Bit adapters and the QC

[Amonaug]

Everyone should have read or should read the http://www.carvewright.com/cms/downloads (Care and Maintenance of the Quick Change).

I know that several times it has been mentioned that if you see BB marks on the adapter that it's a sign the QC is going bad. As I found out today this MAY not be true. It could just be a sign of a worn adapter.

If while carving you check the bit and it has some play at the tip check the adapter for wear as well as the QC. It was recommended to me to change adapters every 40-50 hours or or if wear is showing. What happens is the tapered end wears away and becomes loose allowing it to bang around inside the QC and against the ball bearings that hold it in place. This shows up as BB marks. When this happens it just gets worse from there.

Check the QC and make sure the bearings are tight and there is no damage to the slots where the set screws sit. If the QC looks fine then all that is probably needed are new adapters which are much more inexpensive.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Kevin,

Looks like a plan.... Give us weekly update on the bit holders. It could be I jumped the gun replacing the QC at the first BB Marks. I did have one QC that gave me BB marks on a new holder in 30 min....

Looking forward to your results.

AL

[Amonaug]

Well....my QC seems OK but I'm still getting loose bits and slight BB marks on a brand new adapter. So there may be something else wrong, One suggestion was the spindle bearings going but again they seem OK. Hell the used machine is more quiet than my newer machine :)

It's hard to tell but when I spin the chuck by hand there might be a slight offset wiggle to the bit tip but the flutes make it kind of hard to definitely tell.

It could be that there is wear on the taper part of the QC allowing movement and would require replacement, unfortunately this QC only has maybe 30 hours on it.

[liquidguitars]

I 2 have questioned the BB mark / time to replace QC idea.. my thinking is the bit adapters are a softer steel than the QC so replacment of the adapter is first on the list.


It's hard to tell but when I spin the chuck by hand there might be a slight offset wiggle to the bit tip but the flutes make it kind of hard to definitely tell.

I have given up on having zero runout with the QC and just live with the 1 mm to 2 mm play even all new part gives the same results :( Under power the bit looks clean, so the bit could tighten as it spins..

To check, use the wiggle test. wiggle the bit, wiggle the truck Z and Y glides, check the QC to see if it VERY tight on the arbor.

look over the spindel bearings and top hat retainer "on the Bottom of spindel " Z truck needs to be removed to see best.

For my shaper I have a gage to set the runout for the knifes, that works well 2.


LG

[cncjunky]

hi i have the same problem when i first got the machine. but i found out that most the time when we put the bit in the QC we think it the bit not felt off then it secure in there. but some time bit holder it not complete sit all the way up in the QC the outer ring of the QC is not completely push down, therefore when the machine carving it started to wear out the hole where bit holder sit on make sure when you put the bit on make sure the outer QC ring is completly push down and try to hold the bit and rock it back fo side to side to see if it sit tight in the QC before carving.

[Amonaug]

hi i have the same problem when i first got the machine. but i found out that most the time when we put the bit in the QC we think it the bit not felt off then it secure in there. but some time bit holder it not complete sit all the way up in the QC the outer ring of the QC is not completely push down, therefore when the machine carving it started to wear out the hole where bit holder sit on make sure when you put the bit on make sure the outer QC ring is completly push down and try to hold the bit and rock it back fo side to side to see if it sit tight in the QC before carving.

Already do that.

One of my problems may be that either 1) I'm not tightening the QC all the way onto the spindle or 2) not using enough locktite and it backs off slightly.

The reason I'm thinking this is I took some old damaged QC's and cut the plastic collar off. I then took one that had a damaged pair of set screw seats and a good pair and put it on the machine that is currently down for repairs. I put a bit with a good adpater in the good pair of seats and there was no movement at all. Loosened the QC just slightly (maybe 1/4 turn) and there was a tiny bit of play in the bit. This would get exaggerated over time and place BB marks and wear on the adapter if I were to run it like that.

Another thing I noticed is there is a guide pin on the collar that rotates the QC as the collar is raised and cocked. In all of the QC's I took apart there was sawdust impacted in this area even though I clean my QC's during use. Due to the plastic collar there is no way to get to this dust as there are no openings that we can get to but dust can. With the exception of maybe acting as a heat guard when we are changing bits I see no other use for the plastic collar. There is a metal collar that the plastic collar is molded to and it has a lip that you can grab and raise the collar. With the plastic collar remove it's much easier to clean out the set screw seats, etc.

I'm thinking of running a test on the machine that is running using the worn QC without the plastic collar.

One good thing I have heard while talking to the service reps is that the engineers are redesinging the QC to be easier to use and hopefully hardier.

[liquidguitars]

Good info...


One of my problems may be that either 1) I'm not tightening the QC all the way onto the spindle or 2) not using enough locktite and it backs off slightly.

