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geddins
04-20-2008, 04:48 PM
I'm calling LHR in the morning...thought I'd ask here. I noticed on Saturday while my machine was carving a project (3 hour cut time)that not only was the shaft HOT (I usually check it to touch about every 20 min or so), but the casing had bubbled where the metal "stay" touches it...(pic attached).

According to my infrared thermometer, the area about 1.5" either side of the "bubble" are averaging about 150 degrees....while the rest of the shaft is averaging about 100.

I took the flexshaft out and gave it a white lithium grease-down (done according to LHR's instructions) and decided to try another carve today...same thing. Is there something in the flexshaft housing that I can lube or cool someway, or is this going to be a part that needs to be replaced?

Thanks
Greg

ncamp
04-20-2008, 05:06 PM
do a search for industrial chain lube with moly. that is the new recommened lube for the flex shaft since the lithium does not penetrate. if you download the updated carvewright manual it recommends this type of lube.

DrBob
04-20-2008, 05:47 PM
FWHarris said it best!


I too as a new-be experienced the "over heated flex shaft do to improper lubrication" after about 6 hours of carve time on the machine. I had done several 20 to 30 minute carves with out any indications of the shaft getting hot. (being new I tried to observe every operation the machine did, even touching the flex shaft as it ran) While doing my first long carve (1.5 hr) at about 45 min. carve time I saw the outer cover of the flex shaft start to melt. Stopped everything and made my first call to LHR. After stating my problem, LHR said there was a new lube procedure posted on the forum and they would send out a new flex shaft. Ok great, I learned the new lube procedure and got a replacement flex shaft. Also learned there is more to this machine that what the owners manual tells you and that the forum is the place to go if you really want to know and under stand your machine.

My point in all of this, If LHR new about the problem with the flex shaft lube with lithium not meeting specifications why did they not include with every unit being sold an addendum, attachment or what ever to let the user know they had to something?

It would have been a lot more cost effective for LHR to print up 10,000 pieces of paper for each unit than having to replace the several hundred flex shafts that got melted because the new user did not spend several hours reading the forum prior to using the machine.

When I buy a new car I should not have to check the air pressure on the tires after 6 hours of use.

Bill Fitch
04-20-2008, 06:44 PM
Had The Same Problem And Had To Replace The Shaft And The Cover.

Got The New Parts And The Problem Repeated Itself. This Time I Followed Advice From The Forum.

Cut A 38" Piece Of 1/2" Puc, Glued An End Cap On, Filled It 1/3 Full Of Liquid Wrench With Molly.

Let The Shaft Soak Overnight. Wiped It Clean With Newspaper And Reinstalled. No Problems After About 20 Hrs Now. The Shaft Is Warm To The Touch At The Apex Of The Curve But It Is No Longer Hot.

Right Now I Think I Will Do The Same Thing About Every 20 Hrs Unless I Read Differently.

Hope To Hear How Your Problem Comes Out.

DrBob
04-20-2008, 07:03 PM
Welcome to the forum Bill
You got right the idea, Read Read and more reading.
Glad to have you and look forward to sharing with us, all that you learn and carve. This is the place.

Digitalwoodshop
04-20-2008, 08:22 PM
If you VALUE your new car as a investment then you WILL check the air pressure in the tires at or before 6 hours of operation......

Buying a gallon of milk and taking it home and placing it on the kitchen counter. Leaving it for 3 days at room temperature then taking a drink and spitting it out.... Then write on the Forum because you CAN that the COW was Defective and was a known problem..... How silly we can be.....

Take responsibility for your Carve Machine's maintenance and READ and understand everything you can. If you have a question like "Do I really use that Lithium to lube the shaft?" I thought I read that I should use that stuff with MOLLY....?

Just curious.... Are the Spring insulators inside the rubber shaft? A missing spring could cause the problem too.

AL

Jeff_Birt
04-20-2008, 08:54 PM
Right Now I Think I Will Do The Same Thing About Every 20 Hrs Unless I Read Differently.

