Flexshaft

[FiddlemakerMills]

Preformed the new procedure today. I found no indication of lub on the flex shaft. I recommend the new Sears CC machine owners check their machine before use.

Lucky I started reading the posts here before I burned up a flex shaft.

Carl

[Woodman]

Fiddlemaker: Make sure you let the lube dry before you insert that shaft into the top hat. If lube gets into the spindle bearings they tend to self destruct! John: My wire core falls out of the rubber sheath all too easily. No tugging or pulling of any sort is required. Ummmm. . . this is undoubtedly a very stupid question but you aren't pulling on the sheath are you? The square ended wire core should fall right out with no problem. Call Carvewright if you have any more problems. . . the techs are very helpful, I've seldom had any problems getting thru to one of them, indeed I've even requested a specific tech now and then and not had to wait too long. Did your shaft get REAL HOT at one time or another? Could it be partially melted to the wire core? Good luck and stick with it. . . the forum is a wonderful resource because there is a learning curve to this machine! . . . Pete

[FiddlemakerMills]

Pete

It is drying overnight, I will install it in the morning.

Thanks

Carl

[AWoodsmith]

Ok guys, I am a newbie, but have carved some nice stuff. My flex shaft got real hot last weekend and it took over 8 hours to carve a 3 hour project due to cool off times. I cannot find the Gunk or Liquid wrench with moly anywhere locally but I did buy STA-Lube Extreme pressure Moly-Graph multi purpose grease. I am going to use this for now and see what happens. I will order the exact stuff suggested on line, but I want to get some stuff done while waiting. I am going to lube it now and let it sit a couple of hours. So if I should not tell me now or for ever hold your peace...

Ed

[lon711]

Hey just thought I let you know that I didn't take the tie off mine but this mornning I was running a project and it started to smokeing and I got mine from LHR

[mtylerfl]

Hello Ed,

Welcome to the Forum!

In case you are wondering...the twistie tie is there for a reason - do not remove it. Sort of make-shift, but it is there to make sure the wire that holds the loop in shape doesn't go off to one side or another. (I was talking to the inventor of the machine a few days ago about that very subject - he says, "Don't remove it.".)

Also, I would be very cautious about using a lube not actually recommended by LHR. You might call them first before using "an alternative" to what has actually been tested and approved. ;)

[Amonaug]

Hello Ed,

Welcome to the Forum!

In case you are wondering...the twistie tie is there for a reason - do not remove it. Sort of make-shift, but it is there to make sure the wire that holds the loop in shape doesn't go off to one side or another. (I was talking to the inventor of the machine a few days ago about that very subject - he says, "Don't remove it.".)

Also, I would be very cautious about using a lube not actually recommended by LHR. You might call them first before using "an alternative" to what has actually been tested and approved. ;)

Now that is strange, just about every post here says remove the damn thing although IMO it's not necessary. Many claim it's at that spot where the tie was that the flexshaft melted through the covering.

[mtylerfl]

Now that is strange, just about every post here says remove the damn thing although IMO it's not necessary. Many claim it's at that spot where the tie was that the flexshaft melted through the covering.

Hi Kevin,

I actually mentioned that to Chris, and he says that the cause of folks experiencing that problem was likely an improper lubrication issue (i.e., lack thereof or incorrect type). He said the "bend" of the loop will be where the flex shaft is most likely to overheat/melt if improperly lubed or worn out, but it has nothing to do at all with the twist tie.

He did mention they were looking into a little "classier" alternative to the twist tie holding the loop wire in place, though!

[Dan-Woodman]

I know what you all are thinking and no, duck tape would not be appropriate in this case.
later Daniel

[mtylerfl]

I know what you all are thinking and no, duck tape would not be appropriate in this case.
later Daniel

That's good, Daniel! :D

P.S. - I'll bet LHR will move these posts out of this section - this section is supposed to be only for CarveWright Announcements

[cnsranch]

Dammit, the first thing I did was to take the tie off -

Take a look at the attached from Ken... (last post on the page)

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=4526&page=3

[Bubbabear]

Humm when mine returned and they replaced the flex shaft and all they did not put the tie back on the unit. So do I need to find a tie and put back on there?

[Jeff_Birt]

I have a few wraps of electrical tape on mine. That has lasted about two years now.

[Audie]

Jeff,

Based on a recommendation earlier this year I also removed the Twist Tie and loosely wrapped electrical tape in the same spot. I do not have any heat issues there....and my CW has been to LHR for a repair with the electrical tape and came back the same way. I am very comfortable with the modification.

Audie

[atauer]

Gentlemen,

I have moved the posts to this new thread, as the "Announcement" section is strictly for announcements. If you have any issues regarding the machine, please post in the actual user part of the forum.

Thanks again,

[mtylerfl]

Jeff,

Based on a recommendation earlier this year I also removed the Twist Tie and loosely wrapped electrical tape in the same spot. I do not have any heat issues there....and my CW has been to LHR for a repair with the electrical tape and came back the same way. I am very comfortable with the modification.

Audie

Right, - apparently it doesn't matter whether you use the twist tie or "whatever", just needs something there to hold the wire in position for keeping the flexshaft loop in the proper shape.

[DStimpson]

Well, the first carve on the machine was done with the twist-tie on......and at that very spot the flex-shaft sheath melted and smoked and I stopped the carve.

I replaced the flex-shaft and removed the twist-tie.

I have been carving ever since without the twist tie and everything is working fine. I have over 100 carving hours on the machine. I lube the flex-shaft when my spot thermometer indicates it is trending consistently higher.

I don't plan to use the twist-tie or anything like it.

DStimpson

[Jeff_Birt]

Well, the first carve on the machine was done with the twist-tie on......and at that very spot the flex-shaft sheath melted and smoked and I stopped the carve.


That had nothing to do with the twist tie. The twist tie just happens to be at the location where there is the greatest bend in the cable. The area with the most bend generates the most heat. It was a lubrication issue.

[mtylerfl]

That's fine - totally up to you.

Realize though, that the wire must be in the proper position (not slipping off the flex loop to one side or the other). So if it is staying in place "on its own" then you shouldn't have any problem - just keep an eye on it.

Again, the tightest part of the loop will be where the flex shaft would be prone to fail if there is an inherent problem with the metal core itself, but the idea that the twistie tie somehow facilitated your particular issue is not the case. It actually helps prevent excess friction by keeping the loop in its proper orientation.:)

Edit: Jeff beat me to it - right, the twistie tie had nothing to do with his problem.

[ChrisAlb]

Funny, :confused: mine never had a twist tie and aparently, never needed one. Still on my original flex shaft. 350+ hours. Doesn't even get warm. No problems.

Have used Crane Cams # 99002-1 Assembly lube from almost day one.

[mtylerfl]

Yeah, as long as the support wire stays in place to keep the flex loop in shape you're fine. The tie, or tape, or whatever, just keeps the support wire in place "for sure".

I have only lubed my two machine's flexshafts once (Liquid Wrench Chainsaw Lube w/Moly). Never had a warmth/heat problem with the flexshafts either. Sounds like the Crane Cams is just as good and long-lasting.

[ChrisAlb]

Hey Michael,

It's so good to be back in here again. I've really missed being a part of everything. Yea the Crane cam lube is great. 40% moly and doesn't liquefy.

I lube mine roughly every 40 to 50 hours but honestly, it doesn't really need it that much. It's not that it starts getting hot or anything. Just a preventative "piece of mind" precaution for me.

[fwharris]

Hey Chris welcome back!

I've been using the Crane Cam (thanks Chris) and it has done a great job. You can put it on the shaft and start carving (no wait time).

As for the twist tie, after I melted mine (less than 10 hrs carve time) and called into LHR they said the twist tie should be removed. I know it was probably not the cause for the melt down, but I have ran with out the tie or tape on the shaft since then.

Now with Michael's comments and recall back to the few times that I have cleaned out the inside of the shaft housing I did notice that there seemed to be some wear (grooves) on the inside at about the spot of the curved area. I thought it might be just normal wear of the shaft, but now I think it might not be.

[pine acres woodshop]

Where can one find this Crane Cams # 99002-1 Assembly lube.

Mark

[fwharris]

Where can one find this Crane Cams # 99002-1 Assembly lube.

