Static Electricity,Dust and Vac System

[Frank]

I been reading some of the posts on vac systems hooked to the machine. Andes said he read somewhere that this was causing some problems. I have been using my vac system on my machine for a while. I hook it up with a shop vac hose and the plastic mount fitting that came with the machine. I just removed the bag and the support and the dust attachment fitting went right on the hose and I plug it into the machine. I have just had a problem with the board sansor. I was wondering if the error could have been caused by my vac system. The vac hose I use isn't grounded but the system I plug it into is. If this has nothing to do with the board sensor what types of problems can be caused by static electricity?

Thanks Frank

[andes]

LOL, Andes is not a he. My nickname is Ande and the s is for the first char in my last name. But in ref to the shop vac and static elec, I don't think it has anything to do with using the shop vac as tje dust attachment. I believe most of what I read pertained to you using the shop vac to clean the machine. I too use my shop vac for dust collection during the carving process. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.


Andes

[Digitalwoodshop]

Shop Vac and the Carve Machine.... In the words of the Lost in Space Robot of the 60's.... "Danger young Will Robinson"

Hooking the shop vac to the bag area or muffler is a counter productive measure. That air is primely from the under side area of the Carve Machine in the Power Supply area.

It is pumped through the Cut Motor to provide cooling. The cut motor has 2 sides to the cooling fan.

ChrisAlb used his shop vac hooked to the muffler area but did not turn it on... Just used it for a much quieter carve machine and filter.

A much more effective cleaning of the sawdust is to connect it to the bottom slot. I just mounted a 4 inch metal elbow to the cart and put a weather seal around the slot and draw a suction through the bottom. I also have a upper collector I made from copper. Posted pictures a few times.

Using a Shop Vac hose to vacuum your machine could cause Static that could and will kill your unit. Depending on the hose, some make more static than others. The wood chips passing through the hose generate the static. Hit a big pile of sawdust will generate a very big spike in static.

Use Options and check sensors to read the Board Detector number. Using white copy paper should give you a 140 to 156. Less could be a problem.

Good Luck,

AL

[andes]

Al,

I fully understand what you are saying, however, if you can't use a shop vac to clean up the machine after carviing -- wha do you use to clean out the sawdust after use?

Andes

[Steven Alford]

An air compressor and air hose with a nozzle on the end with about 25 pounds of pressure blows the dust out of the machine quite easily. Easy to do while the machine is running also. Just don't blow any where near wires.

Steve

[Kenm810]

Andes,

I also use compressed air to clean my machine when a project is finished and turned off, Being careful not to blow the the chips and dust into the motors, card slot, or electronics area.
The same is true when I vacuum my machine after the carving is done and at the end of the day, again with the machine turned off,
I stay well away from any sensors, wires, or circuit boards. It all boils down to common scenes, when using compressed air or any kind of vacuum around your CW or CC Machine. Any method of cleaning can damage your machine if your not careful.

[bizbiki]

After I built my downdraft table for the cc (hooking it up to a dust collection system)the cleaning of the inside of the machine following a carve is minimal, most of the time.

I occasionally during a long carve will open up the cover interupting the carve and using a shop vac clean up around tlhe inside near the carve piece, I stay away from the key pad side.

Both the dust collector and shop vac have three prong plugs so I know that they are grounded, I have been under the assumption that there is no static charge using a grounded applicance. Is this wrong?

thanks

Louie

[Kenm810]

The movement of dust and chips through the vacuums hose is what generates most of the static charge potential.
I have a three Prong plug on one of my Shop Vacs, but I can still see the dust and chips standing up and dancing along the hose while it's being used. http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif

[bizbiki]

Ken,

So should I not use the downdraft table? The dust is sucked out through the bottom of the CW

Thanks

Louie

[Kenm810]

Louie,

By all means, please use the downdraft table.
It's in my opinion the best way to control the dust and chips.
What I was referring to was an unground shop vac that is used to clean up inside your machine
should be used with care and kept away for the sensors a and circuit boards.
And that three prong plugs are not a total guarantee against static.
There are several success stories of folks using
shop vac or dust collection systems with their machines

[DocWheeler]

Louie,

A "down-draft" system that pulls air out the botom of the machine will probably not cause trouble, it is mainly the hose or tubing where the debris rubbing the tubing as it is pulled out to the collector that causes the problem.

I purchased a small shop vacuum to clean out the dust that the down-draft does not get. The little vacuum creates all kinds of static, I have to put a grounded wire into the nozzle to make it safe to use. At least I feel safer!