Bill, the official word from CW on flexshaft lubrication is here: http://www.carvewright.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1470, it's about the 5th sticky in the announcements section.

If you do not get the excess lubricant off the flex shaft it will run down into the spindle bearings and cut motor magnet/bearings. It can ruin both the bearings and the older style magnet holder in the cut motor. For this reason CW recommends only lubricating the flexshaft when needed. As a big preventative maintenance proponent it bugs me not to proactively lubricate the flex shaft on my own machine. BUT, even begin as careful as I am, I have managed to flush the grease out of my top spindle bearing from over lubrication.

I've now run mine about 60 hours with no noticeable change in flexshaft temperature. Still, I will have to admit that I will probably not let it go more than 80 hours as I don't want any contaminates to accelerate wear.
I am working on an idea to help prevent the excess lubrication issue from causing problems. I hope to be able to test in by months end.

DStimpson
04-21-2008, 06:43 AM
I have learned to monitor the flex-shaft temp. very closely and to raise the cover during a long carve project to let it (and the machine in general) cool down. This also gives me an opportunity to vacuum out the shavings and sawdust from the machine at the same time.

I think the key is to monitor the temp. for changes in normal operation. My flex-shaft runs about 90-95 degrees, depending on the ambient temp. If it starts to run signifcantly hotter, say 115-120, I figure it's time to lube using the LIQUID WRENCH CHAIN LUBE WITH MOLY.

All of this monitoring is made much easier with a non-contact, laser pointed, thermometer.

Now, if I could just get my QC loose so I can install the new one......

Eagle Hollow
04-21-2008, 06:58 AM
I have over 60 hours carve time since lubing the flex shaft with Industrial Chain lube with molybdenum. On one occasion the shaft heated up to 121 degrees at the end of the wire brace that had slippped to the side. After recentering it, the shaft cooled back down to less than 90 degrees. I lubed the shaft by soaking it in a plastic tube filled with the moly lube for 4 hours then shook off excess lube and let it stand dry overnight on newspaper.
NO PROBLEMS!

Jerry
1.126

Kenm810
04-21-2008, 07:51 AM
Eagle Hollow,

I've had the Flex-Shaft slip or jump off the wire loop support a few times, it never really changed the temperature of the Flex- shaft that much, but just to be on the safeside, I keep it centered with a single loose wrap of black vinyl electrical tape near the end of the loop. And as always I monitor all the moving parts of the machine with a hand held laser pointed, thermometer.

Quote: -- Industrial Chain lube with molybdenum -- I lubed the shaft by soaking it in a plastic tube filled with the moly lube for 4 hours then shook off excess lube and let it stand dry overnight on newspaper.
NO PROBLEMS! ---- Perfect!! http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

forqnc
04-22-2008, 07:44 AM
I had about 25 hours on my machine when the flex shaft melted. After I got it back from LHR I lubed with Moly and put around 60 hours on it before I noticed it starting to get warm, lubed again and next carve it was back to normal.
So I'm more of the monitor and lube as needed type now.

Eagle Hollow
04-22-2008, 09:44 AM
Eagle Hollow,



Quote: -- Industrial Chain lube with molybdenum -- I lubed the shaft by soaking it in a plastic tube filled with the moly lube for 4 hours then shook off excess lube and let it stand dry overnight on newspaper.
NO PROBLEMS! ---- Perfect!! http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Well...so much for no problems. My machine threw some kind of fit I've not experienced before. Eight minutes into a 1 hr, 27 min carve, it quit, displaying a "Fatal error 3". I restarted the project and the CC ran through all the set-up proceedures. When it started to carve, it made one or two passes then lifted the bit, raced wildly to the far side then reversed and slammed willdly into the near side then moved to the carve region plunged and buried the bit. Before I cound hit the stop switch, the flex shaft cable broke at the cut motor.

