Version 1.130 CAUTION Will Start FIRES!!!

[Fireman Phil]

Well...I uploaded the latest version of Designer and went to make a sign that had a 1/2" deep cutout on the back side (a 2"x3" area using the 1/2" straight bit) and...caught my machine on FIRE!! The new version made the 1st pass 3/8" deep, way to much at one time with that size bit. The dust got so hot that is started a fire. Luckily I was still in the shop when it started. I just happened to turn around and see the flames. I opened the lid and blew the flames out then grabbed the air hose and blew all the dust out of it. It charred my project a little but it looks like the machine is okay. Bit was not dull and had no pitch on it. I have done this procedure many, many times before with no problems.

Another problem I am having is when it starts a project, it starts the bit turning and just sits there until it reaches 20% done on the display then it starts carving. When it finally starts to carve it makes 1 pass then sits approx. 1/2 second then makes another pass. It is taking forever to get my sign complete.

[sewpeck]

Really scary, anyone else have this problem?

[twinpeaksenterprises, LLC]

Im really not sure what your problem may be.. Are you maybe jumping to a conclusion that it was the 1.130 version? Was it the dust that caught on fire or the actual wood for the project? Also are you using a downdraft system or any type of dust collection? Just a couple thoughts from my personal opinion.
First i have ever heard of a machine fire. Good thing you were close by. I always make it a point to monitor my machine when its carving.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Pictures would have been GOOD.... After the fact.....

Hey, Fireman Phil, Did you see my new Epoxie Domed Reflective Fire Accountability Tags?....

AL

[swhitney]

A few days ago, I was carving a half-inch rabbet in some cedar using a half inch straight bit, and got some burning with a bit of smoke produced.... kinda wondered if it might replace the old boy scout method for starting a fire.....

Seriously, this is a concern. Many great things came with the 1.130 release, but in the case of the cutouts, and large rabbets, I would prefer the previously mentioned idea of a "drop down option box" to give us the choice (one pass, or multiple).

and if that could be done, maybe a priority cut listing. Sometimes I would prefer a certain cut to occur before other cuts, and a way to "force" this would be nice.

but enough ramblings.. what do you think??

[Woodman]

This keeps happening to me since I went with 1.130. Nothing ON FIRE mind you which I'm thinking is a good thing, huh? *G* Downdraft system keeps the sawdust to a minimum don'tya know. I am a little concerned about the possibility of having a really hot speck of wood go into the dust collector and having a problem there. Not sure what the odds are of that happening tho. The 1.130 does make the bits dive way deep into the wood on a cutout compared to 1.126 tho. Makes me nervous! See attached jpg for details. Pete

[Amonaug]

Yes I'm getting a lot of wood burning with cutouts in the intrcate areas where the bit has to slow down to go around small curves. Larger curves or straight lines it goes fast enough to prevent the burning. This takes a lot of cleanup afterwards which isn't good.

I think I plan on having 2 cards, 1 with the 1.13 carving then load just the cutpath on a 1.126 card. The 1.13 carving on best is great, nice and smooth and requires very little sanding....cutpaths on the other hand, although accurate burn the wood.

[twinpeaksenterprises, LLC]

Wow i think i will wait on the upgrade then. Im using 1.126. Got to remember it is summertime. And things are alot hotter. such as my machine get hotter faster..of course. I get burns sometime but in the centerline. Maybe they tried to speed up carving times in 1.130 with ill results. Who knows. Oh and hey good point about the downdraft system. Ya i wouldnt want a hot piece to drop off in the collector. wow! Ill keep a close eye on my machine..

[MikeMcCoy]

I am a little concerned about the possibility of having a really hot speck of wood go into the dust collector and having a problem there. Not sure what the odds are of that happening tho.

The odds are slim that you can get a fire started in a DC bag but they aren't nil. It happened to me a couple of years ago doing a lot of dado work on the router table.

[RanUtah]

what Carvewright is doing about it?:confused:

[Digitalwoodshop]

Waiting for the first pictures of a smoldering shop foundation.....

Sad to say....

As for me... I placed a few smoke detectors in the wood shop.

AL

[Fireman Phil]

A few days ago, I was carving a half-inch rabbet in some cedar using a half inch straight bit, and got some burning with a bit of smoke produced.... kinda wondered if it might replace the old boy scout method for starting a fire.....

Seriously, this is a concern. Many great things came with the 1.130 release, but in the case of the cutouts, and large rabbets, I would prefer the previously mentioned idea of a "drop down option box" to give us the choice (one pass, or multiple).

and if that could be done, maybe a priority cut listing. Sometimes I would prefer a certain cut to occur before other cuts, and a way to "force" this would be nice.

but enough ramblings.. what do you think??


I couldn't agree more. There are many times I could use a priority list for carving. It could be done simply be using the carving list on the side. The top one carve first and down the list. You could just drag-and-drop the items in the order you need.

When I downloaded the update I also purchased the centerline text. The letters keep burning. I didn't know if this was normal or if was the new update also. I purchased a new 90 deg. v-bit (burnt the last one on some cedar) and it didn't help any. Which leads me to another question. Are the bits that LHR sell solid carbide or just carbide tipped like the ones at Sears? My local Sears carries a 6-bit set from LHR for $169, but I don't remember if it had v-bits or not.

