Cutting Region Time Down To Size

[ChrisAlb]

Doing a fairly large mirror project in oak. It's 11.25 x 35.25. The project front is pretty fancy and the back needs to be plowed out for the glass at .25 deep and 10.25 x 34.25. Carving in Best mode it's a 24+ hour carve. The region on the back alone was an 8:58:19 carve!!! LOL...you must be kidding me...LOL

Since the front is a pierced carving, I couldn't see adding that much time to just hog out the back. So I cheated a bit.

I set up the same rectangle I would for the region but just applied the 1/8 cut bit to the path at .25 deep with a 1/16" inset to get my finished 10.25 x 34.25 size. Then I used straight lines 9.875 long across the width at 3/8 apart and applied the 3/8 straight bit at .25 deep. All in it took 1:28:32 to carve out the back.

I also did the back in a separate file so I can start the 13:15:23 hour front carve in the morning. Too late to start it now....lol

Note: As you can see in picture 2, Unlike "dust" from the carving bit, the chips pile up fast so be ready to vacuum it out often. This was after the first 6 passes.

[Audie]

Hey Chris...

What if you put a rectangle in the middle of the frame...inset within the borders of the frame, set the height to zero and then a cut path. That would remove the "waste" area quicker...(might even be able to use the rectangle piece of wood for another project). On the back side you could carve a recessed area around the perimeter of the frame for the mirror to be mounted, the center section would be left intact then...

A technique I do on frames...

Audie

[Amonaug]

Chris, I've used that same technique on several projects with large areas like that.

[ChrisAlb]

Hey Chris...

What if you put a rectangle in the middle of the frame...inset within the borders of the frame, set the height to zero and then a cut path. That would remove the "waste" area quicker...(might even be able to use the rectangle piece of wood for another project). On the back side you could carve a recessed area around the perimeter of the frame for the mirror to be mounted, the center section would be left intact then...

A technique I do on frames...

Audie

Hey Audie,

Well I'm not cutting that middle section out. That's the back of a pierced carving. I had to remove the entire back so when I turn it over and carve the front it will carve right through. Then the mirror will sit behind the pierced carving in what's left around the edges.

There will be pictures when it's done.


Kevin,

yea I do this from time to time. The first time was over a year ago. It makes a bit of a mess but sure saves time and carving bits. I've done the same type of thing a lot on the work site with a hand router. The CW sure is easier...lol

[Dan-Woodman]

CHRIS
How about this , It's only 56 : 38 in best. Just another way to accomplish the same thing.
If you do just straight lines ,it has to start over on each line , but if you connect all lines it should continually cut all the way and around the perimeter too to get rid of the little missed pieces from the 3/8 bit.
Another way would be to make a contineuos rectangle around and around. I haven't tried any of these yet so let us know what works and what don't.
One thing I forgot on this mpc.--select all, then group.
later Daniel

[ChrisAlb]

CHRIS
How about this , It's only 56 : 38 in best. Just another way to accomplish the same thing.
If you do just straight lines ,it has to start over on each line , but if you connect all lines it should continually cut all the way and around the perimeter too to get rid of the little missed pieces from the 3/8 bit.
Another way would be to make a contineuos rectangle around and around. I haven't tried any of these yet so let us know what works and what don't.
One thing I forgot on this mpc.--select all, then group.
later Daniel

Daniel,

That's another idea for sure. I might be a little nervous about it cutting a full 3/8 wide and a 1/4 deep on the path back to the keypad. Technically, as routers go, that's cutting backward and I wonder if it wouldn't put a lot of strain on the truck & servo with the bit trying to pull itself into the wood. You know what it's like trying to hold onto a hand held cutting that way...LOL

The 1/8 path around the outside took care of the little pieces at the edge. When it was finished, it was clean all the way around. I didn't have to do a thing to it.

[Amonaug]

I've used spiral rectangles most times that start on the outside and work it's way inside with no problems. But something that big a back and forth would work better.