You would have to ask him, but I doubt that Kem M. gets static charges from his setup even though he pulls air out the bottom and back of his machine. But, I imagine he has grounded the one out the back for safety.

I'm getting too slow, Ken beat me to it again!

[Kenm810]

Hey Ken,

Your right on with using the grounding wire
just to be on the safe side.

Doc you forgot my Side Out Let Vent to the DD Cabinet makes three http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

[fwharris]

Ken and Doc are right on the money with this. LHR built the CW with the DD slot in the bottom for this very purpose. I believe it was Jeff who also stated that when cleaning out the inside during a carve with a shop vac that it is very important to ground yourself to the CW. With your free hand on a metal part of the machine. Also stay away from the key board side of the machine. The physically touching of the CW should also be followed when while cleaning after a carve with the CW turned off.

The main point is the grounding of your DC system and the CW. I clip both out feed tables as well as the back (opposite from keybd side) cover of the machine.

I test my system by taking a little bit of saw dust and sprinkle it on the hose. If it jumps to it like a magnet I know there is a problem.

Ken is also right about the different hose types.

It is a good day to carve in Colorado as it has been raining since 3PM Wed. Higher humidity reduces the potential.

[www.go3d.us]

Over the time small, tiny dust particle will get into the board sensor, doesn't matter if a vacuum system was used or not.
What I did is sealed the board sensor box with super glue gel. Not thing can get in now.
HT

[jackssib1]

I just blow out all, with low air.
w/dust collector running.
Jack

[Frank]

To Andes I'm greatful you are not upset about me not knowing. Thank you all for the response. I had read somewhere earlier about hooking the vac system to the dust collector on the machine, I missed the part about not turning on the system. I will change my practices. I will also check for dust on the inside of the sensor cover. Didn't even cross my mind.

Thanks Frank

[Dan-Woodman]

Al
Don't ya just hate buying all those new tools, next you'll probably want a bigger dust collector.
later Daniel

[andes]

Looks like I'm going to have to break down a put a downdraft together. :-)

[Audie]

Hey Al,

I scanned an old skelton key that would look great on the "You Hold the Key" clock.

Audie

[Kenm810]

Here’s my latest addition to my DD Cabinet, its own mini Vac System that uses the negative pressure generated by the DD blower. The vacuum is adjustable and shows no signs of static charge even at the maximum setting. The combination the brush tip and vacuum do a nice job on the Board Sensor along with a few other hard to reach spots in the machine. The kit was about $9.00 at Harbor Freight, Their also available at several places online.

[Eagle Hollow]

Ken,

That's the kind of convenience that can make a tedious chore pleasurable. Thanks a whole bunch for sharing it with us. Those kind of things reduce the need for warranty work. Maybe LHR could recognize you for this great contribution.

p.s. I might be able to brush my teeth too???

[Kenm810]

My Machine has been out of warranty for over 6 months now, so the little add-on’s I use, like the air sweep and side port, plus the use of extra negative pressure and air flow to remove the chips and dust from inside the machine while its carving, allows me to carve 12” wide projects or use a 14” Sleds with out having to stop the machine in the middle of a project, to vacuum out chips or worry about dust get packed under the pressure rollers. They help me clean and maintain the machine while its carving in hopes it will extend the life and usefulness of my machine. In all, it leaves my free to do any extra clean up at the end of the carving process and to concentrate on the proper lubrication needs when and where necessary. I’m sure there are several other folks out there that could improve on these ideas or have some really great and useful ideas of their own they could Share.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Nice KEY. Thanks !!!!

AL

[fwharris]

Ken,
Great idea! I already have one of the vac kits, you said it is adjustable. Can you give more specifics on that! I take it that the cup is your cap or plug.
Again great job and thanks for sharing.

[Kenm810]

FWHarris,

The MiniVac is adjustable, it has a built in collar that you can rotate to increase or decrease the amount of vacuum power by opening or closing the size of the by pass vents in the hose adapter. And your right about the plastic cup, when I’m not using the MiniVac and the adapter is removed, the tapered cup seals the 1 1/4” hole in the DD cabinet’s deck. When the tapered hose adapter is installed in the deck the same plastic measuring cup makes nice cap to seal the adapter when the hose is not connected.

[fwharris]

Ken,

Thanks for the info on this.
Now I have to start going through my misc stuff boxes to see what I have that might do the same thing.

[Kenm810]

Audie,

Thanks for sharing the Old Key .ptn,

It brought to mind a problem
I have to deal with now and then http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif