First Concrete Casting

[twinpeaksenterprises, LLC]

This is my first concrete casting. Special thanks to www.go3d.us and CastingMan as well as others that shared information on making this type of project. I carved the 1" blue foam with the Inverted Angel pattern. It is 10" X16" and took about 2:20 to carve on best quality. A long carve but i should be able to use the foam casting mold again and again. I glued the foam casting to a board for support and lined the mold with vaseline as suggested by Go3d. It came out great i was really suprised. I used portland cement with a sand mix and after pouring the mold set the whole thing on the table saw and turned it on to let it vibrate and relesae the air bubbles. First time ever mixing concrete, carving foam, and making a mold. Worked out great. Thanks again to everyone that shared techniques on making this project it opens yet another door to Carving. Just remember this is in no way a concrete carving. It is just a mold. Just my own personal opinion and experiment.

OOPs i for got the pictures..!!!

[twinpeaksenterprises, LLC]

Heres the pictures...

[hamburgrd]

That turned out great! I can't wait to show my wife your project pictures.
I am looking at geting laid off soon so now I know what I will be doing with my extra time.

[Amonaug]

Those came out great!

I will definitely have to look into opening a product line in concrete/acrylic molds.

[Baumer]

They do look really nice and smooth. Looks great.
Next time try putting cement colorent in the concrete, and you might be able to just spray the mold with cooking spray,might be easier and faster then smearing. Thats what I did (sprayed with cooking spray) some years ago when I made some special shaped pavers for the back yard. My forms where made out of wood.

Baumer

[castingman]

Twins,

Looks GREAT!!!! You just opened another door.

Michael;)

[mtylerfl]

Heres the pictures...


That's a great idea - love 'em!

[fwharris]

Thanks for sharing. The came out great.

I have told my mason buddy about this function of the CW and thought it was a great idea. Just waiting for him to line something up for the both of us.

[Cbrown]

That is great looking. All this talk of concrete molds got me wanting to try some. Did 2 carves today in the foam, and mixed the crete up. Is when I realized had the big gravel stuff. Oops, still waiting to see how they turn out. Hope they are half as nice looking as yours. Chad

[www.go3d.us]

Look great! May I correct the website address is www.go3d.us not .com.
Thanks for sharing.
HT

[peter_l]

Quick question, do you have to image or "mirror" the image that is being carved, so that the mold comes out correct?

Will be trying a few this weekend, was jsut curious.

Also, is there any issue with the rollers smashing the foam?

Thanks

Pete

[Cbrown]

On lettering, I did mirror the welcome sign I did. Just took it out of the mold a few minutes ago, and worked ok. The rollers put a small indention in the foam when first cranked down, but worked ok. 1 problem I had was when it was finding the board, went into the foam and got a board error, so put the blue painters tape that alot of people put on the bottom of boards on top, and it found it then.

Chad

[peter_l]

Thanks Chad.

Could you post some pictures of your welcome sign, and perhaps the file too?

Take care.

Pete

[Cbrown]

Here is the file for the welcome sign. Still tweaking it. Think the lettering might have come out too deep. Still need to take a pic of it.

[Ropdoc]

I carved the 1" blue foam

Where can I find this foam? I went to Home Depot looking for the pink stuff and no luck. I really want to try this.

Thanks,
Dave

[peter_l]

Hi Dave,

Good luck. I have been looking for it too and both Home Depot and Lowes with no luck. I also checked with some local hardware stores and nobody sells it.

I am not sure if it has to do with location, that everyone in So-Cal uses rolled foam?

if you find a local source, please let me know.

Pete

[hotpop]

Perhaps you guys are looking in the wrong department. The foam your looking for is in the foundation insulation department. 4' x 8' sheets. At HD is is pink. At Lowe's is is blue.

[andes]

Hotpop,

My HD and Lowes didn't have it either. I live in AZ.

[twinpeaksenterprises, LLC]

Maybe the Lowes and Home Depot in you alls area is like other stores. Such as i might be able to buy snow shoes in the Alaska wal mart but not the one in texas. I noticed the two guys that said they couldnt find foam were from Arizona and California. Theres probably not a high demand for this type of insulation in those stores so it might not be lucrative for them to carry it. Just call around to home builders or other stores that may carry it. Its out there somewhere.