[Fireman Phil]

Waiting for the first pictures of a smoldering shop foundation.....

Sad to say....

As for me... I placed a few smoke detectors in the wood shop.

AL

Smart choice. A good ABC fire extinguisher is a good idea also, as long as you know how to use it properly.

[Fireman Phil]

Pictures would have been GOOD.... After the fact.....

Hey, Fireman Phil, Did you see my new Epoxie Domed Reflective Fire Accountability Tags?....

AL

Sure did, they look nice. We are working on a system that each tag has a bar-code on it. Each commander will have a scanner and all they do for accountability is scan our tag. The tags will contain our own information and level of training. Each scan will show up on our CAD system to show your point of entry and time in/out.

[Fireman Phil]

Im really not sure what your problem may be.. Are you maybe jumping to a conclusion that it was the 1.130 version?

I have done this same project several times with no problems. When it made it's initial plunge, it went too deep trying to cut more material than it could. Overall it did seem to be quite a bit faster than the last version (except for the carving). It seems it would be better if it would cut 1/8" out at a time at a faster rate than all at once at a slower rate.

BTW...I just got off of the phone with Omar at LHR. He said they are doing some more testing on this feature and someone would be getting back with me. He said he has not had any fires reported yet. Hopefully mine was just a fluke.

-Phil

[Amonaug]

Fluke or not, there shouldn't even be a chance for it to happen.

[newcarver]

This may not be the case for all machines
Tested a project between the 2 designer versions, 1.120 and 1.130. Conclusion- 1.120 ran fine, a simple cutout line on 3/4 in wood. Did as it always has, takes small passes with no issues. 1.130 did NOT run fine, plunged deep into the wood with the same project, same board, biting off way more than it could chew. Smoke was produced and I was forced to shut it down. I do think if i had not been their a fire would have been the result. My opinion is- do not use 1.130, contact LHR and request a link for a previous version. This is an obvious serious issue and needs to be addressed before someone has a major fire, or worse. I am going to shoot lhr an email about my test. I think it would be in their best intrest to fix this ASAP.

[ChrisAlb]

I like most everything about 1.130 except that one pass cut out. I too just finished a carve to curls of smoke from 3/4" pine. The very first time I ever saw that. Bit came out black and it's NOT wiping off this time with a brass brush.

Keep the software the way it is..

GIVE "US" THE CHOICE OF A ONE PASS CUT OR A MULTI PASS CUT!!

After 30 years in wood, I think I can determine for myself what material I'm cutting, how thick it is, how hard it is and how "quickly" it should be cut.

It's SO simple...Give us a choice of 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 passes to cut it out. Then if someone smokes a bit, or worse the shop, they can look in the mirror for the cause.

I hate to say it, but I'm going back to 1.126

LHR - Don't be like Microsoft ....GIVE US MORE CONTROL!

[TerryT]

After breaking two cutting bits in a row and spending nearly $100 to replace them, I have successfully carved 5 projects without breaking another bit. Problem now is, with every cutpath the bit is more and more difficult to get out of the chuck. I'm starting to see just the faintest indication of the BB marks on the brand new bit holder. The carving bit still works fine and installs and comes out easily. Still seems to be too much stress on the cutting bit.

Chris have you got a link to 1.126 that you will share?

[liquidguitars]

Chris with respect,

If you have carved anything of complexity with 1.13 you would not say this I am sure, but that what 1.126 is for.


hate to say it, but I'm going back to 1.126

LHR - Don't be like Microsoft ....GIVE US MORE CONTROL!




Hmm, one pass works like a charm for me on 2 units in my design shop. But I keep the cutter sharp and clean. I recommend saw cleaner/pitch and glue remover spray sold at saw shops.


I did replace my flex shaft cores! "any one working with the old flex shaft system know this is a replacement part" and bingo it works!! so lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater due to the 1/2 bit.



LG

[newcarver]

I was not ripping on lhr at all. I do have every designer saved so I can revert back if needed. Many programs go through this and its always handy to have the prior version in case of things like this.
I do like chris's idea of the choice of how many passes.

[MikeMcCoy]

Personally I don't think anyone is ripping LHR and most of the folks posting so far are LHR's most staunch supporters. This could be a big deal but shouldn't be and I would think it wouldn't be that hard to find a happy medium. I have upgraded software on one machine but haven't ran a carve on it yet since I'm waiting on everyone else to find the bugs. :) I work with software upgrades on military simulators and realize that stuff happens and there is no way to test every possible combination of choices.

[sweliver]

I like most everything about 1.130 except that one pass cut out. I too just finished a carve to curls of smoke from 3/4" pine. The very first time I ever saw that. Bit came out black and it's NOT wiping off this time with a brass brush.

Keep the software the way it is..

GIVE "US" THE CHOICE OF A ONE PASS CUT OR A MULTI PASS CUT!!

After 30 years in wood, I think I can determine for myself what material I'm cutting, how thick it is, how hard it is and how "quickly" it should be cut.