Since three calls to the techs remained unanswered, I called sales and was told they are out of stock and will be available in two to three weeks.

I guess that takes care of my promised delivery of a $4,800.00 china cabinet for an architech friend in Minneapolis.

Bummer!

Jerry
1.126

Kenm810
04-22-2008, 10:42 AM
Sorry to hear it Jerry,


Why does it always happen right after we say it never happens.

Is it written somewhere that I don't know about,
we are to get problems immediately after we say we have no problems.



GOD created all things in Six Days
On the Seventh day, He said
ok Murphy you’re in charge now

geddins
04-23-2008, 09:58 AM
If you VALUE your new car as a investment then you WILL check the air pressure in the tires at or before 6 hours of operation......

Buying a gallon of milk and taking it home and placing it on the kitchen counter. Leaving it for 3 days at room temperature then taking a drink and spitting it out.... Then write on the Forum because you CAN that the COW was Defective and was a known problem..... How silly we can be.....

Take responsibility for your Carve Machine's maintenance and READ and understand everything you can. If you have a question like "Do I really use that Lithium to lube the shaft?" I thought I read that I should use that stuff with MOLLY....?

Just curious.... Are the Spring insulators inside the rubber shaft? A missing spring could cause the problem too.

AL

Al,
To answer your question about the Spring insulators...yes, there's a spring in mine. As to the rest of your post, if it's pointed at me, please send me a PM and we can discuss it offline. I won't go down those roads here.

Thanks
Greg

ChrisAlb
04-23-2008, 10:13 AM
Very sorry to hear that Jerry. Along with what Ken said. I've been boasting about no problems with my chuck? Well...LOL...guess what, for the first time in a year and after 200+ hours, it's sticking and very hard to lift. I know I keep it clean and it "feels" mechanical.

And like you Jerry, just when I'm carving sample house signs for what could be my first, and a great contract with a garden center.....geezzz...lol

It still works but after the carve I'm currently doing, I guess I'll have to take it off to find out what's up. That makes me nervous as I'm afraid that once I do, it will start getting loose like others have mentioned. Better go buy some locktite first...lol

By the way, many years ago I officially changed it from Murphy's to Chris's law...lol

Eagle Hollow
04-23-2008, 12:27 PM
Ken and Chris,

You guys understand we don't live in a perfect world with perfect ANYTHING! ( Although, there was one perfect man here 2000 years ago!) Since I know I'm not perfect, I'm trying to figure out if I caused my breakdown. Most of us have caused operator errors...but it provides us with a learning experience. The only way you can avoid mistakes is by not doing ANYTHING. And that in it's self is the biggest mistake...geeze, I sound like a prreacher.

Chris, I just replaced my QC because it wasn't holding the bits tight. The new one was quite stiff, initially, but did loosen up. I put a tiny drop of 3 in 1 oil on each bit holder then wipe it around the circumference and take off any extra that is more than the thinnest film before mounting in the QC. At each bit change and at the completion of each carve, I lift the QC collar and release it quickly 3 or 4 times to loosen any sawdust, then blow it out, holding the collar up, with compressed air. Finally wipe out the inside with a shop rag.
This proceedure worked for neaely 200 hours. After I changed out the QC's I soaked the old one in turpentine for a few hours and then worked it open and closed a few times and it loosened up and now works better than the new one. I forgot to apply some blue Lock-tite when I install the new one so It came back off easily. The old one is back on (with the Lock-tite) and was working like a charm when my breakdown occurred. By the way, none of my bit holders have shown anywear except for the black finish.

Ain't we got fun!!!??