[Kenm810]

This is the 1 1/2" Ridged pink owens Corning foam I use.
Foam for patterns (http://www.carvewright.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8070)

Use your Zip code to find a Supplier in your area.

http://www.owenscorning.com/around/insulation/insulationhome.asp

[CustomWestCoast]

Is there a restriction on the depth you can carve on the foam? I know that certain woods chip out if carved too deep. Is there in issue of chipping or tearing the foam if you carve too deep also?

[Kenm810]

I' have successfuly carved graphics and text in the 1 1/2" pink ridged insulation foam over .780 deep
that's a little more than half way through the foam without it chipping out or crumbling.
I've had plenty of practice carving 15lb. and 18lb. project in SignFoam on my machine earlier this year,
And learned to use plenty of spacing when carving text and to use the draft option quit effectively.
With the softer pink or blue foam a little practice plus a bit of trial and error,
you can become very proficient and comfortable at adding maximum depth to your foam carvings.

[twinpeaksenterprises, LLC]

Im not sure on the depth.. But i used one inch foam and carved almost to the full depth of the foam creating almost a one inch block to pour the concrete into. This i have found in my case to be a nice strong secure block of concrete to support the design. I think its a good idea to put the pattern into a carve region for support. So i just make blocks. I also like to add feather to taper the blocks. I hope to do some circulars this weekend. I think some of the eagle patterns would work well. I have also primered and painted the "Angel" pattern with "hammered paint" with great results. Im not sure if your not finding the foam but i got mine as left over from when the house was built "blue 1"foam" which was used as an outer insulation. it cuts great on the table saw. Maybe if you find someone building a home using this stuff you could take their scraps or ask them where they got theirs. As far as i know they sell it at all the Home depot and Lowes around the southern ohio area. good luck and hope to see some concrete molds... Im loving them .. and once again thanks to all that have shared ideas and information pertaining to this idea as it has worked well. thanks. Matt

[twinpeaksenterprises, LLC]

Custom West Coast, No i have had no problems with chipping or anything to that effect. It cuts like butter as someone else had said. Although be aware when carving texts. I think the same principles apply as far as size and things of that nature, as well as with patterns. I useually use a toothbrush for clean up with the foam. Also i have used both the petroleum jelly and pam cooking spray as a release and have found they both work good but found the petroleum works better because it seals up imperfections and provides a smoother finish on the pattern. Its just hrder to clean up off of the concrete. I use dish soap and water to clean off the petroleum jelly off of the dry concrete molding. I sure theres other and better ways. Im just in experimentation mode right now.. good luck Matt.

[Cbrown]

I just encountered a 117 hour carve time on 1 of the molds, heh. Twin peaks, how deep are you taking your carve regions? Is a 10.25 circle, with a carve region of .5. then the 2 parrots to a depth of .5. Actually thought my computer was locking up. Gotta refigure how to do it without the huge time.

[Kenm810]

Here’s a 12.75” x 12.75” x 1.5” Pink Foam Carving that will fit into the bottom of a 18’x 18”cement casting mold that will be used as a Wall Hanging Tile for an exterior garden wall. It was a 4.5 hour carving using Designer Version 1.126. It was carved on my CC Machine and DD Cabinet, once the project was started the lid of the machine remained closed until the carving was finished, no additional vacuuming or compressed air except what was supplied by the DD Cabinet it’s self. The first photo is at 48%, you can see some of the foam chips sticking to the carving head and track also some on the front shelf under the plastic lid, but very little on the project surface on in the carving its self. The second photo is at the end of the carving process with the lid open again very little accumulation on the project in side or out side the machine. The third photo is the project and Sled, a Heat Gun will be use to carefully do the clean up needed on the Pink Foam Carving. I’ll post more photos when the project has been cast and other elements added to it.

[castingman]

Ken,

I just happened to think , Did you peel the thin plastic sheet off ?
When i did some to use in the foundry it got raped on the cutting bit .

Michael:confused:

[Kenm810]

No plastic wrap on mine,
I'm sure I would have peeled it, if it had been there. http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif
Thanks

[Eagle Hollow]

Ken,

it got raped on the cutting bit .

Michael:confused:

Isn't that illegal?

[jspringertx]

I tried the 1-1/2" foam from Lowes and had a terrible mess. I cut out the impression and filled it with concrete. Everything was fine until I tried to remove the mold from the cement. I now have 1,000,000 pieces of styrofoam and wasted several hours carving it. I have decided that it would be easier to make a wood carving....not as fragile and accomplishes the same thing.