It's SO simple...Give us a choice of 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 passes to cut it out. Then if someone smokes a bit, or worse the shop, they can look in the mirror for the cause.

I hate to say it, but I'm going back to 1.126

LHR - Don't be like Microsoft ....GIVE US MORE CONTROL!

Chris,

I agree.

Did some centerline tonite and ended with burn marks. I'd rather clean up fuzzies than burns. The 90 deg v bit went deep. Bolder look but burnt and the basement smelled of it.

Glad I didn't wipe out .126 on my other computer.


sw

[want2b]

Worked with major software vendors such as Lucent & Nortel fo many years. As a user with the most unique needs was given a 'test/beta' copy a version to along with 9 others to try it out. Intent was to make a release that had the least problems. Any slight problem, I had a programmer online immediately to correct. 6 months later the 'greatest was released. I personally checked the number of 'patches/corrections' issued and the release was a bomb from that perspective. As in I'm sure with 1.3 there were enough new features/changes that couldn't be 100% tested until the field turned it loose. Any user of 1.3 who has a problem needs to refer it to lHR with specifics as to the MPC and time from start to problem so they can evaluate and correct, maybe with a 1.3?. There have been enough posts to indicate 1.3 does have a weakness.
I feel bad for anybody who has lost bits or burnt up a piece of wood, guess the option would be to not upgrade for the new features. Best of luck to all.

[hetzerguitars]

>I think I plan on having 2 cards, 1 with the 1.13 carving
Can you still download 1.13 anywhere?

- Jim

[ChrisAlb]

LG, with the very same respect.

About every one of my carves is intricate and employs combinations of just about every function the CW can do. I still say this.

It's unfortunate but there is simply NO reason to be "Locked" into a One pass cut. Keep it by all means. It's nice to have (for some applications) but give US the choice.

I have my original 1/8" cut bit with over 300 hours and it's still razor sharp. Never once burned. I've done 3 cut outs with the new software. The first two seemed OK. Clean, accurate and no burning. But I noticed a color change in the bit. The third cut out produced smoke the whole way and the bit is very dark.

I'll say it again...THIS...isn't going to wipe off. The metal has been heated to the point of color change.

Yep, going back a step. All I'm saying is....Give ME the choice of how many passes and I'll go right back to 1.130.

I'm glad it's working well for you LG. But keep an eye on things.




Chris with respect,

If you have carved anything of complexity with 1.13 you would not say this I am sure, but that what 1.126 is for.






Hmm, one pass works like a charm for me on 2 units in my design shop. But I keep the cutter sharp and clean. I recommend saw cleaner/pitch and glue remover spray sold at saw shops.


I did replace my flex shaft cores! "any one working with the old flex shaft system know this is a replacement part" and bingo it works!! so lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater due to the 1/2 bit.



LG

[The "DH"]

Hello Everyone,
I enjoyed 1.30 until I noticed the same thing on doing cut throughs. 1/8 bit is burnt and it does not come off!!!! and I have had some smoke as well!!! Other wise I have over 100 hours carving with 1.30 and no problems.

LHR please fix this soon and give us the option for muti pass or single pass (I would recommend just removing the single pass all togeather), I'll wait the extra five minutes to save my bits and not burn the wood!!

Thanks

[Amonaug]

>I think I plan on having 2 cards, 1 with the 1.13 carving
Can you still download 1.13 anywhere?

- Jim

I assume you meant 1.126

I still have 1.126 on my laptop, 1.13 is on my PC. Not sure LHR has a download for earlier versions. I hope they see the problems we are having and

1) Give us a download to 1.126 or earlier until they fix it
2) Quickly fix it and update

[liquidguitars]

The burning is from glue and pitch not your cutter.
if you have a ton of burning it's time to clean the bit and check out replacing the flex shaft.

http://www.liquidguitars.com/saltdot/cleaner.jpg

http://www.liquidguitars.com/saltdot/bit.jpg

if one pass is removed its a new type of CNC for me. I just could not go back to indexing parts like in 1.126

this part was cut yesterday its 13/16 maple using full depth one pass :)

http://www.liquidguitars.com/saltdot/PART.jpg

[DocWheeler]

Brandon,

Nice piece of wood - did you find someone giving them away (I'd like some)?
That should have been a good test of the full-depth cut-out.

Kinda crowding the width a bit aren't you?;)

[liquidguitars]

over 8' x 13/16" deep of cutpath. :)

Thanks Doc, I just picked up the maple at my local hardwood store about 60' BF the sizes was 14" to 16" wide and very light.


Kinda crowding the width a bit aren't you?

Even hit a screw or two some days from my indexing .. :)

LG

[ChrisAlb]

That IS a nice piece LG. I'm glad it's working well for you. That's some really nice work.


As for my bits, clean a whistle as always. Perhaps the pine I was cutting had more sap than normal although the 3 cuts I made all came from the same board. 2 very nice, third ..... smoking Joe. Bit checked and cleaned between as always.