Mark

Mark,

I got mine from an automotive machine shop. They did not stock it but was more than willing to order it for me. Others have found it at auto part stores and Harley shops.

[GrammaPam]

Since we're talking about it (sort of) does anyone know the temprature parameters for the flex shaft. Mine's been running warmer than I think it should. Someone suggested a digital thermometer so I've been keeping track: 1st job 99 degrees by front, 107 at arch and 81 by back of machine, second carving 89 degrees by front of cutting truck, 99 at arch and 75 degrees by back, third job 94 at arch, 104 by front, next job 97 by front, 109 at arch and 83 at back, next job 94 degrees front, 105 at arch, 81 at back, next project 11 at front, 114 at arch and 89 at back. Most recent carving was on oak 100 degrees by front, 187 at arch 84 at back.
I've had this machine for a week. They say if you can put your hand on it it's okay but my other machine wasn't this warm. Who knows the most on this subject?
Thanks so much
G.P.

[MikeMcCoy]

If you are getting temps of 187, you are getting ready to lose a flex shaft. How long has it been since you lubed?

[ChrisAlb]

Where can one find this Crane Cams # 99002-1 Assembly lube.

Mark

Hi Mark,

I get mine from my local NAPA auto parts store. Our local NAPA happens to stock it but I've heard others do not. But they can order it for you and normally have it in a day or two.

As it lasts so long, I've only bought one pack which contains two flexible pouches for I think about ten bucks. I'm not even halfway through the first pouch and I bought this about 8 or 9 months ago.

[pine acres woodshop]

Thanks for the locations,I appreciate it. I'm heading out this morning to get my windshield fixed (don't you just love roadway debris), I'll see if I can find some. Thanks again.

Mark

[GrammaPam]

Hi,
I know we're sort of on two sides of the same question here. I do think anyone interested in one side should know about the other side too. Mike's question to me was "how long since I've lubed the flexshaft" Got the machine new last Friday (7 days ago) after 4 carvings I was concerned so I did lube it in case it had been in transit or on store shelf too long or if factory didn't, so I lubed it with the stuff containing moly. Made sure to seat the core in well. Glad to get a response that confirms it is not normal to run this warm. I did call tech support. Mark said if you can touch it, it's okay. I'm nervous, I don't want two machines down. Any more ideas?
Thanks
G.P.

[Amonaug]

187?! That's not a typo? You are lucky the shaft didn't turn to liquid.

From one post by a tech the spindle shouldn't get much above 120, I use this as a guide for the shaft. When carves start getting in the 120+ range it's time for a lube and then they drop back down to the 90-110 range.

Ambient temp also has an effect on flexshaft temp.

[Ray]

I tried to find the Crane Cams local but couldn't find it. I bought some Lucas assembly lube but haven't applied it yet. It's a zinc and moly blend. http://www.jegs.com/i/Lucas+Oil/639/10152/10002/-1 Is this acceptable by CW?

I was looking at McMaster-Carr http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCtlgPage.aspx?reqtyp=catalog&CtlgPgNbr=2112&CtlgEdition=114&k1=1163K25&t1=PN&ScreenWidth=1024&McMMainWidth=814&sesnextrep=480612740462953 and Grainger http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5E200 and found these. Should I get one of these instead?

I just got my machine a week ago and haven't ran it yet. That may be hard to believe but I want to make sure I don't end up one of the people with a down machine because of lack of knowledge. ;) I don't think the flex-shaft is lubed very well from the factory. Since it's an important part of the maintenance I am surprised a small tube of moly grease isn't sent with the new machine.

It's been real helpful reading the forum. Hopefully I will be able to contribute in the future.

[brady.schwyhart]

Ray,
You really don't want to use moly "grease" on your flex shaft. I got a can of liquid wrench chain lube "with moly" at an O'Reillys autoparts store. It's a liquid spray that has moly in it. I sprayed my shaft with it, let it set overnight, wiped off the excess the next day and let er rip. That was over 8 months and dozens of carves ago and my flex shaft is not even starting to get warm yet.
Brady

[Hexe SA]

or True Value Hardware don't want to order it for you I went to the local Welding supply store, they actually had some. Large Can for $17.00.
Eva

[GrammaPam]

Hi Folks, Gramma Pam here again. Still having flexshaft over heating problems. Please read through to the bottom of this rather lengthy post if you are really intersted in helping solve the problem.
No 187 isn't a typo. Ordered and tried the Cranes Cam Assembly Lube, still overheating, called tech support again. Barry said the stuff I was using originally was the same that they use at the factory, CRC #0572B, I found from Grainger. Wiped off all the Cranes and applied CRC again, let set overnight, wiped with cloth (as per Andre at tech support) Still over heating, right at the bend of the arch. Had quite a conversation with Andre today. He suggested that it originally overheated because I didn't lube it before I used the machine, read page 10 in manual, # 4 & 5, it does not say to lube before using) There was 1 1/2 hours on the cut motor and traces of sawdust in the machine so I knew it had been tested at the factory. Used the machine for a little more than 3 hours before lubing it. Kept track of temperture every few minutes. Andre said that's why it overheated, I over-lubed it (it was heating up before, that's why I lubed it) I did order a new flex shaft as I am too concerned for the safety of the machine and the common sense of the situation to accept this as normal. I will contact customer service with the validity of the charge since it was obviously not right to start with.

Enough of my problem, the question is the how common is this problem with over heating at the bend of the flex shaft. Obviously it is not a singular situation. I ran my original carvewright 94 hours before lubing it the first time, it was always comfortable to the touch (that's the machine in the repair department in Texas right now) I only started using a digital thermometer with the new machine because I had one and it felt a little warmer than the other machine right off. Also the shaft measures warmer on the side closer to the center of the machine. I asked before who knows the most on this subject. I'd appreciate hearing from a few more of you out there. I'd really rather be happy with the machine and the company and make lots of nice stuff and for other people to not have the problems I've been having. Let's see if we can solve this. Please.
Thanks
G.P.

[Amonaug]

Hi Folks, Gramma Pam here again. Still having flexshaft over heating problems. Please read through to the bottom of this rather lengthy post if you are really intersted in helping solve the problem.
No 187 isn't a typo. Ordered and tried the Cranes Cam Assembly Lube, still overheating, called tech support again. Barry said the stuff I was using originally was the same that they use at the factory, CRC #0572B, I found from Grainger. Wiped off all the Cranes and applied CRC again, let set overnight, wiped with cloth (as per Andre at tech support) Still over heating, right at the bend of the arch. Had quite a conversation with Andre today. He suggested that it originally overheated because I didn't lube it before I used the machine, read page 10 in manual, # 4 & 5, it does not say to lube before using) There was 1 1/2 hours on the cut motor and traces of sawdust in the machine so I knew it had been tested at the factory. Used the machine for a little more than 3 hours before lubing it. Kept track of temperture every few minutes. Andre said that's why it overheated, I over-lubed it (it was heating up before, that's why I lubed it) I did order a new flex shaft as I am too concerned for the safety of the machine and the common sense of the situation to accept this as normal. I will contact customer service with the validity of the charge since it was obviously not right to start with.

Enough of my problem, the question is the how common is this problem with over heating at the bend of the flex shaft. Obviously it is not a singular situation. I ran my original carvewright 94 hours before lubing it the first time, it was always comfortable to the touch (that's the machine in the repair department in Texas right now) I only started using a digital thermometer with the new machine because I had one and it felt a little warmer than the other machine right off. Also the shaft measures warmer on the side closer to the center of the machine. I asked before who knows the most on this subject. I'd appreciate hearing from a few more of you out there. I'd really rather be happy with the machine and the company and make lots of nice stuff and for other people to not have the problems I've been having. Let's see if we can solve this. Please.
Thanks
G.P.

Out of curiosity what is the silencing spring's condition? (the spring inside the flexshaft) Does it perhaps have a pinched area near where the bend is that is producing more friction than normal?

[Ray]

Ray,
You really don't want to use moly "grease" on your flex shaft. I got a can of liquid wrench chain lube "with moly" at an O'Reillys autoparts store. It's a liquid spray that has moly in it. I sprayed my shaft with it, let it set overnight, wiped off the excess the next day and let er rip. That was over 8 months and dozens of carves ago and my flex shaft is not even starting to get warm yet.
Brady

Thanks Brady. I will pick up a can tomorrow. Maybe get it carving by the weekend. :-D

Ray

[GrammaPam]

Hi Kevin,
I've checked the core and the spring and the shaft, all look fine. Z-truck and cutting motor both running cool enough. Doesn't matter if 1/16 carving bit, one of the V bits or one of the ogee bits. I have yet to use a cutting or jointing bit.
Thanks for your concern
G.P.