The foam I have left will make good insulation for my garage door.

[Kenm810]

jspringertx,

OhOh Key word ((styrofoam))
The pink and blue ridged foam I carve is closed celled Insulation foam,
By Owens corning or Dow.
Also what kind of release agent did you use.

[castingman]

Eagle,

Sorry about that :confused:


Michael

[wlp]

Hey, that's pretty cool. I never thought about using the machine for casting molds. I'll have to give this a try.

Are you able to use the foam mold more than once?

Thanks,
Bill

[Kenm810]

Bill,

Yep, I used a smaller one 3 times and still haven't damaged it,
if you carve them to have a little flex and use a release agent,
plus give the cement enough time to cure properly.
You should be fine.

[jspringertx]

jspringertx,

OhOh Key word ((styrofoam))
The pink and blue ridged foam I carve is closed celled Insulation foam,
By Owens corning or Dow.
Also what kind of release agent did you use.

I used Pam. I think the isulation was not the same as the pink insulation.

[castingman]

Has anyone tryed to use wood ? Make your carveing and build a frame around it with say 15 deg angle ? I do this every day with sand that gets hard as cement .

Michael

[Kenm810]

Yep, the carving I posted Above will be framed in wood to extend the carving mold from 12 3/4" x 12 3/4" in the step to 18" x 18"
and in the second step to 24" x 24" and total of 2.8" thick, about 35 to 40Lb. of cement when it's done.
I'll post some photos when it's complete.

Michael,
In the mean time here's several old castings I've been working on and restoring for the last couple of weeks. http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

Ps. You can see my machine carving away in the background

[castingman]

Ken,

Looks like old bronze , Mid to far east , Your are doing a nice job on them .

Also , nice shop :) I'm looking forward to seeing your mold boxes.
I think i am a little confused :confused: my patterns are a wooden repleca
of the part i want to cast , The mold is a reverse impression [ wich in this case is the cement ] . can't wait to see .

Thanks Michael

[Kenm810]

Michael,

I normally do two part Rosin or cold cast aluminum and bronze,
where my mold is the negative of my finished piece.
In this case pink foam and wood steps will be the mold and the finished piece will be cement.
In your castings you vaporize or burn out the foam and disassemble the wood frame.
I disassemble the wood and get to use the foam mold again.
Just a different way to get close to the same results. --- most times! http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

Ps. Just wanted to say, I've been following your posts and admiring your projects and work http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[castingman]

Ken,

Thanks , I am flattered ,

I just took a pic of a pattern and mold of a part for a 9 cyl raidal eng.
The pattern is just like the part + 3/16 per foot for shrink , The mold is the reverse , Now for a guy that may be teaching a foundry class this fall i need to rap my head around this. If you cast in cement with letters they should be backwards just like my sand mold .

Thanks Michael

I admire your projects as well , You guys inspire me a lot !!

[SevenCubed]

Fantastic stuff! I wish I had access to a studio like yours. Getting into molding and casting is hard to do when your only "workshop" is a garage. =D

I tried casting plaster in a mold made outta wood, but it was a HORRIBLE failure. Sealing the wood was just too difficult. But concrete in foam... THAT seems to have potential! I'm totally inspired now. =D

Here's hoping I'll have something to show, soon. I'll be sure to thank you for the inspiration!

-343

[jspringertx]

I am convinced that it is the area you live in that determines the thickness of the insulaton material. I checked Lowe's and HD and all they stock is the 3/4" board. 1" and above is not something they carry. I guess it doen't get cold enough in Houston to justify handling the thicker board. I see it on the web, but I can't find it locally.

I tried the board they do stock, but it was not dense enough and broke up when I tried to remove the casting. The item I casted turned out just fine, but the mold broke into 1,000+ pieces.

[twinpeaksenterprises, LLC]

Jspringertx, I lived in Houston also for 20 years. I remember all the new houses going up around the kingwood area. They all had the blue foam on them and if i remember correctly it was like 3/4 or something thin. Then moving to Ohio they use the 1" and 2" stuff here. So if i was needing 3/4 i couldnt find it.
On another note with your foam mold did you line it with a release agent? Or also mount it on some type of board for strength. Such as the foam is weak so you cant pick it up or handle it when it has the weight of the concrete in it.. So mounting on a board may help to keep it from breaking up.