The bit had to be sharp because before 1.130, only the tip was used and always cut great. The center of the bit that is now used, never cut wood before...lol

Hmmm. I don't know but having a nice, clean, sharp bit come back black after 3 cuts? This is one I'm not willing to beta test...lol

But I sure am glad it's making cuts like that for you. Again, Nice work!

[jcorder]

I spoke with support on the one pass issue. They suggested I reload 1.126 on the machine, then rename the firmware file. then put the 1.130 back on and just click on the firmware control and turn off the 1.130 by renaming that file. then switch back to the renamed 1.126 file, give it back the original name and it will use the 1.126 each time for the graduated cuts, and you will have all of the other features of the 1.130 software. The only problem I am still having is I am unable to make my project cut to size, each time it tells me the board is too thick to cut and I am only using 3/4 inch stock. I don't see that as much of an issue though, I just take it out, cut it to size then put it back into the machine and let it route the edge.

[ChrisAlb]

That sounds like a handful...lol

My CW has always turned out very nice, accurate and smooth carvings before the update. While I do really like all the improvements except the cut path, I'll be content until it's addressed.

My question would be, after you do that to all the files you want or need to, what happens on the next upgrade? Would you then have to go back and change them again?

Sort of seems like putting a band aid on the cut, without sewing up the jugular first.

[jcorder]

LOL you are right, it is a mouthful, but I was afraid I would break bits doing the plunge cut it was doing. I can't do the cuts with the 1.126 either tho since it always tells me the board is too thick. not sure what will happen with the next upgrade, guess we will find out sooner or later.

[ChrisAlb]

I've gotten that "board too thick to cut" on occasion. I said...BS...it is and hit Enter. It cut it perfect every time. I haven't had the time to look into why it says that but in every case, it still measured the thickness and evidently, remembered it and cut OK.

For the most part I always have my board settings in Designer set for 3/4" thick. Now in the past, this setting had no effect at all to the CW. It's really just for your visual aid on screen.

I'm beginning to wonder if they've done anything to change that? Like if you set it at 1", would the CW now know this and say WO...I can't cut through that!

In any case, hitting Enter has always let it proceed as normal for me.

[jcorder]

The only choice I get is 1. abort or 2. don't cut, it never lets me ignore it

[ChrisAlb]

The only choice I get is 1. abort or 2. don't cut, it never lets me ignore it

Yea, try ignoring that and hit enter. Keep an eye on things just in case it doesn't seem right. You can hit stop or lift the cover if it doesn't. Always worked for me though.

[jcorder]

Ok, I will give it a shot! Thanks for the help

[bdeiter]

Thank you all for the information available. I have been using my CW for making Hotel door plaques I made 37 of 226 of these signs but since I foolishly did the update I find that the routing bit is now cutting into the sled. Fortunatly I have not cut a board and after reading this I will wait.

[fwharris]

I spoke with support on the one pass issue. They suggested I reload 1.126 on the machine, then rename the firmware file. then put the 1.130 back on and just click on the firmware control and turn off the 1.130 by renaming that file. then switch back to the renamed 1.126 file, give it back the original name and it will use the 1.126 each time for the graduated cuts, and you will have all of the other features of the 1.130 software. The only problem I am still having is I am unable to make my project cut to size, each time it tells me the board is too thick to cut and I am only using 3/4 inch stock. I don't see that as much of an issue though, I just take it out, cut it to size then put it back into the machine and let it route the edge.

When I called LHR about this, the tech had me check Z axis readings through the "check sensor" and after I read the numbers off to him he said I needed the Z bundle upgrade. Said it was incorrectly measuring the board thickness.

I had the to thick msg on 2 carves and told it to proceed on both. One came out ok the other I did notice that it did not cut all of the way thru the board in a few places.

Not saying that is your problem, just sharing my experience with the "board to thick for cutout" msg.

[liquidguitars]

For the most part I always have my board settings in Designer set for 3/4" thick. Now in the past, this setting had no effect at all to the CW

Designer aways liked the project set to the right size.


Sort of seems like putting a band aid on the cut, without sewing up the jugular first.

your point? flash your card with 1.126 the rest of us will be 8 months ahead of the curve and you will not be.

to show that 1.126 has added gunk long long time ago :)

http://www.liquidguitars.com/saltdot/bitgunkR001.jpg




so we are on the same page, Chris is requesting the removal of a important tool on a public forum to LHR?
what's up with this THINKING!

as a side note today I used 1.130 with the
1/8 bit 1/2 bit 1/4 ball, 32/scribe and the carving with no fire no burning.





LG

[ChrisAlb]

Designer aways liked the project set to the right size.



your point? flash your card with 1.126 the rest of us will be 8 months ahead of the curve and you will not be.

so we are on the same page, Chris is requesting the removal of a important tool on a public forum to LHR?
what's up with this THINKING!

as a side note today I used 1.130 with the
1/8 bit 1/2 bit 1/4 ball, 32/scribe and the carving with no fire no burning.


LG


EXCUSE ME? Same page? I think NOT. What "TOOL" have I requested be removed LG??

I've stated SEVERAL times to ADD to it. NOT take anything away.

Get your facts straight please LG. Obviously you're NOT actually READING my posts??

Evidently you should go back and do some research on Designer. The thickness of the board in Designer has NEVER meant a thing to the "CW". EVERYONE Knows this, and now you do too...http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

My thinking is fine thanks.

[liquidguitars]

Keep the software the way it is..

Chris I think people look up to you on this board...

No need to remove 1.130 just flash your card if you think you will be burning anything, try some more projects and be amazed at the way parts fit.


The thickness of the board in Designer has NEVER meant a thing to the "CW". EVERYONE Knows this, and now you do too...

not true.

LG

[ChrisAlb]

Chris I think people look up to you on this board...
no need to remove 1.130 just flash your card if you think you will be burning anything, try some more projects and be amazed at the way parts fit.

LG

OK, tell me why. If flashing the card (I assume you mean back to 1.126?) is the answer, why have 1.130 installed???

I think you have me all wrong here LG. I am NOT bad mouthing the upgrade. As I stated earlier, I like EVERYTHING about it EXCEPT being LOCKED to the single pass cut out.

All I said is I'd like to see us given MORE choices for more passes. NOT remove the single pass. Obviously it's working well for you and that's GREAT! It's NOT however working so well for some others and I happen to be one of them. I've noticed behavior from my machine that I've NEVER seen before. And it ain't good...lol

What's your issue with my returning to 1.126 anyway? Others have already, others will and that's fine.

Whether folks look up to me or not is both debatable and irrelevant to this topic. If they are having trouble as I am, go back a step. What's the big deal?

And OH...lol...ALL my parts always fit fine in 1.126. never a problem and never any smoke....lol

[Amonaug]

If the picture LG posted is an indication of most of his carving I think the reason HE is not having any trouble or burning with the 1.13 cutpath is his cuts involve big gentle curves and straights.

When I had it cut a tray out that had long gentle curves it didn't burn the wood BUT when it got to the small tight curves and slowed down immensely it burned the wood.

So LG just because YOU aren't having any problems with yor carving doesn't mean it applies to everyone.

As Chris has suggested many times, give up the OPTION of single pass or multi passes. What does that hurt?

[liquidguitars]

As Chris has suggested many times, give up the OPTION of single pass or multi passes. What does that hurt?

This is a good idea.. Requested it to LHR some time ago as 2 offset paths.


So LG just because YOU aren't having any problems with yor carving doesn't mean it applies to everyone.

I clean the snot out of any bit that has pitch build up with spray cleaner and this reduced the issue 92% weeeeee!

LG

[ChrisAlb]

This is a good idea.. Requested it to LHR some time ago as 2 offset paths.

That's great LG. As have I, Al, and I'm sure a host of others by now. As they ALWAYS do, LHR listens and I'm sure will take this slight bug into consideration with the next release.

Not sure what you mean by "offset paths" but to me it's pretty simple. If we're working on 3/4", 2 passes means 3/8" deep per pass, 3 passes means 1/4" deep per pass and so on.

One would think that with the intricate and really nice work you do (and I mean that LG, no BS here), more control over things would be a plus? No?




I clean the snot out of any bit that has pitch build up with spray cleaner and this reduced the issue 92% weeeeee!

LG

92%? Well before the upgrade, for me, it was 100% Never burnt a bit.

That second picture of your bits? That's not "gunk" that's "Burnt" dude. Now I don't have a clue how many hours you have on it, but it's obvious you have TWO 1/4" ball nose bits.

Hmmmm....over 300 hours and I still have only one of every bit in the set that I bought with the machine. Of course now I have to replace my 1/8" cutting bit (so much for 100% after the upgrade) but the rest are clean, shinny and sharp as new. And they'll stay that way with the step back.

Makes me wonder what you smoked that one on?

You mentioned intricate designs in one of your responses to me. You also said that guitar had ?? feet of cut pass. Well, at 6 foot 6 inches long and 10" wide, Done in 5 passes, I won't even TRY to guess how many feet of cut out this is but this was done in the version "Prior to 1.126".

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think it gets "much" more intricate than this. Not a problem, no burning and 5 straight hours of cutting out at the end of a 15 hour carve. Don't let the shaky camera hand fool you....lol....Came out smooth and perfect.

[Jeff_Birt]

I think this thread is good as it gives folks a whole lot of information, unfortunately a most of it is just speculation and not backed up by any real facts at this point. I would like to offer the following points for consideration by all:

Cleanliness:
First off, all router bits should always be kept clean. If the bit has ever touched a piece of wood, it needs cleaned. This most likely will entail cleaning them every (few) carving sessions with a cleaner made for the job and perhaps some very fine scotch-brite. This applies to ANY router bit, whether it is used on your hand router or the CW machine. I have used every firmware version since 1.15 or so and have had pitch build up with every one of them (the same as I do with hand routing). Some woods, like pine can be particularly 'sappy', and gum up any tooling used.