Kevin,

The spindel threads have to be VERRY CLEAN! and 100% of the old locktight needs to be removed as the spindel treads are very fine. Unlike a reverse thread, the chuck needs to be tightly screwed on and the glue/lock tight needs to set for 1 hr.

LG

[brady.schwyhart]

I've been having problems with my QC lately too. This is a new QC that I changed a couple of months ago and have probably got around 20 hours of carving on it. I just doesn't like to let go of the carving or cutting bits. I figured out what I had done wrong. The origninal QC never needed lube (or so I thought). It worked smoothly. When I installed the new one, I started just running it like the old one, occasionally blowing the packed dust out and thats about it. IT NEEDS LUBE! After calling CW and talking to a tech (wish I could remember his name cause this feller knew his stuff), determined that I needed to lube it. So I soaked it overnight with 3 & 1 oil (with newspaper and plastic underneath to catch the drippage and this morning it worked pretty good. Got a little cranky with me on the carve I just finished (didn't want to let the cutting bit go) so I hit it with some more 3 & 1, worked the QC a few times and the bit popped right out. I've got it soaking again and am amazed at all the nasty lookin gunk that has dripped out of it. Rust, dust and junk like that. Moral of the story,,,,,,,QC DEFINATELY needs lube! Glad I learned my lesson before it started making expensive sounding noises.
Brady

[liquidguitars]

To remove a sticky bit you can use a 7/8 flat wrench on the spindel and twist the QC outside ring this will free it.

like my hand routers I also tap the side of the shank of the bit to lossen the sticky adapter.

LG

[Amonaug]

Installed the old QC with the damaged pair of set screw slots. This one doesn't have the plastic collar and I must say so far after maybe 45 minutes of carving

1) No impacted dust, Since there isn't a collar it just flies out from the places it normally packs in.

2) So far the bit is still tight in the QC.

3) The metal collar doesn't seem to be any hotter than where you put your thumb when lifting the collar.

I'll report my findings after the 3.5 hr carve is done.

[HelpBot3000]

[QUOTE=brady.schwyhart;68002] After calling CW and talking to a tech (wish I could remember his name cause this feller knew his stuff)

Gee, I hope it was me :D When I speak with someone about a QC issue, especially a wobble problem, the very first thing I need to isolate is where it is coming from. Is the bit loose in the adapter? Is the adapter loose in the QC? Is the QC loose on the spindle? Now once the problem is located and isolated then we can try to remedy but one thing is constant no matter WHERE the problem lies. If you have excessive play (over 1/16 in) then you adapters are going to get BB marks and wear down and "beat up" the inside of that QC. However, that doesn't mean that the QC is bad and needs to be changed. Sometimes it just needs adjustment or tightening. Just like Kevin said earlier, those bits were only designed to get about 40 to 50 hours before replacement. A worn down bit will also get the BB marks just from usage and if they are continued to be used they will bang on the inside of the QC until you have the aforementioned QC problem.

Side note: I've had a great time reading the posts on this forum and I'm glad I am finally getting to interact with you all :D

[supershingler]

i have been using a produce call "tri-lube" by outers for lubing my qc and also the ztrack and y track(i think that what their called) and also lube the screw shaft with it. it is a cleaner lube with teflon and comes in a spray can. it found it with the gun cleaning in the sporting goods section of our local hardware store. i live in a small town 70 miles from anywhere so i tried this stuff and have had zero problems with any thing. i just spray it on and wipe it off.

just thought id pass it on

kendall

[Amonaug]

[QUOTE=brady.schwyhart;68002] After calling CW and talking to a tech (wish I could remember his name cause this feller knew his stuff)

Gee, I hope it was me :D When I speak with someone about a QC issue, especially a wobble problem, the very first thing I need to isolate is where it is coming from. Is the bit loose in the adapter? Is the adapter loose in the QC? Is the QC loose on the spindle? Now once the problem is located and isolated then we can try to remedy but one thing is constant no matter WHERE the problem lies. If you have excessive play (over 1/16 in) then you adapters are going to get BB marks and wear down and "beat up" the inside of that QC. However, that doesn't mean that the QC is bad and needs to be changed. Sometimes it just needs adjustment or tightening. Just like Kevin said earlier, those bits were only designed to get about 40 to 50 hours before replacement. A worn down bit will also get the BB marks just from usage and if they are continued to be used they will bang on the inside of the QC until you have the aforementioned QC problem.

Side note: I've had a great time reading the posts on this forum and I'm glad I am finally getting to interact with you all :D

As a matter of fact it was :D

Maybe you can make a suggestion to the engineers to remove the plastic collar and just give the metal collar that is already there a little wider flange at the top to grip. So far after about 50% of a 3.5 hour carve there is almost no dust where the set screws sit. And what dust there is is easily gotten to. To me unless I'm missing something the plastic collar just give dust someplace to hide.