[Dan-Woodman]

Chris
One thing about it is you have 85 lbs. of down force on your piece of wood.
Does anyone out there know about the servo's? What kind of locking force do they have to lock the z-truck from moving while routing?
I've routed 3/16" deep with a 1/2" bit with out any problems . But that was MDF board.

Amonaug
Maybe that idea about "spiral rectangles" should be added to the wish list to go along with the round spiral feature.
later Daniel

[ChrisAlb]

Daniel,

Oh I'm sure it will do it OK. Let me ask you, even though it was MDF, could you notice any difference in load on the motor between the two directions?

The servos are pretty darn strong. Just for kicks one day I tried to stop the Y direction by hand. No way...LOL I'd be less concerned about them than I would the truck, bearings, truck rail.

I know it cuts in that direction fine when I do a rectangle or one of my border carves but that's just one or two passes. This puppy took a lot of lines to hog out.

[Dan-Woodman]

Chris
I didn't notice much difference, but then that was a couple of years back, and MDF routs really easy. I think this is a well designed machine and it will handle it. I would also be interested in if it would even make one pass at 1/4" deep x3/8" wide.
Til tommorrow later Daniel

[ChrisAlb]

Daniel,

For sure it will. I've done 1/4 deep with the 3/8 bit in just about every direction there is...lol. I agree with you, I think it would do it no problem. I've used every other shaping bit in all directions as well.

I just saw all those passes needed to hog out all that oak and felt more "comfortable" with the bit cutting "out" of the wood....lol. I probably just wimped out...http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

[Dan-Woodman]

Chris
Inhale, exhale, repeat if neccesary. It' just side affects from being a carvehalic.
Take two carvehalic mpc's and then log back into the forum later.
later Daniel

[atauer]

Chris,

I can see now exactly how troublesome that project is getting. I'll make sure that you get compensated for the problems you are encountering. I'll make sure that the wife let's me send you a nice Christmas gift for all your troubles.

[ChrisAlb]

Chris,

I can see now exactly how troublesome that project is getting. I'll make sure that you get compensated for the problems you are encountering. I'll make sure that the wife let's me send you a nice Christmas gift for all your troubles.

LOL...fear not my friend. The challenge is half the fun (he muttered under his breath as he stomped his way to the CW with new belts in hand).

Just bugs me because I was hoping to get it shipped out in the morning. Anyway, on my way to put the new belts on. We'll get her done!

[Audie]

Hey Audie,

Well I'm not cutting that middle section out. That's the back of a pierced carving. I had to remove the entire back so when I turn it over and carve the front it will carve right through. Then the mirror will sit behind the pierced carving in what's left around the edges.

Ohhhhhhh Woooooow! A pierced carving! I should have known something as simple as my suggestion would not have escaped the Chris Man! Rock on Chris and I look forward to seeing the finished work!

Audie

[atauer]

Ohhhhhhh Woooooow! A pierced carving! I should have known something as simple as my suggestion would not have escaped the Chris Man! Rock on Chris and I look forward to seeing the finished work!

Audie

Audie,

We all look forward to seeing the finished work! Especially the original designer. He is probably sweating bullets right now wondering if his gift will come out correctly!

[ChrisAlb]

Audie,

We all look forward to seeing the finished work! Especially the original designer. He is probably sweating bullets right now wondering if his gift will come out correctly!

Don't worry Alex, you did a BANG UP JOB on the design. We definitely should have made that region a little deeper though. It's not piercing all the way through and I believe there will be a bit of dremel work to clean it all out.

Either that, and I just had this thought, I'll run my belt sander on the back of it to sand the rest away. Either way, I believe this is going to be one SWEET piece!!!....http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[atauer]

That is great to hear! I actually am sweating bullets right now! I can't wait to see the finished piece. I wish that my internet service at the new house was hooked up already that way I can keep an eye on the forum.

[cnsranch]

I just looked at the original mpc you posted, and found a bunch of mistakes that Chris didn't find.

Sorry I didn't see them sooner.

Oh well, she may not notice.

[ChrisAlb]

I just looked at the original mpc you posted, and found a bunch of mistakes that Chris didn't find.

Sorry I didn't see them sooner.

Oh well, she may not notice.

Say what???? That's just not nice Jerry!!! No more help with your son's kitchen now buddy....LOL And besides, you couldn't have looked at the MPC because he didn't post it. It had commercial patterns in it. http://forum.carvewright.com/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

Alex, I'd be kidding you if I said I wasn't sweating a few slugs myself. What with a bad QC the other day, broken traction belt this morning while measuring it and the ever looming threat of power failure on a long carve...LOL...WHEW!

[cnsranch]

Couldn't resist!!

Gotcha :cool:

[ChrisAlb]

Couldn't resist!!

Gotcha :cool:

ahh..what does a senior member demoted to a JUNIOR member know anyway?? :rolleyes:

[cnsranch]

Seriously, Chris - if you have the time, run it over to Al's and put the piece thru his drum sander - it's tailor made for what you need.

[cnsranch]

ahh..what does a senior member demoted to a JUNIOR member know anyway?? :rolleyes:

Yeah, they looked at my stuff and thought - "man, we gotta raise the bar on member status".

[ChrisAlb]

Seriously, Chris - if you have the time, run it over to Al's and put the piece thru his drum sander - it's tailor made for what you need.

That would be a little tough with the 1/4 deep region on the back. Do you suppose Al would let me cut his drum sander to fit inside it?? LOL

[atauer]

That would be a little tough with the 1/4 deep region on the back. Do you suppose Al would let me cut his drum sander to fit inside it?? LOL

He might! He probably got a spare hanging around his place somewhere!

[cnsranch]

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that part... :rolleyes:

[atauer]

Any further updates Chris?

[ChrisAlb]

Just did a vacuum....34%.....LOL

Carving well Alex but it's gonna be a looooooooong night. I'm still waiting for enough of it to come out of the CW so I can get a picture for ya.

The suspense is killing ya huh? http://forum.carvewright.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

[atauer]

Yes it is. The tension is so thick that you could probably cut it with a knife!

[ChrisAlb]

Yea...lol...here too.

I tell you one thing, LHR definitely needs to put the STOP button MUCH further away from the ENTER button. I darn near hit stop when going to restart after cleaning.

Made my heart jump when I saw my finger over that button just in the nick of time.

[TerryT]

Done that.

[supershingler]

hope your fingers arent too fat chris

cant wait to see the final results.

just a suggestions for your back cutout needing to be deeper could you make a jig for a router and put in a rabbet bit and set the depth you need and get it done q uicker that dremelling everything.
a piece of 3/4" plywood with your router mounted to it and twice as long as the project is wide should do the trick



kendall

[HelpBot3000]

Chris, I'm reminded of that part in "The Waterboy" with Adam Sandler...


"YOU CAN DO IT!!!!" :D

[ChrisAlb]

Sorry guys...eating some dinner.

Terry, yep...http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon11.gif...me too

Kendall, yep, fingers are kinda large. Many of the details on the face are too fine to risk a router. My belt sander from the back should make quick work of the situation. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Barry, No doubt...http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[MetroGnome]

Doing a fairly large mirror project in oak. It's 11.25 x 35.25. The project front is pretty fancy and the back needs to be plowed out for the glass at .25 deep and 10.25 x 34.25. Carving in Best mode it's a 24+ hour carve. The region on the back alone was an 8:58:19 carve!!! LOL...you must be kidding me...LOL

Since the front is a pierced carving, I couldn't see adding that much time to just hog out the back. So I cheated a bit.

I set up the same rectangle I would for the region but just applied the 1/8 cut bit to the path at .25 deep with a 1/16" inset to get my finished 10.25 x 34.25 size. Then I used straight lines 9.875 long across the width at 3/8 apart and applied the 3/8 straight bit at .25 deep. All in it took 1:28:32 to carve out the back.