Sharpness:
I'm sure that every woodworker has noticed that a dull table saw blade will seem to work OK on shallow cuts, but will bog down and smoke when trying to cut a 2-3" depth. Router bits are no different. Using a dull bit with shallow passes will seem to work OK, but try to take a pass at the full depth it should handle and you will get smoke. The point is that bits like blades will get dull. They need to be sharpened or replaced. Perhaps older firmware versions allowed us to 'get away' with dull tooling while the newer firmware will not. Given that 1.130 makes less passes and more evenly distributes the wear on the whole bit I would wager that we will see similar or better life out of our tooling while having a better quality of cut with 1.130 and above.

My own experiences:
My first tests with 1.130 style firmware was hampered by a worn QC and adapter on my 1/8" cutting bit. I knew they were shot but had not replaced them yet. I could not get away with using them any longer. After replacing the parts mentioned I have run several hours of cutting with no problems due to the new cutting method (using pine and poplar). I think of it like this: I have a car with bald tires that works OK but really needs a tune up. After doing the tune up it runs much better but I'm constantly squealing the bald tires. So, I can either blame the tune up for causing the squealing tires or realize that the tires were shot to begin with and replace them. (tune up == firmware).

In general:
There are many things that can cause burnt marks / smoke on our projects. The very first thing I would suspect is that the machine is not able to move the stock properly through the machine. I would then check the condition of my sandpaper belts and bits, down pressure, out feed table adjustment, sliding guide plate, and the stock itself (parallel sides). Most often in my experience these items have been the source of the problem.

What I am suggesting is that everyone take a breath and really try to track down the source of the problem if you are having one. If is quite possible that the previous firmware version was helping to mask the problem. If you are not having problems when why suspect that you would? Many months of testing went into this firmware (not to say there can't be problems). It (1.130) has worked great for everything I have tried to date.

Just food for thought...

[ChrisAlb]

It's not very often (if ever) I disagree with you Jeff But...hehe...this time I'll have to.

You raise good points and as always, folks should always be sure that the machine is functioning properly in all those areas. I clean my bits with pitch remover and a brass wire brush after "almost" every carve. that's why, until this upgrade, they are like new in both appearance and performance.

In my particular case however, the ONLY change was the firmware. As you already know very well how annal I am about my CW, bits and all, I can assure you that everything you mentioned is in check at my end.

With that said, as far as I can see, I have tracked it down. Went back to 1.126 last night. Just finished a large carve and cut out and all went smooth as silk again.

I don't know, us or the firmware? I know where I'm placing my bet though.

By the way buddy, I don't recall ever seeing any pictures of your carves???...C'mon...now...give em up to us!...lol

[Digitalwoodshop]

Pass me a BEER this is getting GOOD....

Snicker,

AL

[Jeff_Birt]

Chris, I can post pictures of perfect carvings and cut outs with no problems if you want. It won't be very informative as there is no problem to see. :)

I still have seen no evidence, i.e. pictures of problems with MPC files, of any real problems with 1.130. I'm not saying that I don't think 1.130 is problem free (the 1/2" bit has issues I think), I am saying that if you are having problems PLEASE post pictures and the MPC you had problems with. (If your MPC has commercial patterns please don't post it.)

If we can provide CW with some real facts and feedback I'm sure they will look into it. Otherwise, we are all wasting our time debating it.

[roughcut]

I haven't even came close to mastering all the good stuff 1.126 has to offer. There is a lot of good information and tips on the form for us new guys :DSo I say I am better off staying with it. I'll let the more senior carvers work out any bugs with 1.130 / Then I'll switch...:)

[ChrisAlb]

Sounds fair enough Jeff.

I have a meeting with Al and our client soon so I'll post my burnt wood & burnt 1/8" bit pictures when I get back.

You have a good point so I would encourage others to do so as well.

I'd Still like to see some of your work though, burnt or not...lol

[liquidguitars]

Guitar neck work on the carvewright using 1.130. Maple.

http://www.liquidguitars.com/saltdot/neckonepassR003.jpg


go 42!

LG

[ChrisAlb]

I'd like to see that done in pine. Hardwood always cuts better than soft wood with high speed bits.

Beautiful work!....http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[hotpop]

How do I get a previous release of Designer. 1.130 is to aggressive. On the cut through option 1.130 now plunges the 1/8" cutting bit through my 3/4" oak boards before it starts cutting out my projects. Bang! Bang! Two broken cutting bits within 10 minutes. Older version take several cuts.

I had $60 profit built into the price of this project now I'm $20 in the hole. I can't afford to spend $80 to replace broken bits per project.

[CraigR]

I agree, you need to uninstall the program then reinstall it from the CD and when you go to upload the project don't forget to use the old firmware also. I had to do this also.

[hotpop]

Ok! I uninstalled 1.130 reinstalled original disk and have 1.113 installed. Can someone e-mail the 1.126 patch?

thanks,

yankeepop@nc.rr.com

[jcorder]

When I called LHR about this, the tech had me check Z axis readings through the "check sensor" and after I read the numbers off to him he said I needed the Z bundle upgrade. Said it was incorrectly measuring the board thickness.

I had the to thick msg on 2 carves and told it to proceed on both. One came out ok the other I did notice that it did not cut all of the way thru the board in a few places.

Not saying that is your problem, just sharing my experience with the "board to thick for cutout" msg.
I assume the Z bundle upgrade is a hardware issue?

[roughcut]

I am in the same boat as Hot Pop I need to upgrade:(:smile: :confused:from 1.125 to !.126
Has any one got a copy of the up grade.. I am not ready for 1.130
Thank you:smile:

[Zonetoys]

I am in the same boat as Hot Pop I need to upgrade:(:smile: :confused:from 1.125 to !.126
Has any one got a copy of the up grade.. I am not ready for 1.130
Thank you:smile:

Give this a try!
http://www.carvewright.com/downloads/designer_patch_1_126.exe

[SandBuoy]

LiquidGuitar, how deep are those cuts. They don't look to be anywhere near what they guys are compalining about. We're talking about full .750-.775 cut paths. That 1/4" ball slot doesn't look to be that deep and it the longest I see.

I am not trying to start anything here but lets compare apples to apples with what most of these guys are complaining about. Take your 1/16" bit, plunge it into a peice of pine, ash or oak with a 10" diameter x .750 deep. I just did two in the last couple of days with a brand new 1/8" bit in soft mahogany. It didn't smoke but it sure put a strain on the machine.

I think its wrong that we don't have more control over the amount of cuts and material we feel confortable with taking. Personally I think I have enough knowledge with cutting and milling machines to know whats sensible and whats pushing it to the limits. If I had the option I would be taking at least two passes just to help make my machine and bits last longer.

I cut a lot of 1/2" corain. I can imagine whats going to happen when I take a .525 cut path in one pass. These bits aren't cheap and I sure can't see abusing them or the carving machine.

[liquidguitars]

regarding flash cards and firmware.

You can keep 1.13 installed and flash your card to any version of the firmware that work best for you."I would think this would be the industry standard not removing the current software" I rolled back only a few times but it works. this way you also get the new " inset paths" lets you move the placement of 1/8 bit numerically. :o

the outside and inside paths are .79" deep cut with the 1/8 cut bit.


http://www.liquidguitars.com/saltdot/PART.jpg

shows using the new inset/offst paths in 1.13 to move the bit to the outside or inside of any shape "I use a sled so indexing tabs is a no go" the top carve and the bottom mesh.

way better than 1.126 i was tired of looking at the bit go around..



I think its wrong that we don't have more control over the amount of cuts and material we feel confortable with taking. Personally I think I have enough knowledge with cutting and milling machines to know whats sensible and whats pushing it to the limits. If I had the option I would be taking at least two passes just to help make my machine and bits last longer.

I agree.. just so ya know :)

LG

[roughcut]

Thanks alot Zonetoys The link worked great :D

[Fireman Phil]

Wow, I've been away for a couple of days and hadn't read any posts. I was just venting my fustration when I started this thread. Didn't mean to start a 'heated'...lol...debate. I called LHR the next day and expalined everything that happened to them. They then asked me if I had posted anything on the forum. I said yes and he asked me my username. He then said he had read my post and was concerned. I hope LHR is on top of things and will have a fix/update or something very soon. There is a serious problem with the current version. LG, nice work by the way, the project I was carving when the fire started I had done at least 10 times before (with different names on it) with no problems what so ever. I updated the version then all of the sudden, plunge...smoke...fire! I have a 4' long Fire Axe plaque for a retired Firefighter that I have to get done soon. I am afraid to even start it as I am carving it in a piece of 1x12x6 walnut. I agree with Chris, please give us a choice of depth of pass, number of passes, anything.

[TerryT]

Wow, I've been away for a couple of days and hadn't read any posts. I was just venting my fustration when I started this thread. Didn't mean to start a 'heated'...lol...debate. I called LHR the next day and expalined everything that happened to them. They then asked me if I had posted anything on the forum. I said yes and he asked me my username. He then said he had read my post and was concerned. I hope LHR is on top of things and will have a fix/update or something very soon. There is a serious problem with the current version. LG, nice work by the way, the project I was carving when the fire started I had done at least 10 times before (with different names on it) with no problems what so ever. I updated the version then all of the sudden, plunge...smoke...fire! I have a 4' long Fire Axe plaque for a retired Firefighter that I have to get done soon. I am afraid to even start it as I am carving it in a piece of 1x12x6 walnut. I agree with Chris, please give us a choice of depth of pass, number of passes, anything.


That would be embarasing! Couldn't give a plaque to a fireman because it caught fire? LOL. Sorry just seemed kinda funny.

A few years ago I pulled over on the road to let a fire truck go by with lights and siren, he pulled over a block later because smoke was rolling out from under the engine. He forgot to take the e brake off and it caught fire. Fortunately no one hurt but it was kinda funny.

[liquidguitars]

yes I have seen my Tele body smoak just finding the cause and yes at muiti pass selection..

To anyone reading this thread.

Question? can you start a fire with any power tool?

Answer yes. So I would have for say that same for the carvewight, shop bot or the K2.

Have I had smoke?

Yes big time with the 1/2 bit it needed cleaning
redwood top pine body glue yellow.

Do you have smoke now in your work?

no but the days young :)

I clean my bits, I also do not have a custom dust chamber on the CW at this time not sure if that is a issue or not.

How do I stop the smoke and snapping bit?

Clean the snot out of your cutters. use tabs to hold your work. replace the flex shaft and belts.
if you think you need "mini pass" just err, roll back to 1.126 firmware not software

Do I have to remove the 1.130 software to use the old versions of the firmware software?

No just flash your card any time to any CW_firmware you can get your hands on even with old projects on the card. unless LHR tells you to remove 1.13to all

all the best!

LG

[Amonaug]

Oh, just posting if they change the cut paths I hope they keep the way it drills holes (in 1 pass).

[Fireman Phil]

That would be embarasing! Couldn't give a plaque to a fireman because it caught fire? LOL. Sorry just seemed kinda funny.

Now that's funny.

[busta]

Geez I've had several jobs where someone haswantedthat chard look. I suppose I might benefit from the upgrade.

Seriously, I'm glad I stumbled upon this tidbit. Guess I'll hold off for a bit before I add it.

Just went through four days of trouble after "upgrade" from corelDraw decided it didn't want to work with me. ugh! Lost a bit of cash over that.

[carvewright]

We felt that several important issues have been raised in this thread. Please read http://www.carvewright.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8090

[Steven Alford]

Correct me if I have this wrong. But it is the firmware on the download card that tells the CW to do a cut path in one pass? Not the Designer software (1.13) on your computer? So this is why you would have 1.13 on your computer to take advantage of all the new options and the old firmware would keep it from doing a cut path in one pass. My question would then be, do you loose any other options by staying with the old firmware??

Steve

[SevenCubed]

I just did my first carving in AGES, now that my machine's back up and running, and I've got the 1.130 firmware. I'm astonished I DIDN'T get a fire. My cutting bit is completely black, and I've got scorches all around the pieces.

Nothing ignited, for which I'm thankful, but Man. I hope I didn't screw up my bit.

Come on, LHR. Did no-one in your QA department scorch a bit doing this new one-pass cut path malarkey? And I was only carving Poplar! I probably wouldn't have a workshop left if I had been using something more sturdy.

I'm kinda disappointed in you fellas... This is Dangerous.

*rant over, reverting to 1.126 as soon as I find out how (the above-linked patch failed on my machine)*

[Jeff_Birt]

I've used 1.130 with lots of poplar, no problem! LG has been cutting tons of maple too! I would suspect that your bit is dull AND/OR your cut motor is running wide open. Chris Alb had the issue with the cut motor 'going turbo' as he said and solved the problem with a new motor. It sould also be due to a bad RPM sensor...

[SevenCubed]

Well, it's encouraging that you cats aren't having this problem... I shouldn't give in to the mass hysteria so quickly, it would seem. =)

I can check the RPMs, but I JUST installed my new cut motor, so I'm disinclined to assume that would be the problem. I guess I'm assuming I installed it correctly. <=)

On the poplar you fellas have cut... Have you done half-inch cut paths? It's a LOTTA wood this puppy was chewing on. My cutting bit's no spring chicken, but I've never seen her cause smoke before. It just seems counterproductive to try to cut all the way through in one pass. Surely the multi-pass method is safer, if prone to "stair-stepping" or whatever...

Anyway, thanks for the assurance and the advice. I'll keep an eye on the numbers and I'll watch her closely next time I do a cutting.

[zman]

Just wanted to add some info to the already well populated post. I installed the 1.13 shortly after it came out. I right out of the gate noticed that my CC was running real slow and showing lots of burn marks. It was like the truck was in slow motion. I called LHR that day and was told to uninstall 1.13 and go back to 1.12. Reflashed my card and everything is back to running the way it should. Being in the computer IT business I should have known not to jump on the band wagon of a new upgrade till the bugs are worked out. From what I see LHR probably needs to relook at the upgrade before something bad happens to the operator or CC. When people call them with problems it would be nice to have some kind of a info page/link from LHR as to things there techs find in troubleshooting problems. Maybe would help in holding down the phone support calls too.

Zman

[liquidguitars]

From what I see LHR probably needs to relook at the upgrade before something bad happens to the operator or CC.

A lot of people are using 1.130 without any major probs
I for one. I think your statement is out dated and needs a upgrade.

Even the name of this thread is BS...

LG

[Digitalwoodshop]

I was doing a cut path in pine and along the long with the grain path I got allot of smoke. I stopped and blew the sawdust out of the slit and started back up again. Used the air hose from above to blow air into the cut keeping it clean and no more smoke.... The bit also self cleaned too starting black when I started it back up and was a dull brown when done.

I am thinking I need an air assist like the Laser Engravers have....

AL

[zman]

I stand corrected by the senior

[Don Butler]

All this is a little scary since I just upgraded to the 1.13 version. On the other hand the above posts all came in July, so I'm wondering what happened?

Has LHR addressed the problem? I'm a bit reluctant to carve another job until I know.


Don

[Jeff_Birt]

Don, only a handful of folks have had any problems with the new firmware. I know at least one of these cases (as I suspect most others) the problem was the cut motor on that particular machine running at too high a speed NOT the firmware.