Luck or intuition?

[twehr]

Last weekend, my board sensor died. On Monday, I ordered a new one, AND a spare, just in case. While I was at it, I ordered a quick change chuck, as well - can't hurt to have it sitting on the shelf, right?

Got the parts and installed the sensor - worked great! Did one project that had been hanging for a while. This morning, I started to do another project - a jig for Corian carving. Thirty seconds into the cut, the quick change chuck flew into pieces and shot the carving bit into the board.

Normally, I would have been pretty upset, but not today. I had a QC sitting on the self. Called LHR to get a new one coming, installed the one I had, and was back in business in under 30 minutes.

Call it luck or call it intuition - either way, I was sure happy to be ready for the inevitable.

[fwharris]

Yes, some times things just fall into place! Good thinking and planning on your part!

[Cmdr.Rav]

Doesn't sound like luck to me? It is a bummer you need to stock extra parts. So it must have been intuition ! So what happens tomorrow if it happens again? Lol

Rav

[Jeff_Birt]

It is a bummer you need to stock extra parts.


Why? I stock extra parts for many things.

I have a few extra duplex plugs as I use them all over the house, shop, shed. When I run out I buy a box of 10 and have them on hand for when they are needed.

I also keep a few extra drill bits (small easy to break sizes) so I don't get stuck in teh middle of a project. The bigger bits I can sharpen.

I also keep a small supply of glue, sandpaper, biscuits, saw blades, etc.

When the belt on my table saw was getting rather old, I bought one to have on hand when I needed to change it.

Why would a your carving machine be any diffrent? Being prepared only makes sense.

[Cmdr.Rav]

Why? I stock extra parts for many things.

I have a few extra duplex plugs as I use them all over the house, shop, shed. When I run out I buy a box of 10 and have them on hand for when they are needed.

I also keep a few extra drill bits (small easy to break sizes) so I don't get stuck in teh middle of a project. The bigger bits I can sharpen.

I also keep a small supply of glue, sandpaper, biscuits, saw blades, etc.

When the belt on my table saw was getting rather old, I bought one to have on hand when I needed to change it.

Why would a your carving machine be any diffrent? Being prepared only makes sense.





Hmm, I too keep extra router bits when one gets dull, yet I don't keep parts around for the router like in case the collet breaks. I too keep sandpaper in stock once it wears out I use a new one, but I don't have spare parts on hand for the sander! I too have extra saw blades for my radial arm saw and table saw. They too get worn and I like to have a sharp blade on hand. Again I don't have extra arbors or motors for the saws . Yes I too have a extra belt for my table saw for a worn part after much use. But I never have installed a new belt on my table saw and needed to replace the belt after using it twice but usually after many years and that is from wear and temp. change in the shop.

Drill bits too like sockets I loose them or break them so I have extra on hand. These things you mention are mostly accessories for tools, glue- supplies, saw blades after using it many times will become dull after time. Of course if you hit a nail maybe after one use you need to replace it. Duplex plugs yes are very useful and you may want to keep on hand.



I have not needed to change the collet on any of my routers. Now if I did have continual problems I might be incline to keep the part in stock or get rid of the tool! Nor do I stock any parts for any tools in my shop other then the accessories they use or extra batteries for my cordless tools.

But I have needed to replace the same part for my CC over and over. So was it luck or intuition twehr ordered an extra quick change chuck? I would say he was lucky to have it on hand, but it was intuition he ordered it in the first place. I would venture to say this isn't the first time he needed to replace this part.

So it its a bummer you need to stock extra parts. But it seems it is nessasary! Now having extra toilet paper on hand is being prepared and makes sense!!! ;)


Rav

[SandBuoy]

Well my intuition didn't get me to far and I was unlucky too. I ordered a new sensoe along with several others parts two weeks ago. Everything came but the sensor. Next day, my board sensor went out. Called LHR and told them my sensor went out and the tech went threw some checks with me.

He said yep, your sensor is shot and you need to send the old one in to get a new one. For $15 buck I threw it on the work bench. 13 miles to my PO at $4.00 a gallon for gas, then postage and my time to run it there. Forget it, I called Monday and ordered 2 new sensors and asked to have the one I paid for that didn't get sent to be sent with them.

Here it is 8 days later, cost me another $12.00 in shipping and I still don't have the parts I ordered. That the biggest reason to stick parts as far as I am concerned.

Sorry to vent guys, but the machine only has 22 hours on it. I made arrangement to have extra parts here, over $150 out of my pokcet, just so I didn't have to go threw this. Luck got me anyway and my intuition to have them sure didn't play out. I really like their techs and the sales folks over at LHR, their tops. But they need to do something about shipping cost and shipping time for us that have invested in their product.