[rstudley]

Related to this overheating, there is not enough mention of the importance of seating the square core end into the motor end, but more importantly into the cutter's T-hat. If the end of the core doesn't go into the hole, but is skewed and sits on the edge of the hole, it compresses the core, as the manual says. But even if the end isn't seated you can feel the core turning. I have---twice--- run the machine and within 5 minutes melted through the flexshaft.
So now I get under the QC with a mirror when I connect the flexshaft. If you bounce a flashlight off the mirror, you can see clearly whether that square is into the hole, looking up through the chuck opening.
I am getting good results using lithium grease in addition to moly spray. I am using lube every 10 hours or so. Another bit of advice, when you disconnect the flexarm, don't pull up too hard on that cutting carriage, you will pull the carriage loose on it's track and it's back to the factory. I was told there was nothing that could be hurt by pulling up on that disconnect---not so! It's definitely a twisting action. Also a little WD-40 on the end of the shaft detent seems to make it easier to remove next time.

[mtylerfl]

Hello,

Yes, proper seating of the flex core into the square holes at each end is essential. Sorry you had trouble with that. I believe the instructions actually do mention to be careful about seating the core properly and also where to grab to pull the flexshaft from "with a slight twisting motion".

Also, I believe it is NOT a good idea to combine lithium grease with the moly lubricant. In fact, lithium grease should not be used at all on the flexshaft core - they found out early on that it breaks down too quickly and can facilitate overheating instead of preventing it.

Lubing every 10 hours is not what I would call normal. I lubed both flexshafts on my 2 machines with the Chain Lube with moly almost 2 years ago - ONCE. (Wiped off all traces of the lithium prior to using the moly lube).

Never have had to re-lube either one since then (but I do place my hand on the flexshaft to check for warmth as a "monitor" for when I may need to relube again).

I suspect that the combination of lithium and the moly lube is contributing to and/or causing the premature breakdown of the lube's effectiveness.

Make sure that the wire loop is holding the flexshaft arc in position. The twist tie is what that is for - do not remove it.

[rstudley]

I agree, and my point is that you can't really be sure that square end is in the hole without visual inspection with a mirror from below. When you rotate the QC chuck, you can feel the shaft turn inside the sleeve and hear the motor turning, even though the flexshaft end's not in the hole. When you start it up, it is very little time until meltdown.

[GrammaPam]

I will try the mirror suggestion. I have felt for the cutting motor to assure that end was inserted correctly, done sensor checks and felt the "spring" react in the QC when the core is inserted (not the flexshaft cooling spring, that is different) It can't be repeated enough that without the input of you folks the Carvewright wouldn't be half the fun it is, and even with the frustration we all sometimes seem to have it's still more fun than... well just about anything else.
G.P.

[rstudley]

Is there a particular sensor check that gives information about the flexshaft assembly? I'd like to know more, if that was what you meant. Thanks!

[Amonaug]

Is there a particular sensor check that gives information about the flexshaft assembly? I'd like to know more, if that was what you meant. Thanks!

Only one I know of is the RPM sensor.

[GrammaPam]

Hi Rstudley,
Looks like we joined the forum about the same time. The Sensor Check only indicates the turns of the bit, which, if the flexshaft is making it turn, should confirm the flexshaft is operating as intended.
When pressing "O" Options on the carver keyboard toggle to the Sensor Check (7) spin the spindle by hand to see the displayed numerical values change. It reads one count for every revolution. At low speeds it will only change from 0 to 1 or 2.
This is on the last page of the manual.
Different things are important at different times and what we can absorb increases as we become more comfortable with what we have learned.
As a novice I appreciate that sometimes the senior members help each other, too. We all know different things. The smartest and most experienced person gets that way because they continue to learn. Former president Jimmy Carter is a marvelous wood worker, certainly smarter than the averge person, I wonder if he has a Carvewright yet.
G.P.