Jerry
1.126

Kenm810
04-23-2008, 01:11 PM
Jerry,

I Know exactly what you mean,
about operator error, operator oversight, operator not reading the Manual, this operator (meaning Me) should have my own error message. Something like "ya did it again dummy" or "what the --- were you thinking" and yes we do have to kept our machines Clean! I know a good portion of the problems are cause by our own mistakes. I seem to remember an old philosopher once saying that it's only human nature for people to make mistakes or cause accidents. ----- or was it only human nature to make mistakes and that most people are caused by accident. http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif

rjustice
04-23-2008, 06:17 PM
I have learned to monitor the flex-shaft temp. very closely and to raise the cover during a long carve project to let it (and the machine in general) cool down. This also gives me an opportunity to vacuum out the shavings and sawdust from the machine at the same time.

I think the key is to monitor the temp. for changes in normal operation. My flex-shaft runs about 90-95 degrees, depending on the ambient temp. If it starts to run signifcantly hotter, say 115-120, I figure it's time to lube using the LIQUID WRENCH CHAIN LUBE WITH MOLY.

All of this monitoring is made much easier with a non-contact, laser pointed, thermometer.

Now, if I could just get my QC loose so I can install the new one......

DStimpson,
If you havent been able to get your QC changed out yet email me at the address below. I have tools, and detailed instructions that will make your life much much easier!

Best Regards,

Ron

chebytrk
01-30-2009, 02:23 PM
Where can I buy Liquid Chain Lube with Molly? I hope my flex shaft is not ruined, but it got hot enough that the metal brace rubbed a spot on the rubber where the shielding is exposed (less than 1/32").

cnsranch
01-30-2009, 02:29 PM
You can find it at most auto parts stores, I found mine at Home Depot in the tool section.

However, the BEST stuff to use is CraneCams Assembly lube.

Look here:

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=9964&highlight=crane

The problem with the chain lube is its viscosity (my big word for the day).

Problem is that it's runny - if you allow the lube to run into the truck's bearings, they can burn out.

Replacing the flexshaft and/or buying CraneCams is nothing compared to bearings.

gman0069
01-31-2009, 07:49 AM
I just found Liquid Wrench w/ moly at my local Tractor Supply Company store. Very difficult item to find around here.

Billions
02-02-2009, 03:50 AM
Machines should never reach consumers improperly lubricated. We all know that. But they are. So unfortunately, we all read the horror stories and do our best to solve it with a third-party lubricant solution.

I can't blame any new enthusiastic carver being upset about this, we all should be, and I bet if you think back to when you got your machine, you probably were. But we all get used to it, learn the machine, and work it out. The way I justify it is to keep in mind that nothing else at this price point can do what this machine does with the ease that it does it with, so I put up with the high-strung nature of the machines.

Thank goodness for this forum, it's really helped me get through some frustrating times.

Dyna Rider
02-02-2009, 05:22 AM
Machines should never reach consumers improperly lubricated. We all know that. But they are. So unfortunately, we all read the horror stories and do our best to solve it with a third-party lubricant solution.

I can't blame any new enthusiastic carver being upset about this, we all should be, and I bet if you think back to when you got your machine, you probably were. But we all get used to it, learn the machine, and work it out. The way I justify it is to keep in mind that nothing else at this price point can do what this machine does with the ease that it does it with, so I put up with the high-strung nature of the machines.

Thank goodness for this forum, it's really helped me get through some frustrating times.

???

Jeff_Birt
02-02-2009, 08:25 AM
Machines should never reach consumers improperly lubricated.

I think this statement shows a lack of experience with how mechanical items are shipped to consumers. Please indulge an example or two: If you go to Wal-Mart and buy a bicycle you either have to put it together yourself (or you have to double check how their employee put it together). Part of this process involves lubricating the chain, adjusting the derailers and brakes etc. If you just slap the bike together it will never work right. Same thing if you buy a lawn mower. They are not shipped with oil in them, you have to fill it up with oil and assemble it your self and then adjust everything, check the tightness of bolts etc. If you buy a machine tool (lathe, mill, etc) one of the first things you need to do is lubricate everything, square it up, etc. You would never expect to just open the box and use it.

