now for several months. I finally decided that I would look into the $999 reconditioned unit from sears. So I'm back doing more due dilagence and it seems like everyone has sent back there machines at least one time!?

I'm a fairly technical person with a LOT of computer and general woodworking experiance. I'm getting more afraid to send in my money to get a machine that either doesn't work or will only work for a short time.

Are the general issues because people don't take care of the machine, don't follow dirrections, etc...or generally a fault of the machines regardles of one's experience, background or care of the machine?

Sorry for the sad message!

Thanks all!

Travis

[DocWheeler]

Travis,

I would recommend that anyone wanting a good/small CNC machine to join us in having fun with these CC/CW machines.

As a response to your question, my feelings are that the $999 machines would make good second machines for people. If you were very lucky, you might have one work out for you as a first machine - depending on the updates the machine has on it and your tolerance for facing small problems in the midst of your learning the machine.

A lot of people got turned-off early with problems with early versions or were unwilling to really learn the machine basics before returning their machines for a refund.

These are just my personal beliefs and be taken with that understanding.

[jpaluck]

Travis

I have had my machine - only one - for over a year and have used the you know what out of it. I have had some minor issues like melting the flex cable..my error of not keeping lubed. Ripped traction belts, normal wear and tear as with any tool. Boar sensor error - me not keeping it clean enough. all these problems were fixed by me and I had minimal down time...like a day or two waiting on parts. I had to send my machine in once for a loose ztruck and I had it back with in a two week period covered under warranty no questions asked. The customer service at LHR I think is awsome. Every tool I have owned from table saws miter boxes planers etc has had an issue at some point. I beleive if you follow all the maintence suggestions here in the forum and from LHR you will be satisfied with your purchase. There is a learing curve but you sound like you should be able to handle it no prob.

John

[vthowe]

Thanks Gents. My thinking w/ the reconditioned unit at $999 was that if I buy a new one for $1700(ish) it doesn't seem to matter much if you have issues, old or new. So I would have $700 for repairs beyond the 6months that's provided w/ the refurb unit. Then I tell myself if I were to go w/ a new one w/ a 3 or 5 year sears warranty that's $200-$300 that would be even more funds for repairs....if needed. Then I hear that the sears coverage is a real pain. I guess it's sort of a gamble but doesn't seem too bad?
Yeah, I gather that the right lube and continuous maintance/cleaning is one of the major keys to success.

Thanks!

[HighTechOkie]

First, I would find out who handles the 6mon warranty on the recon machine (sears or LHR). I presume it is Sears that handles it, in which case, your first service will likely take up the 6mon period in their hands (sorta kidding, sorta not kidding). The 3/5yr Protection is only available on new machines, so you are looking at $2,000-2,100 total. For that kind of money I think I would purchase 2 recon machines. You could easily swap parts to diagnose the problem (along with the help of everyone here on the forum), order a replacement from LHR and still have 1 working machine while waiting for part(s).

This assumes you are in need of a working machine all the time and you are willing to troubleshoot and repair/replace parts yourself.

Rob

[Digitalwoodshop]

The machine is not for everyone. If you are willing to work through the issues and learn as you go then it is a good deal for you. If you don't have the Patience to deal with the issues then it is not for you. It is a very hands on machine with a high level of maintenance to keep it running.

AL

[Rocky]

The machine is not for everyone. If you are willing to work through the issues and learn as you go then it is a good deal for you. If you don't have the Patience to deal with the issues then it is not for you. It is a very hands on machine with a high level of maintenance to keep it running.

AL

My sentiments, exactly.

[TerryT]

As Doc Wheeler said, this is just my opinion;

I had over 450 hours on my traction belts when I changed them. I didn't have to change them but I did anyway. So I know they are good for that length of time. You see some folks that have ripped belts or broken x gears after just a few hours of use. The reason isn't the belts but using wood that is not flat, square and parallel. If you use junk wood you can damage the machine. I have over 500 hours on the machine now and have never had a problem with the x drive or gears. The point being that if you take time and care when using the machine repairs are minimal. The repairs I have had to make have been relatively cheap to do. You can replace the entire z pack for 40 bucks! Cover switch is, I think, 5 bucks. Time wise, most repairs are in the 10 to 30 minute range and simple enough for anyone to do.

I agree with you that at $999 a reconditioned machine may be a very wise investment. You get six months of free repairs if anything does go wrong AND the $800 dollars you save can buy a whole bunch of parts later on (or almost a second recon machine).

[Deolman]

You know, you see the good bad and the ugly on this forum. Why, because we all want a machine that works and works well. Consequently you can read about every little glitch that may happen to the machine. That means there are very few posts shouting out all of the virtues of this machine. That just doesn't happen. When the machine is running great you just don't hear about it as much. The machine is a mechanical device. As such, it starts wearing from the first time of use. Sure you may have some problems, but nothing is insurmountable. I also don't think there is a person on this forum unwilling to lend a hand if possible. Keeping it going is very do-able.