I also did the back in a separate file so I can start the 13:15:23 hour front carve in the morning. Too late to start it now....lol

Note: As you can see in picture 2, Unlike "dust" from the carving bit, the chips pile up fast so be ready to vacuum it out often. This was after the first 6 passes.

Out of curiousity, why didn't you just hog that out with a router? I would think a couple of rails to support the router and a flat bottom bit would save a ton of time for you and wear on your CarveWright.

Bill

[ChrisAlb]

Out of curiousity, why didn't you just hog that out with a router? I would think a couple of rails to support the router and a flat bottom bit would save a ton of time for you and wear on your CarveWright.

Bill

Hey Bill,

Well several reasons really.

1) limited shop space in the basement to set it up.
2) Using rails and a router would mean having to fasten those rails to the workpiece somehow.
3) I'd have to space the rails so close together as to not allow the edge of the router base to come off either one and possibly tip so a 2-3/4 space Max.
4) I'd have to continually move them down the board and refasten them.
5) I'd have to set up end stops to be sure not to go past the 1/2" border.
6) While I have done it many times on many things on the job site, have you ever tried to hold onto a router while hogging out a 1/4 deep x 3/8 wide cut in oak?...LOL..it can be a fight.
7) Without the resistance and control of the servo motors, you know how easy it is to tear out chunks and in that channel created by the rails, they'd have no place to go but back into the bit.
8) With my back disability, just the "thought" of bending over a bench to do that HURTS...LOL
9) I had other things to do while it was carving......http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
10) Hey, that's what I bought this puppy for.....http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

But as you can see, the thought had crossed my mind. http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Merry Christmas!!

[atauer]

Chris,

We are all anxious to know how it turned out! Any pictures as of yet?

[cnsranch]

Alex -

Take a pill :p

[ChrisAlb]

Chris,

We are all anxious to know how it turned out! Any pictures as of yet?

Hang on there buddy...working on them. Carve finished at 3:10 this morning so I'm running on empty. I should have put my last reply in this thread...LOL

[ChrisAlb]

In the mean time Alex.......read this....

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?p=74292#post74292

we need one thread for this.....jezzzz....LOL

[atauer]

Yeah!

Your right Chris. One thread would be great. Maybe we should start a new thread with the finished results....

[ChrisAlb]

OK, I'll do that now in the Gallery under Alex's Mirror....OK?

[atauer]

Sounds good to me!

[ChrisAlb]

On second thought, let's just leave it here as so many members will look here for the results.....LOL

Man I'm tired...LOL

Pictures coming up.....

[ChrisAlb]

OK....untouched from the CW.

Picture 1 is the file by Alex.

2) Fresh from the CW and still in the sled.

3) After some VERY careful prying off the double sided tape to to get it out of the sled. This baby is pretty thin overall.

4) Is some of the fine detail I hope survives the removal of the material around it. Those stems are only about 1/16 tall & carved on top of the wafer thin material left that has to be removed.

5) Is a shot down the length of the face.

Couple more close ups coming........

[cnsranch]

Quite a project - now the hard part starts...

You better pull out your xacto knives.

[ChrisAlb]

1) I added a small carved region to keep the DOT connected to the I

2) The Text is actually a pattern. I saw in the file when tilted it was a little rough around the edges but I couldn't do anything about the pattern. Some careful sanding needed around the name for sure.

I'm thinking a piece of 1/4" backer board in the mirror recess and an exacto knife to remove the material that didn't pierce through AFTER using a dremel with a sanding drum to go around the text sides.

What do you think Alex?

[atauer]

:O

WOW!

That came out great! It does have a little more work that needs to be done, but I have an area to work in now! One step closer to getting that machine!

Chris, get some sleep man! I wasn't expecting you to pull an all nighter on this one!

[cnsranch]

The material should be pretty easy to clean up - just don't yawn with the knife in your hand!!