[ChrisAlb]

Being a contractor for 30 years, I know even the most reliable and seemingly indestructible tools can go bad in a moments notice. So I don't have extra collates for my router, I have an extra router. I don't keep a spare motor for my circular saw, I have a second saw. My air guns? Framers, trimmers & brad nailers, I have two of each along with a seal kit and extra drivers for each. Blades, bits, batteries, air hoses etc.. that goes without saying.

Now don't get me wrong here. I didn't buy two of everything at once. I simply could not afford that. But as I could, I bought back up tools of most everything because down time is far more expensive than the second tool or "Part".

When my board sensor finally puked after 150+ hours, you can bet I bought two.

[deemon328]

Why would a your carving machine be any diffrent? Being prepared only makes sense.

I should bite my tongue on this, but I just can't do it.

While I agree that it makes sense to prepare for tool wear, most of the parts that you're describing, Jeff, are supplies for tools and not repair parts for the tools themselves. Or, in the case of the table saw belt, it was obvious that it needed replaced.

A QC destroying itself and propelling a running bit would be a factory recall if it was a router in our workshops, not an 'oh well, it must have worn out' from normal usage situation.

We've been conditioned to accept that breaking parts on the CW is considered normal operating expenses. We should never have to pay for a broken QC or bad board sensor, a faulty cover switch or an RPM sensor. These are engineering problems that should have been worked out.

I'm sorry to call you out on this, but in this case, I believe your post creates more of this conditioning of the user base that makes us believe that it's our fault every time something gets broken on the CW.

[DrBob]

HERE! HERE! Dustin
I agree 1000%, and LHR Should be doing something with these bad design parts for a permanent fix to the machines sold already not Wait for the next version offered with all the fixes, at a new price claiming a new heavy duty version. and screw the first machines were past that now.

[ChrisAlb]

Guess I'll open my yap again....LOL I'm sure I'll get a bad rap for this by some but.....here goes.

I just don't get how folks are having so much trouble with there machines??? I've had two things go wrong after 200+ hours of carving.

1) A torn belt - MY FAULT - didn't see a splintered edge on the bottom of the board and it got caught under the belt while carving.

2) Board sensor diodes came out on my 15 hour carve - Again, MY FAULT. Took it apart one day to clean it after the first 8 hours of use. Broke the little plastic pins on it's cover so it now vibrated. Still lasted an additional 150 hours before coming apart.

Did I just get lucky with mine?? I Think NOT. I have no luck except for BAD. I simply can't believe that "my" machine is any different or better than any others. Do I care for and use the machine properly, ABSOLUTELY.

After a year of using it and reading about all the issues others are having, I'm now convinced that the "MAJORITY" of these problems largely stems from a lack of basic mechanical knowledge and simply abusing the machine.

[DrBob]

Dont get me wrong, I love what the machine does but
1. bad sensors are not a user disfuntion,
2. dust build-up is not a user disfuntion,
3. falling off parts are not a user disfuntion,
3. motor magnets falling out are not a user disfuntion,
4. flex cable burn thru's not a user disfuntion,
5. poorly desined quich change chuck is not a user disfuntion.

[ChrisAlb]

Dont get me wrong, I love what the machine does but
1. bad sensors are not a user disfuntion,
2. dust build-up is not a user disfuntion,
3. falling off parts are not a user disfuntion,
3. motor magnets falling out are not a user disfuntion,
4. flex cable burn thru's not a user disfuntion,
5. poorly desined quich change chuck is not a user disfuntion.


Come on now buddy....

1) Sensors - perhaps you're right but mine work fine.
2) DUST?? ABSOLUTELY a USER issue. Keep it CLEAN buddy
3) Never had any parts "falling off". Perhaps making it work too hard?
4) Never had the magnets fall off. Perhaps making it work too hard?
5) Flex cable burn through? Mines is original. hardly even gets warm. Not lubed properly. Again - User
6) Chuck works fine after 200+ hours. Never had dimples in my adapters and when I lift it up, the bit "falls" out. Again - improper maintenance.

[DrBob]

Come on now buddy....

1) Sensors - perhaps you're right but mine work fine.
2) DUST?? ABSOLUTELY a USER issue. Keep it CLEAN buddy
3) Never had any parts "falling off". Perhaps making it work too hard?
4) Never had the magnets fall off. Perhaps making it work too hard?
5) Flex cable burn through? Mines is original. hardly even gets warm. Not lubed properly. Again - User
6) Chuck works fine after 200+ hours. Never had dimples in my adapters and when I lift it up, the bit "falls" out. Again - improper maintenance.