So if you talk yourself out of the purchase you will miss out on being a part of a great community. You won't be a carve-a-holic like the rest of us. And, you will miss out on creating stuff to wow your friends. Not to mention the thrill of seeing it perform right before your eyes.

If you can though, go for it. The feelings you are having now will end up to be nothing more than a memory. Take your best deal, and make it work for you!

[Digitalwoodshop]

I forget what the number of units sold is at this time, but all things considered, you don't hear that many people just posting to say how GOOD the machine works.... That is a bunch of happy customers.

I believe with Sears selling the reconditioned units, I expect we are seeing a trend with the power supplies. They were an issue a year ago.... LHR fixed it in China and swapped out the bad power supplies. The issue was in China, the girl squirting the glue on the back side of the L2 Coil to keep it's big copper mass from vibrating and causing metal fatigue of the copper leads. Take a piece of solid copper wire like used in your house wiring and start to flex it so it bends in one spot. It will change color and break. That is what is happening with the L2. More Glue in China solved the problem.

Now we have a vast quantity of units that were turned back into SEARS last year that after the dust settled they decided to refurbish and sell. The problem is they might not be paying enough attention to the L2 in the power supply. By the way, a L2 is nothing but a coil of lacer coated copper wire wound around itself like fishing line on a spool. The wire being coiled upon itself acts like a filter to DC or Direct Current power. Electronic Noise or static gets trapped or canceled out within the coil. So the L2 is on the output part of the power supply and the outgoing power goes through it...... As in the many pictures I have posted, you can see the copper wire broke in the middle of the thickness of the circuit board.

I think Sears will catch on when the refurbished machines start coming back. Until then, we will see postings about power supplies.

Just my 2 cents,

AL

[LollyWood]

Hi Travis.

I'm no technical (computer wise) person, nor am I mechaniclly inclined. Heck out side of a few clamps and a table saw, my woodowrking skills are learn as I go. I thought (correctly todate) that this machine would add some pazazz to my projects. Like you 2k was pretty steep for a hobby, so I went w/ a reconditioned one from ebay. And man, what a learning curve. Not just figuring out designers do's/don'ts, but how to keep the darn thing running w/ consistency. I've made my share of kindling, and have had it stripped down to its bones on a number of occasions. But along the way I've learned a great deal about how this gizmo works. And that has made keeping it up and running fairly easy. No more fear of a missaligned head, a bad board sensor, or (after yesterday;)) a busted X gear. No more apprehension about second nature checks: lube, clean, vacuum, bit snap, guide set, square stock:). Good confidence w/ fixing z trucks, cleaning z coders, and switching QCs. All without haveing any warranty from day one. I've learned so much, and become fairly confident w/ this thing that I now have a second. Also bought from ebay. And now it's twice the fun. Every thing I have been able to do to keep my machines running, I learned here w/ these folks. From designer to sand paper belt change to Z truck bearing switch. This place is a treasure trove of info for the CC/CW owner. And the folks here are better then any CW thesaurus you'll EVER read.

The long/short is as our gurus say, this machine is not for every one. It's needy, and tempermental from time to time. but if you have some patience, a fairly open out look and a desire to create some beautiful things, then this is for you. If not, I'd say pass for now and keep tabs here. You'll eventually buy one. No one who wants to add to their hobby can possibly resist. For my $$, this is the best investment I could have made.

Just my experence

[ChrisAlb]

WOW Bernie!!! What more could be said?

http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon14.gif...and now you've heard the WHOLE story...http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[jaustin]

I keep talking myself out of buying a new CW. Went to lowes the other day to price compare.

Was able to get a new CW priced matched at 1699 and bit set for 264 ( i think) plus the 10% off coupon from the CW site. total was right around $1900 out the door, but had to tell them sorry since they wasn't offering 6 months no interest. told them i will keep checking back untill they have the 6 months intterest.

[Ike]

I keep talking myself out of buying a new CW. Went to lowes the other day to price compare.

Was able to get a new CW priced matched at 1699 and bit set for 264 ( i think) plus the 10% off coupon from the CW site. total was right around $1900 out the door, but had to tell them sorry since they wasn't offering 6 months no interest. told them i will keep checking back untill they have the 6 months intterest.

Shoot if you get offers for credit cards like I do, then you still can get 6 months interest free! It has slowed down but I still get 0% for 6 months or sometimes a year. Then it goes to a terrible interest rate 14% and up!

Those deals are great, even at Lowes if you pay the item off within that time period! Many of us have been able to pay off our CW and make enough to buy another one using it to sell projects!

Now it is just me if you plan on paying it off in 6 months and you have the money saved up borrow from yourself and pay yourself back. If you are afraid of not paying yourself back, there is always Sears I think they offer 6 months no interest and with the craftsman club you can get a deal. Plus you can save on a refurbished CC for $999.00

Ike

[BBrooks]

Hey everyone, per a lot of advise, I've been reading the message boards now for several months. I finally decided that I would look into the $999 reconditioned unit from sears. So I'm back doing more due dilagence and it seems like everyone has sent back there machines at least one time!?

I'm a fairly technical person with a LOT of computer and general woodworking experiance. I'm getting more afraid to send in my money to get a machine that either doesn't work or will only work for a short time.

Are the general issues because people don't take care of the machine, don't follow dirrections, etc...or generally a fault of the machines regardles of one's experience, background or care of the machine?

Sorry for the sad message!

Thanks all!

Travis

Travis,
I've only got 50 hours on my CW (had it a month) but the only mechanical problem thus far was a back roller sensor. 4 bolts, clean, fixed and a little more attention to cleaning now. Half a dozen software glitches but nothing that ruined a project.
It looks like you have done your homework and are ready for this tool. I lurked here a long time also and when i was confident of the CW and My ability I jumped right in.

cheers,

[rstudley]

Can anyone tell me if the basic software can be transferred if I buy a used machine, like on Craigslist or Ebay?
Thanks!

[Amonaug]

Can anyone tell me if the basic software can be transferred if I buy a used machine, like on Craigslist or Ebay?
Thanks!

The designer/CW license can be transferred, just call LHR. The Pattern editor license cannot be transferred.

[GrammaPam]

You can compare machines on the internet. I had wished I could have seen choices at the woodworking show but only the "hobby" model, Carvewright, was exhibiting. The other ones like JobBot and stuff don't promote as actively. Problem is, once you get to that point, Your heart has already decided you need one, your brain just hasn't realized it yet. Fortunately there are lots of really wonderful people on the forum sharing what they can to help. And if it's not the middle of the night, Sunday or you're in the wrong time zone, there's LHR. I go to the forum first. There's a reason car insurance is higher for new drivers. Beginners make the most mistakes. We're just so ignorant we don't know it's our fault at first. Point being, if you're still reading this you're already hooked, just don't think you're going to know it all in the beginnng.
Good Luck
G.P.

[derrickmdale]

If you haven't gotten one just buy the machine already. I bought mine without knowing all the problems. I was hugely disappointed when I couldn't get it to work like I thought it should straight out of the box. It's now a year later and their are times I want to chunk it in the ditch because it frustrates you to no end. However, all that said. You have to love it because it does what no other machine can or will do.

My biggest mistakes were not really understanding small details about the machine and the software. Nothing was more frustrating than having an idiot try to operate this thing.. unfortunately I was that idiot. Once I learned a few small details it worked great. Until it didn't, then I fixed it and it worked great again, accept for when it's temperamental tuesday or trashed carving thursdays.

you said you have a lot of computer skills.. This machine isn't very different from when Microsoft unloads a new OS.. it sucks until the service packs come out. Lucky for you.. they have the newest version updates and they're working fairly well.

[Jamey]

Point being, if you're still reading this you're already hooked

Valid argument! Just made me register...hehehe.

[PCW]

Doug

Welcome to the forum. Glad to have you on board.:-D

[fwharris]

Doug from Ohio,

Glad to see you came out from behind the trees!!:p

Great intro and welcome to the forum!!

[www.go3d.us]

I say go for the reconditioned one. If they have reconditioned machine back then I would probably have bought it.
Good luck and have a happy wood carving adventure!
HT

[DocWheeler]

Doug,

Welcome, that was a familiar story that you told, many of us will identify with it. I'm between Cincinnati and Dayton, if you are in the area, I'd like to meet with you.

[lawrence]

I'll say this- I have a love/fear relationship with my carvewright. It's kindof like the first time you date the prettiest girl in class. You love it-- it makes you proud, you stare at it for hours watching it out of awe, but also looking for the occasional loose screw... and when you find it and tighten it down, you look everywhere trying to find the next loose screw... over time, something may or may not go wrong, but eventually you just accept it and love it and enjoy it... with just a tiny bit of fear in the back of your head... because afterall, she is the prettiest girl in class

Lawrence

[will george]

Just my opinion.

I would think reconditioned does not mean it is not any good. I bought mine new and I do a a lot of work on it. Yes, I have had my ups and downs but nothing that could not be corrected with a little thought.

I for one would do it over. In fact I am a skilled woodworker but I never could carve well. Ok, maybe, carve reasonably well, but I could never get four parts to look the same.

I have been making two Chinese style canopy beds for my granddaughters that have carvings of Dragons, centerline text and grill work all made with the CW. I am sure I could have hand carved the text and the grill work. But NOT the Dragons! The Dragon pattern I got in here for free. It is a GREAT carving... Not finished with my beds yet and I have a few more carvings to do. Once the beds are done, as far as carvings, my CW could go up in flames and I would still think money well spent.

To be honest, I really like my machine. I will say that if my living income depended on it I would get one of those $25,000 or more expensive machines.

Get it and hope for the best. Life is full of risks!

[dcalvin4]

Buy A refurbi if you think can repair yourself. But whatever you do throw away the quick change bit holder , geta rock chuck and a new carving bit from Ron . the chuck is v i b r a t i o n free..and the carving bit has 4 cutting edges not 3 that comes with the machine......these items are a must.
denny