[atauer]

The material should be pretty easy to clean up - just don't yawn with the knife in your hand!!

Don't try to rub your eyes either!

[ChrisAlb]

:O

WOW!

That came out great! It does have a little more work that needs to be done, but I have an area to work in now! One step closer to getting that machine!

Chris, get some sleep man! I wasn't expecting you to pull an all nighter on this one!

Not much choice Alex...LOL. If I hadn't stayed with it to clean it out, I didn't think I would have been able to even see the CW this morning.

Besides, only my wife could sleep through that racket....LOL But I've had 4 cups of coffee and ready for the day now.

[Eagle Hollow]

Chris & Alex,

What an incredible project! Everyone else...you can breathe now!

[cnsranch]

Man, a mini oscillating spindle sander would be worth it weight, wouldn't it?

[atauer]

Chris & Alex,

What an incredible project! Everyone else...you can breathe now!

I'm not gonna sleep well until it gets here!

[ChrisAlb]

Man, a mini oscillating spindle sander would be worth it weight, wouldn't it?

I don't know Jerry. That text is only like a 1/4 inch thick. Places like the spirals on the M wouldn't take much to snap. That's why I'm thinking sanding before removing the excess material around it. Helps support it.


Now I just have to come up with enough wood to carve 4 replacement sleigh sides that got ruined when my QC was on it's way out. Two of the three sleighs i was making for X-mas presents need sides.

I thought I could salvage them but after a lot of grinding, they just kept getting worse and worse looking.

[MetroGnome]

Hey Bill,

Well several reasons really.

1) limited shop space in the basement to set it up.
2) Using rails and a router would mean having to fasten those rails to the workpiece somehow.
3) I'd have to space the rails so close together as to not allow the edge of the router base to come off either one and possibly tip so a 2-3/4 space Max.
4) I'd have to continually move them down the board and refasten them.
5) I'd have to set up end stops to be sure not to go past the 1/2" border.
6) While I have done it many times on many things on the job site, have you ever tried to hold onto a router while hogging out a 1/4 deep x 3/8 wide cut in oak?...LOL..it can be a fight.
7) Without the resistance and control of the servo motors, you know how easy it is to tear out chunks and in that channel created by the rails, they'd have no place to go but back into the bit.
8) With my back disability, just the "thought" of bending over a bench to do that HURTS...LOL
9) I had other things to do while it was carving......http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
10) Hey, that's what I bought this puppy for.....http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

But as you can see, the thought had crossed my mind. http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Merry Christmas!!

1, 8, 9 and 10 are clearly enough reason individually. Taken together it seems like an easy choice.

[HighTechOkie]

Why not run the back piece through again and lower the carving depth just like you hogged out the back already, just a hair deeper?

Rob

[HelpBot3000]

I noticed Chris hasn't been on much today. lol. Get some rest Bud, you earned it!

[atauer]

I've had 4 cups of coffee and ready for the day now.

I don't think 4 cups of coffee was enough for him.

HB3K, he needs to try some of our shipping manager's coffee.

That will keep him awake!

:)

[ChrisAlb]

Hey Now.....WHO'S not awake? I'm just trying to get these 2 sets of replacement sleigh sides carved. A couple more all nighters and I just might make the gift giving on time. Sanded and got the stain on # 1 today.

Just fixed my Y belt. It was loose after that....ummmm...all night carve in oak. Had to put two washers on the tension screw to get it tight enough and just got the first set of sides going.

LOL...you lightweights have NO idea....LOL

Tired? asleep? not working?.....jeeezzz....:rolleyes:....LOL

[LollyWood]

I'm still here wit ya Bro. The twins are crank'n out the last 2 sets of innards. Have the stain all shook and the sander is all warmed up from the sides. Figure I'll get em done in time for some coffee and a shower before my shift starts. All Hail the Saw dust Gods. Ooops...#1 needs vacuum. Merry Christmas :D

[ChrisAlb]

Hey buddy!