I to have never had these issues other than the CCC, but that doesn't mean they dont happen as you have read.

[DrBob]

Speeking of flex cable, can someone tell me if the spring inside has both ends of it has the windings gathered tight at both ends or just one end?

[castingman]

I have tryd to post her 3 times and it wont let me , that makes me madder than the machine does, wich is not very often.
I'll try again Michael

[castingman]

Now it worked

[DrBob]

What did you post? Michael

[Jeff_Birt]

The point is folks is that everything requires parts. I just replaced my first QC after 150+ hours. I had one on hand so it was a 15 min fix. I also have a few bit holders and traction belts on hand. These are all consumable items (like sandpaper, saw blades, router bits, and the other items I originally mentioned). Even the flex shaft is consumable, although I'm not sure what to expect for life. (It seems that if you check them and lube every once-in-a-while they last a long time, Al seem to have 500+ hours on one.)

I've had a board sensor get dirty, but never had one go bad. (I think we will see a marked reduction is complaints about the board sensors with sealed sensors being available.

As for other tools, I have an old 1/2" drill that I have an extra set of brushes for. I've used it a lot, put three sets of brushes in it already, so it only made sense to get an extra set last time. Collets will also wear out, you may not notice on a hand router but on an automated machine you sure will. I keep extra collets on hand for my benchtop mill at work.

My point was that I agree with the OP, it is better to be prepared and have the consumable parts on hand (which was his topic, not everything else that everybody else threw in). I just don't see it as surprising/strange/unusaul that the average CW owner would want to carry a few spare consumable parts on hand. Note again that this discussion has nothing to do with "part X should not fail so quickly".

[castingman]

My 2 cents

Haveing spare parts is a good thing to do. Flex cables being one of them [ haveing been throug 3 of them ] Proper care is importent , machines now are not made the way they once were. It seems to me the more high tech the more care must be taken. Case in point i replaced a 50s era 20hp double end belt grinder with a 2004 model that eats $500.00 bearings like candy just to upgrade the safty crap . My little guy has been bake to TX twice and i changed the z pack 3 times my self. Most of the problems i probley caused my self.

An old timer once told me if something was not going right look 5 times at what i was doing first, then look elswhere.

For the 4th time Michael

[Digitalwoodshop]

Dont get me wrong, I love what the machine does but
1. bad sensors are not a user disfuntion,
2. dust build-up is not a user disfuntion,
3. falling off parts are not a user disfuntion,
3. motor magnets falling out are not a user disfuntion,
4. flex cable burn thru's not a user disfuntion,
5. poorly desined quich change chuck is not a user disfuntion.

I am with Chris on this..... This machine has a whole lot of vibration due to the nature of the beast. Given that vibration causes the metal fatigue in the copper wires of the board sensor and the L2 of the power supply. Both issues have been dealt with by LHR. The sealed board detectors will last much longer as the copper LED and Sensor Leads are now mechanically secure and will not vibrate and break. Lessons learned by LHR and a FIX implemented. Good Job LHR.

Dust Build up is DEFIANTLY a USER Disfunction... It's a Choice.... Let the dust jam things like gears, belts, switches up.... OR provide a dust collection system to keep the machine cleaner.

Parts falling off..... I talked to a heavy equipment operator in the neighborhood that just took delivery of 2 Heavy Excavators. He said they spent about a day each going over each machine tightening every bolt and connector. When you feel the vibration the carve machine is producing you must EXPECT Screws and hardware to come loose over time. It is the User's responsibility to do maintenance and check the screws and hardware. Like changing the oil in your car..... Don't blame the car manufacture when you get 100 thousand miles on your car without a oil change and wonder why it died....

Motor Magnet falling off.... OK Shrink Wrap worked great on your Car Speed Control Magnet but here with the inertia of the spinning motor it will eventually fail. I think from MY experience that OVER LUBRICATION of the Flex Cable lets the Shrink Plastic soak in a SOLVENT BASED LUBRICATION causing the Strength of the Shrink to lesson causing the magnet to let go. I bet guys that properly lubricated the flex, not over lubricating had the Magnet last much longer than ME.... When I first found too much Lube in the Motor Head caused by ME over lubricating. I bet if you took a Cut Motor and never put a flex shaft in it, and on a work bench let it run for a year. I bet the magnet would stay just fine.... I am thinking that my Failure Analysis is leaning toward the lubrication solvent being the REAL CAUSE. The LHR Engineering FIX of the plastic magnet holder is another example of FINE ENGINEERING by LHR.