When mechanical items like these are made they are assembled and tested in some factory overseas and then put on trucks, taken to a big ship, shipped to the USA, taken off the boat, put on anther truck, taken to a warehouse, put on another truck, put on the shelf at your local Sears, and then you stuff it in your trunk and take it home. Somewhere in all that moving and jostling something is bound to get bumped out of place, or parts that need periodic lubrication will dry out from setting on a shelf for too long.

So, when you get your new toy home the first thing you want to do is rip it out of the box, plug it in, and start making chips with a big complicated project. In reality that is the last thing you should do. You should pull out the users manual and read through it at least twice. Then take the machine out of the box and check all the things that you might need to align (out-feed trays), move the axis by hand and feel for binding or hitting anywhere, and check all the parts the manual says need periodic lubrication. But, most folks just rip it out of the box (it is human nature) and start running it. Then when something goes wrong they are sad and shocked and think someone else is at fault.

So, I'm just asking everyone to apply a little common sense. You wouldn't buy a bicycle and never check the chain or tires so why would you buy a $2000 machine tool and never give things a once-over? I want everyone to be as happy with their machine as I am with mine.

Dyna Rider
02-02-2009, 11:04 AM
The following is taken from the CarveWright Owners Manual, pages 47 and 48
Please note the revision day, and the highlighted passage. Does any one see a problem?
If not please search for flex shaft, over lubrication, or spindle bearing failures.

I would have done a quote “You should pull out the users manual and read through it at least twice.” But my ability to that is being blocked by a modal window , that reads “The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.”

LHR Technologies, Inc. CarveWright™ System (Rev 1.36) 01/19/09

• Lubrication: Several areas of the CarveWright machine will require
occasional cleaning and re-lubrication.
o The flexshaft core should be cleaned and re-lubricated only if it
begins to exhibit heating during operation. To access the core, first
unplug the CarveWright machine from power. Firmly grasp the
flexshaft outer sheath where it is snapped into the machine’s cutting
head and pull it free from the head. The core is contained within the
sheath, and should slide out freely when grasped between finger
and thumb. Inspect the core for debris and clean with a lint free
cloth if necessary. The recommended lubricant is a commercially
available chain lube with Moly. Spray the lubricant onto the core
and let sit for an hour. After applying the specified lubricant slide the
core back into its sheath. When near full insertion, the core may
need to be carefully rotated with the fingers to ensure that its square
end engages correctly with the cutting motor. Once the core is fully
inserted in the sheath, it can once again be snapped into the cutting
head. Rotate the bit chuck if necessary to get the square end to
engage with the chuck.

atauer
02-02-2009, 11:12 AM
Any time you lubricate anything, you should always check and make sure that you do not have any excess lubricant. Excess lubricant will cause problems with bearings and anything that you lube, whether it is on the CW machine or a car, needs to be checked to make sure that it is not over lubricated.

Dyna Rider
02-02-2009, 08:14 PM
Any time you lubricate anything, you should always check and make sure that you do not have any excess lubricant. Excess lubricant will cause problems with bearings and anything that you lube, whether it is on the CW machine or a car, needs to be checked to make sure that it is not over lubricated.
I’m sorry, what page is that little caveat on?

Billions
02-02-2009, 08:52 PM
So I take it you guys agree with what I was getting at: This machine should be properly understood before use and cared for during its use.

But I'm also not beyond remembering that the lubrication of the flexshafts was not consistent for all machines reaching consumers - some were arriving to people as they should, and others required the consumer to do their own lubrication, using a lubricant not in the box - something not covered in the 'Quick Start Guide' rev. 1.1., and no warning in the box that you should lubricate the flexshaft on your own before operation. I only knew about it from reading these forums long before I ordered my first machine, so I was all right with it, as I'm fortunate enough to be quite mechanically-minded, and I do research on these things before I buy them. If there's one thing I've not had a problem with, it's the flexshafts, because I saw the forum sticky.