[jspringertx]

The foam I used was not dense like the blue insulation. I built a frame and sprayed the logo with Pam. The insulation fell apart and it was obvious that it wouldn't work.

I made a point of looking at Lowe's today and sure enough the good stuff was 3/4" and not 1". When they built my house 40+ years ago they didn't know what sheet insulation was

Oh well I have enough to do without making castings.

Thanks for the input.....I know now that I hadn't gone crazy.

[supershingler]

if you cant get the thick stuff you could alway get some adhesive and glue a couple of sheets up and try that. if that workss your lumberyard would probably order you in some special.

just make sure you get adhesive that is compatible with foam or else it will melt the foam

if not for a couple of thousand i could haul you some down from south dakota

lol


good luck

kendall

[brdad]

I know I can get 4" blueboard fairly easily here in Maine, have seen it used anyway, and have been pondering where I saw much thicker. And it just came to me. It is used for dock flotation. If you Google for "Buoyancy Foam" you should find just what I mean, it comes in 7 in. thick x 20 x 48 in. billets. If you have a marine supply store nearby, they may have it.

[Kenm810]

I started this project several months ago, and finally got a chance to work on it a bit more this week. The Maze was carved 7/8” deep with a small amount of Draft; the frame is ¾” plywood that has been sealed with 2 coats of Sanding Sealer, than topped with a spray on liquid wax release agent. I built a shaker table to remove as many air bubbles as possible while helping the cement fill the patterns voids in the foam mold more completely. The 35 lb. of Quikrete was allowed to dry and harden for 4 Days. In my hast to see the results, I cracked the foam mold in 3 places – but thankfully the casting came out great. The 16” x 16” pattern has three 1” levels, the 14” round Maze being the very top. We made a 400 Lb 20” hallow cube base for the Maze to sit on in the garden. After I seal the Maze and Base, I'll add a few finishing touches, like a little color and trim, and it will be complete.

[mtylerfl]

Great job, Ken! Can't wait to see it all finished!

[DocWheeler]

That is really nice Ken - and thanks for sharing the construction pictures.

[Eagle Hollow]

Hey Ken,

That's a two thumbs up! I sure like the texture of the sides of the maze.
50 years from now, someone will be enjoying the aquired patina (maybe a few brown and green lichens growing on it) and wondering who created it. Scratch your name on the bottom of next one! Thanks for sharing your first class project.

Jerry

[Tom75]

that is great thank you for sharing

[Kenm810]

Thanks guys,

And Jerry I all ready have my witches brew of buttermilk and stale beer set aside to start the moss and lichens growing on it.
The rough texture of the surface forms small moisture traps that will have it growing great guns by late spring.
The area in the shade garden where it will go never gets direct sun light.
The spot is filled with ferns, ground cover and English Ivy, there are several types of moss that have been growing there for years.
With the Red Oak and Hard Maple trees, it looks and feels like a forest floor deep in the woods.
It's become a great place to just sit and relax.

[oldjoe]

Wow Ken that sounds incredible I can't wait to see the finished pics sounds like something my wife may need for her garden.

[TIMCOSBY]

hope you meant to catch rain water in it. outstanding work. one question why not use wood for the form you could then re-use it over and over. as usual i'm prolly missing something real simple.

[Kenm810]

Actually there are two small drain holes near the center of the maze to allow water to escape through the bottom of the maze.
There are a few reasons for using foam rather than wood for the mold, the first is the texture of the foam with all the voids and holes that
transferred to the cement that are needed to trap and hold moisture for the moss and lichens, plus a rough surface they can hold on to.
Also the foam is a little more flexible than wood when it comes to freeing the cement from the mold.
The dry cement and the wood both are rigid, and even with a good coating of release agent it’s nearly impossible to separate them
with damaging the finished maze walls because of the heavy texturing of the mold and Maze.
If you look close at the photos you’ll see hundreds of small slashes and holes made by the carving bit and air bubbles in the walls and floor of the maze.