Flex Cable burning through.... Just like checking the air pressure in your car tires "Because" they will lose about 1 pound per month due to leaks through the rubber.

The Flex Shaft is a mechanical device that transfers the cut motor power to the cut head. To do this the METAL cable rotates at high speed and the tightly wound cable rubs as it moves. Metal to metal parts moving generate heat causing further degradation until failure. PROPER Lubrication LESSENS this damaging effect providing a mechanically effective and cost effective method to transfer energy.

LHR has been VERY PRO ACTIVE in posting instructions on the proper lubrication of the Flex Cable and Every Operator should be as familiar with that PROPER PROCEDURE as they are with checking the Air in the Car Tires. It should be second nature to touch the rubber Flex shaft while the unit is carving to check it's heat. A change in temperature like a low tire should be a trigger to the operator that ACTION is NEEDED..... And Proper Action followed by the book.... Proper Lubrication per the instructions. Just like there is a proper air pressure for every tire, there is a proper procedure to lube the shaft.

This is a USER RESPONSIBILITY..... Driving a car with a flat tire then posting a complaint that the Car Company made a defective tire is...... Well you get the idea..... Take RESPONSIBILITY for your machine.... Don't just post that it is LHR's FAULT....

And last but not least..... QC poor design...... NOT IN MY Opinion.

It has been MY experience that proper cleaning and lubrication of the QC will allow it to operate properly. I have found that dust building up inside the QC has been the route of many of my problems. I know they made some changes to the QC to allow it to work smoother but again in my opinion a GREAT DESIGN......

OK my Love Fest with LHR is over..... It really comes down to taking responsibility for maintaining your carving machine. Treat it like a Table Saw and never open a manual or maintain it then don't come posting NFG..... RTFM Read the @%&!& Manual....

AL

[castingman]

Al,
Well put Thank you, Michael

[DrBob]

I obviously expect to much for my money since it grows on the trees in my yard!
I knew I should have kept my mouth shut!!

[SandBuoy]

Well for those of you that have 150 hours on your machine with little or no problems I would expect you not seeing the others point. Why should you, you haven't had to wait on parts, had down time or had your machine sent in. But if you had had the problems a lot of these people have had, you bet you would see it differently.

I can't believe for one moment your any different in caring for your machine then most of us are, just luckier !! And I can just see them grinding their teeth at your comments about they aren't taking care of their equipment right like I am. Bet I have cleaned my machine and taken better care of it then most when they first came out.

I had a tile saw for over 7 years that was constantly submerged in water and tile muck. I never had a problem with it other then changing blades. It was designed for vibration, being soaked to the gills and taking ton of sludge and tile debris.

I have owned 4-5 tables saws that I traded up for bigger ones. Purpose of their design was for cutting wood, taking a lot of vibration and being a dust collector. Same with any other tool made for construction. You want to talk about vibration. What about my saws-all, rotary tools, jigsaws and hammer drills. They have a ton of copper wire and moving parts in them.

Point is, as much as you want to talk vibration being a cause for failure on CC, it doesn't compare to these tools. They were designed for these purposed and tested to hold up under these conditions. So why is this machines design make any differently.

Its purpose is to carve wood under ever dusty conditions, to hold up under the vibrations caused by it moving parts and should have been tested and design with parts that wouldn't fail under the conditions it was made for.

Like one mentioned, money doesn't grow on everyones trees. We bought the machine with a 200 hours warranty. That much should be expected for the money we laid out. We should expect little or no problems under the 200 hours cut off, little to no down time and not wonder every time you turn on the machine whats going to fail next.

Says what you want, this machine was made to carve wood. The vibration, dusty conditions and wear on moving parts should have been taken into consideration when designed and tested when offered on the marketplace.

[fwharris]

Flex Cable burning through.... Just like checking the air pressure in your car tires "Because" they will lose about 1 pound per month due to leaks through the rubber.

The Flex Shaft is a mechanical device that transfers the cut motor power to the cut head. To do this the METAL cable rotates at high speed and the tightly wound cable rubs as it moves. Metal to metal parts moving generate heat causing further degradation until failure. PROPER Lubrication LESSENS this damaging effect providing a mechanically effective and cost effective method to transfer energy.

LHR has been VERY PRO ACTIVE in posting instructions on the proper lubrication of the Flex Cable and Every Operator should be as familiar with that PROPER PROCEDURE as they are with checking the Air in the Car Tires. It should be second nature to touch the rubber Flex shaft while the unit is carving to check it's heat. A change in temperature like a low tire should be a trigger to the operator that ACTION is NEEDED..... And Proper Action followed by the book.... Proper Lubrication per the instructions. Just like there is a proper air pressure for every tire, there is a proper procedure to lube the shaft.