But what about the people who didn't get this message? People not as internet-savvy to follow the forums? They probably burned up a few flexshafts and felt sucker-punched. It's just inconsistent with the message of a 'Quick Start Guide' to not prepare a new machine for it's first use back in the Texas HQ, and it's certainly inconsistent to have machines shipping in different states of usability.

I love this machine but there's little denying it requires a very watchful eye and a lot of cleaning, maintenance, and attention. Like I said before, we all accept this sort of duty now, but a new consumer might experience frustration before learning the ropes, something this forum is excellent for - I hope all new users learn to glean the information here before they give up.

jacanah
02-03-2009, 10:29 AM
Everyone is right about one aspect of this thread. This forum is a must read for anyone that owns or is thinking about buying a CW. I'm guilty of using the quick start guide as I wanted to play with my new toy. But, I also noticed the intense vibration of the flexshaft and monitored the heat of the shaft in my first two carvings as test runs. As an ex-diesel mechanic, I'm a little anal-retentive on proper lubrication. The flexshaft worries me more about the machine than anything else and I need to really sit down and study the maintenance guide and users manual more. This machine should probably not be shipped with a quick start guide if it's not operation ready. It may be true that some products are shipped without the proper assembly or lubrication but there is a large difference in a $99 bike and a $2000 investment. If it is shipped without the proper lubrication, someone needs to find a new job. I categorize that in poor workmanship and inattention to detail. I'm overjoyed with this piece of equipment and understand that to keep anything with moving parts operational, it takes some care and maintenance. But don't send me a quick start guide if the machine isn't ready to "quick start". Not bashing CW here, just commenting on what I've read in this thread.

atauer
02-03-2009, 10:35 AM
Any time you lubricate anything, you should always check and make sure that you do not have any excess lubricant. Excess lubricant will cause problems with bearings and anything that you lube, whether it is on the CW machine or a car, needs to be checked to make sure that it is not over lubricated.

I'm making a general statement. Anytime you lube anything whether its on the machine or something else, you always need to make sure that you don't overlubricate the item.

atauer
02-03-2009, 10:45 AM
Also keep in mind that any lubrication can dry out over time.

Jeff Birt said it best. The machien gets lubed at the factory and then sits in a warehouse waiting shipping (could take up to a month, depending on factory conditions, shipping condititions, buying conditions, etc.). Once it leaves the warehouse, it goes into a hot truck which takes it to a large boat. It then sits on the large boat for a few days before the boat travels to the port of destination. That adds about 1 month to three months, depending on the cargo load, the area its coming from and the area its going to. The boat then sits at the port until its unloaded (add a couple more days) to another truck for shipment across the country. Depending on the final drop-off location, it could take up to a week for it to arrive at the final drop-off location, (warehouse, store, another factory, etc.) . It sits in that location until a consumer, (us), purchases it. It could potentially sit in storage for months beofre it is finally unboxed.

As you can see, there is a long period of time from the time it leaves the factory to the time it makes it to the consumer. It is possible that the lubrication could have been forgotten at the factory, (everyone makes mistakes), but it is more likely that the lubrication dried out during the shipping/storage period the machine goes through.

Since everyone does make mistakes, I can honestly say that I hardly ever read the manual before I use a product. However, I have caused numerous issues by not reading various manuals, and I am the only one to blame. Everyone should always read the manual, whether its for a CNC machine, or for a television bought at Wally world.

cnsranch
02-03-2009, 11:23 AM
Alex -

Why don't you guys just test and then formally recommend CraneCams, carry it in the store, put a 1 oz. tube in each box, and be done with this issue?

Billions
02-03-2009, 12:14 PM
With the lubrication so critical, including the lube in the box is a good option, and cnsranch's suggestion to offer the lube on your online store is an excellent one. One-stop shopping!

atauer
02-03-2009, 12:23 PM
Alex -

Why don't you guys just test and then formally recommend CraneCams, carry it in the store, put a 1 oz. tube in each box, and be done with this issue?

I'll ask/recommend.