Carving MDF with hot-melt veneer?

[audiomath]

Hi folks,

I do a fair number of one-off designs using 3/4" MDF and finished with veneer. (hot melt application)

My question is: Has anyone tried carving MDF (or other material for that matter) with veneer already applied? My fear is that the glue layer might foul the carving bit since it's a bit rubbery. I s'pose I could try it and find out, (I have a machine) but would prefer not to break or overheat the bit or machine if someone else has already played guinea pig. :-)

I've tried the above with a "regular" router table without much success due to the router bit chipping the veneer edge instead of leaving a clean cut. I was hoping the Carvewright might fare better since the cut surface is much different than a router bit.

I'm willing to try different veneer application methods as well; hot melt is just convenient.

Thanks,
--jim

[ChrisAlb]

Hi Jim and Welcome to the forum.

MDF carves well but lots of dust and any thin, fine details are tough due to it falling (flaking) apart. I use MDF for test carving a lot.

I've never used a "hot melt" veneer (sounds interesting though), but I have a lot of success using a spray adhesive for laminating a veneer to both wood and particle board.

I use 3M spray adhesive which is basically just contact cement in a spray can. The advantage to using the spray version is, much better control and MUCH thinner coats. It also allows for both a permanent bond or a temporary one that can be separated again.

For a permanent bond, spray a light coat on both surfaces, let dry and then put them together. Make sure the pieces are aligned exactly the way you want them because as soon as they touch, it's a bond.

For temporary bonds just spray one side, let it get "tacky" and put them together. For these, I allow them to sit for about 15 minutes before carving.

How thick is the glue in a hot melt? Form the most part, the CW cuts very well through thin glue. If anything does stick to the bits, a brass wire brush cleans them up nicely. In any case, the solid carbide bits are tough and hard to both dull, or heat to a temp that would damage them.

[wooden nickel]

I have laminated birdseye to walnut.It works quite well.I used Titebond II,it worked good if you plan on your bottom color comming out.

Wooden Nickel

[bjbethke]

I get lots of sink cutouts from a local cabinet shop; they have a laminate on one side. They carve well, with center line type, you can carve the type styles down to 1/8th inch and that looks great.

[audiomath]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

The hot-melt veneer is available in Red Oak at the Lowe's here. You apply it with a hot clothes iron from the center out, then finish by rolling it out with a roller. I use a marble rolling pin and quite a bit of force, but the heavy roller might be overkill. It takes stain and both urethane and laquer finishes well and is thick enough to stand finish sanding.

Christopher: I'm going to guesstimate that the final glue layer is approx. 1/32" thick. Adhesion is good, with the exception that I've had it lift at the edges if I "pull" them too much trimming or sanding, or get impatient and don't let the glue cool/cure an hour or two first.

I'll give it a try and see what happens. I'll report back here one way or the other, in case anyone's interested in the results.

I've also noticed that Constantine's is selling "peel-n-stick" veneers now. I can't imagine a pressure adhesive that would be up to the job, but I'm going to order a small quantity and try it to see. I'll also try a 1/16" veneer with 3M spray adhesive while I'm at it. Getting the veneer edges clean (especially at a 90 corner where two edges are exposed) is a pain - perhaps some combination of the above will work out.

--jim

[audiomath]

Christopher,

I didn't note that you can make your own hot-melt adhesive by diluting yellow glue 50% with water, then painting the veneer with two coats, allowing it to dry between coats.

I know that "cheap" (non-PVA) yellow glues like the original Tightbond and Elmer's Carpenter's brand both work. I don't know about water resistant (PVA) types like TightBond II. They may or may not be soluable in water.

--jim

[Gunner]

Good morning all,
I found a great site for tips on veneering. This guy uses some of the same tools that I use. He just explains the equipment better than I can.

http://joewoodworker.com/veneering/veneering-tips.htm

[audiomath]

Thanks, Gunner.

I suppose I'm fated to buy a vaccum press at some point and do it like the "big shops" do... I've been avoiding it due to lack of shop space, time, etc. [fill in other excuses here]

That site looks to be an excellent resource.

--jim

[Digitalwoodshop]

Normster used a hand pump version that I liked. He said it was a spin off of a Wine Bottle Vacuum pump to reseal the bottle.... I have the 15 inch heat shrink tube roll to put my signs and stuff in. I bet that thin bag would work if you could get a manifold to install in the top of the bag.... Heat Seal the ends.... 14.7 PSI pushing you veneer down would work.

If you could buy manifolds to heat seal to the bag...... NEW PRODUCT.....

AL