Lining up the bit, etc is no problem since
1) you can easily see the top of the collar is flush with the QC
2) the guide pin that rotates the QC when the collar is raised is in the upper most position
3) you can easily see the set screws are in place.

[OzarkBrothers]

New machine with only 3 hrs of carve time. The qc is locked in place. Will not move up or down. Lubed with no change. What can I do? Any help would be great! Techs did not know what to do next.

[Amonaug]

New machine with only 3 hrs of carve time. The qc is locked in place. Will not move up or down. Lubed with no change. What can I do? Any help would be great! Techs did not know what to do next.

Have you tried tapping the collar to try and knock the dust out? How about blowing air into it?

[Amonaug]

Looks like I'm not going to be getting the rest of my carving done before the weekend. The bit adapters keep getting BB marks and loosen up. I've tried 3 QC's I have around that seemed in fairly good condition. One is the one I bought a couple weeks ago and is currently back in the machine.

Even making sure it's well lubed, clean and the bit sits tight in the holder after only a little bit of carving there is a slight play in the tip of the bit (back and forth not up and down).

Unfortunately I have neither the time nor the money to get new parts for this machine. The machine under warranty is getting a new z-motor and z-truck which I hope fixes the problems it has but won't get here in time for the show this weekend :(

EDIT UPDATE: Not having a good week. Got it to start a carve and it was looking real good. Bit was staying tight then BAM it started carving a bit shallower which messed up 3 of 9 ornaments off the bat. Decided to let it carve the last 3 which were a tad shallow but still usable. These were 2-sided carves which for some reason I have been having a hell of a time lining up both sides even though I've done many 2 sided carves before with no problem. Went to flip the board and notice something rattling behind the Z-truck. This is an old type Z-truck and still had the circuit board behind it which decided to come loose and apparently momentarily jammed the Z-truck just long enough to mess up it's count and carve shallow. Next went to change the bit, reason it was nice and tight in the QC.....because it's JAMMED in there. Can't get it out and fed up for today. Guess I'll just wait for the parts and fix the one that is under warranty and worry about this one some other time. frustrated as hell and ready to throw in the towel.

[stephanilynn]

I've been having the same problems with bb marks in the adapters too and the bits keep coming loose. I've had my machine for about a month now and have maybe 15 hours on it and ive already had to change 4 bits. They go in with alittle trouble lining the marks up but eventually go in and within maybe 5 minutes they are wobbling around and the maching gets louder like its overworking. Ive cleaned and oiled the qc like everyone says to and nothings working. Am I doing something wrong?

-Stephani

[Audie]

I've been having the same problems with bb marks in the adapters too and the bits keep coming loose. I've had my machine for about a month now and have maybe 15 hours on it and ive already had to change 4 bits. They go in with alittle trouble lining the marks up but eventually go in and within maybe 5 minutes they are wobbling around and the maching gets louder like its overworking. Ive cleaned and oiled the qc like everyone says to and nothings working. Am I doing something wrong?


Stephani,

I too have gone through way too many bit adaptors and QCs. I do a triple check now to ensure that the QC sleeve is down completely. When in doubt I use the wrench for the QC to hold it in place while I manually turn the sleeve of the QC so that it can pop down which firmly seats the BBs in the groove of the bit adaptor. Since doing that I no longer have BB marks on my adaptors and the fuzzies are greatly reduced! Oh yes, I clean, oil and snap the QC frequently to ensure no sawdust build up. If your adaptors have pronounced BB marks I would replace them as they will cause further problems. Now I keep 3 or 4 extra adaptors on hand, just in case.

Good luck!
Audie

[stephanilynn]

Audie,

What wrench goes with the qc? I got a wrench with optional bit adapter tool i bought but it doesnt seem to fit anything. Is a wrench supposed to come with the machine?

-Stephani

[Amonaug]

Audie,

What wrench goes with the qc? I got a wrench with optional bit adapter tool i bought but it doesnt seem to fit anything. Is a wrench supposed to come with the machine?

-Stephani

You can get the wrench either from LHR or rjustice. rjustice is a forum member, just do a search for him and his email is in his signature.

[Kenm810]

This is what the QCC tools - wrenches from Ron (rjustice) look like.

you can send an email request to CW_Parts@yahoo.com (CW_Parts@yahoo.com)

[Jeff_Birt]

Spindle bearing going out is probably a result of flex-cable lube leaking into the spindle housing. The top bearing goes bad, I've done that myself. The good news is it is a common bearing (6000ZZ I think), and it's not hard to replace if you have ever done any pressing in/out of bearings.