[SevenCubed]

Yeah, I had tried to carve a mold for a piece out of wood, and when I tried to cast plaster into it, I TOTALLY couldn't get the plaster out. I had sanded the crap out of the wood and had been careful to smooth everything out and finish it and add mold release, but it was an awful failure. Foam's nice, because carving a new mold sucks, but losing the mold AND the casting is worse. <=)

Additionally. as mentioned before, the texture is an issue, although woodgrain DOES look nice on Concrete. =)

-343

[RayTrek]

This has been a great thread to follow and I have picked up some foam to give it try Thanks for all the tips and ideas
Just as a thought with wood forms I have seen diesel used as a releasing agent
Ken your shaker table is a neat idea and I may result to doing the same thing but on my first try I am going to make a dry pack mix with 1 part sand 1 part cement and pack it into the foam believing that it will give a rough and prose texture for holding moisture
Also as a note cement needs a 27and a 1/3 day cure keeping it wet or green will allow it to cure and get harder for 99 years to fast of a cure will make it brittle.
Even with working on and off with tile setting and cement structures for 30 years I find the information here as a learning experience and can not wait to give it a try
Will let you now how it turns out
The projects here are out standing and thank you for sharing them
Ray

[rjustice]

I had a thought about the problems of getting cement out of wood molds.... I have also heard about using diesel feul as a release agent, but I think that this is used for things like foundation, sidewalk, wall forms and the like. The key in all of those applications is that you can simply pull the forms away from the cement.

In the applications of making a mold for cement, I would think that the problem mainly lies in the shrinking of the cement when it cures. Being in the plastic injection moldmaking business, we have to deal with shrink by adding draft (tapered sidewalls) to the steel that forms plastic.. this is key to the release... Now if you could eliminate shrink, it would definately help a lot. I know that you can buy "NON SHRINKING" Grout (which is what we use to set our big CNC machine anchors to their foundations)... Perhaps the use of a material like this along with a release agent, along with draft would yeild a mold with intricate detail, that would be able to be used over and over without damage...

Does anyone know about any other "NON SHRINK" masonary products?

Just sharing my thoughts!!!....

Ron

[Eagle Hollow]

I had a thought about the problems of getting cement out of wood molds.... I have also heard about using diesel feul as a release agent, but I think that this is used for things like foundation, sidewalk, wall forms and the like. The key in all of those applications is that you can simply pull the forms away from the cement.

In the applications of making a mold for cement, I would think that the problem mainly lies in the shrinking of the cement when it cures. Being in the plastic injection moldmaking business, we have to deal with shrink by adding draft (tapered sidewalls) to the steel that forms plastic.. this is key to the release... Now if you could eliminate shrink, it would definately help a lot. I know that you can buy "NON SHRINKING" Grout (which is what we use to set our big CNC machine anchors to their foundations)... Perhaps the use of a material like this along with a release agent, along with draft would yeild a mold with intricate detail, that would be able to be used over and over without damage...

Does anyone know about any other "NON SHRINK" masonary products?

Just sharing my thoughts!!!....

Ron

Ron,
Most of the "non-shrink" grouts are actually expanding in nature. They lock in the anchors. Concrete needs to be kept damp in order to assure enough water is available for complete hydration. If lacking, the concrete will shrink and weaken.

Jerry

[TerryT]

Rather than making the mold directly with the carvewright, would it be easier to make a "positive" of the project and then use the rubber mold making stuff? I have never made a mold either way but I have a friend that used the rubber mold making material a lot.

[Kenm810]

Hi Terry,

Most of the small projects or delicate pieces I have to cast, I do use rubber molding materials.
But the cost becomes prohibitive on large molds.
About $3.00 or $4.00 for Pink Foam verses $25.00 to $50.00 or more for 2 part rubber product
for one the size of the casting I posted above. For me $$$ that's about it. http://forum.carvewright.com/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

[Kenm810]

Here’s taking a Maze project a few steps in a different direction. http://forum.carvewright.com/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif

[Audie]

Incredible Ken! You amaze me with your vision and execution of top-notch projects!!!
Audie

[Amonaug]

Interesting art combining natural wood with man made stone :)

[Eagle Hollow]

Here’s taking a Maze project a few steps in a different direction. http://forum.carvewright.com/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif

Ken,
Nice! That IS Art! You're becoming contagious...Keep it up!

Thanks again for sharing.

Jerry

[mtylerfl]

Here’s taking a Maze project a few steps in a different direction. http://forum.carvewright.com/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif

That's some good stuff, man! You can just about start your very own Museum of Contemporary Art now!