Good to hear the twins are cooking. My inners are all sanded and just waiting for some sides. First set should be done carving about 9 or so. mama had to hear the CW whine until 3:10 this morning so the next set will have to wait till sunrise....http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon9.gif.

I won't put her through that two nights in a row...LOL

Merry Christmas Bernie. Hoping for no calls at your station tonight.

[Tom75]

hey chris that is some excillent woork .

[Lin]

Chris, I"m looking at the pics and wishing you were close by.....I could cut out the waste that didn't come out while carving for you in about twenty minutes or so on my scrollsaw. That my friend is one thing I am very good and accurate with...wishing you were just down the street like you are from Al. It's going to be awesome when its done.

Alex, You are one special guy.....Your wife is going give you such big hugs....lol and.......
well I can't say....lol
Lin

[ChrisAlb]

Thanks Tom but Alex deserves the credit. Heck, all I did was feed the card and some wood to my machine. He designed it and a great job he did of it too.

Lin, the material is really thin and will come out fairly easily. I offered but Alex wants to tackle it so all i need to do now is cut the extra blocks off the ends and pack it up and ship it.

We actually came to the conclusion that it's best to leave it in there for shipping. Parts of those letters and some of the finer details can snap very easily.

[Lin]

Have to admit...I have been watching this one come together on the edge of my seat....and now we have to wait till Alex gets it and he does his part to finish up what you and he started...I know his wife is gonna flip...
Lin

[atauer]

Chris, I"m looking at the pics and wishing you were close by.....I could cut out the waste that didn't come out while carving for you in about twenty minutes or so on my scrollsaw. That my friend is one thing I am very good and accurate with...wishing you were just down the street like you are from Al. It's going to be awesome when its done.

Alex, You are one special guy.....Your wife is going give you such big hugs....lol and.......
well I can't say....lol
Lin

Lin,

Let's keep it PG here. I can't wait for it to get here. I have a lot of work to do on it, but I finally have the room to do it. I love the studio that sits behind our new house! It has some work that needs to be done on the inside: insulation, sheetrock, paint, etc. but I can handle all of that. I'm just glad that the framework is already done. Makes things easier!

[HelpBot3000]

I don't think 4 cups of coffee was enough for him.

HB3K, he needs to try some of our shipping manager's coffee.

That will keep him awake!

:)

Alex, are you kidding me? Jose's coffee could wake up an elephant! That stuff resembles caffeinated tar as opposed to coffee. For some reason though, it still smells good. Go figure.

[atauer]

Well, I just got some news from our friend Chris. He shipped the project Friday. So, now we play the waiting/hoping game (waiting for arrival, hoping its in one piece). After I recieve it, I'll get to work finishing it. Hopefully, the item should be here by the end of the week or beginning of next week. So, I should be posting the finished project within a couple weeks.

[LollyWood]

Come on Alex...Give!!!!:D

[atauer]

Come on Alex...Give!!!!:D

Bernie,

I have yet to receive it. It is scheduled to be delivered by UPS today.

I can not wait until it gets here! I am ready to see it myself!

Trust me, once I get it, there will be posts, blog entries, pictures, etc.

:)

[atauer]

I finally got an update. The piece just came in off the truck and let me tell you, I was extremely nervous when I got the box.

I cut it open and found it full of CRUSHED packing material. My heart dropped! After digging through the material, I found the piece. I pulled it out and opened it. It was not hurt in one bit!

Here are a few pics of what it looks like, straight from the box.

[HelpBot3000]

You guys have no idea how nervous this man has been about getting this project in. It looks great! Chris, as always, I am in awe of your ability. Much kudos, sir.

[atauer]

You guys have no idea how nervous this man has been about getting this project in. It looks great! Chris, as always, I am in awe of your ability. Much kudos, sir.

Nervous is an understatement! I have been sweating bullets since it was first sent by Chris.

I'm gonna give him a call on lunch to give him an update on things.

[Tom75]

ithat is awsom