AL

I too as a new-be experienced the "over heated flex shaft do to improper lubrication" after about 6 hours of carve time on the machine. I had done several 20 to 30 minute carves with out any indications of the shaft getting hot. (being new I tried to observe every operation the machine did, even touching the flex shaft as it ran) While doing my first long carve (1.5 hr) at about 45 min. carve time I saw the outer cover of the flex shaft start to melt. Stopped everything and made my first call to LHR. After stating my problem, LHR said there was a new lube procedure posted on the forum and they would send out a new flex shaft. Ok great, I learned the new lube procedure and got a replacement flex shaft. Also learned there is more to this machine that what the owners manual tells you and that the forum is the place to go if you really want to know and under stand your machine.

My point in all of this, If LHR new about the problem with the flex shaft lube with lithium not meeting specifications why did they not include with every unit being sold an addendum, attachment or what ever to let the user know they had to something?

It would have been a lot more cost effective for LHR to print up 10,000 pieces of paper for each unit than having to replace the several hundred flex shafts that got melted because the new user did not spend several hours reading the forum prior to using the machine.

When I buy a new car I should not have to check the air pressure on the tires after 6 hours of use.

[castingman]

SandBuoy / Bob,

I hope theres not been a misunderstanding , I think LHR engenering did well for a machine i that price range, I have a saws-all thats been cutting 3" solid alum for years withlittle problems, i also see 5 axis mills with all kinds of problems and they are way heaver duty than the cc at $200.000.00 or more.
I guess i am more used to this kinda stuff , does'nt make it any better though, i get more frustrated trying to post stuff !

Michael

[DrBob]

That is one of the BIGGEST problems with society today and it BURNS my 4$$ that there is so much complacency as to why bother I will just take care of it myself or I have money to burn I will buy another one so I won't complain. And it is the money that runs everything, it is the people with money that drives this (they will pay, attitudes from manufacturing) and the people with money DO! and this drives up the prices of everything, that really if using common sense you would just not pay that much for all the cheap crap that is sold at ridiculous prices, especially when you know how cheep they get produced over seas.
I know not all is made over seas but the manufacturing bottom line is of most importance not quality, unless you REALLY care about customer satisfaction and your COMPANY REPUTATION!
Even auto companies do recalls for defective parts, they don't wait for the next car to be brought in, they fix all that they have sold.

[liquidguitars]

I have a 2000.00 guitar that needs 5.00 set of strings every month.

we have a 2000.00 router that needs 60.00 bucks
of replacement parts if needed. whats the big deal?

and upgrades are in the works everyday...

now to order a new board sensor for unit #2 :)

LG

[castingman]

DrBob

Again i did not mean to cause heartburn,I am not complacent at all , just willing to work with the person or company in question in good faith. Walk into any machine shop today with cnc equp, and see if you can prononce the names of the mills they are running. IT is sad that the market is price driven but the market is driven buy the consumer not the corp.
I find the little cc machine to be a good value for what i am doing with it.
my stating that i am use to it only means that my dealings are on a much larger scale, not that it's any better.
No i am going to try to cut some spoons for a pattern nad probly pull soom hair out in the process
Hope i did not offend anyone Michael

[ChrisAlb]

That is one of the BIGGEST problems with society today and it BURNS my 4$$ that there is so much complacency as to why bother I will just take care of it myself or I have money to burn I will buy another one so I won't complain. And it is the money that runs everything, it is the people with money that drives this (they will pay, attitudes from manufacturing) and the people with money DO! and this drives up the prices of everything, that really if using common sense you would just not pay that much for all the cheap crap that is sold at ridiculous prices, especially when you know how cheep they get produced over seas.
I know not all is made over seas but the manufacturing bottom line is of most importance not quality, unless you REALLY care about customer satisfaction and your COMPANY REPUTATION!
Even auto companies do recalls for defective parts, they don't wait for the next car to be brought in, they fix all that they have sold.

Hey buddy, you know my financial situation right? Ain't no money trees in my yard....lol

That's PRECISELY why I take GREAT CARE of my machine and it shows with little to no problems. I think far too many people spend far too much time looking for "others" to blame.

As for SandBuoy's comment...


Well for those of you that have 150 hours on your machine with little or no problems I would expect you not seeing the others point. Why should you, you haven't had to wait on parts, had down time or had your machine sent in. But if you had had the problems a lot of these people have had, you bet you would see it differently.

I can't believe for one moment your any different in caring for your machine then most of us are, just luckier !! And I can just see them grinding their teeth at your comments about they aren't taking care of their equipment right like I am. Bet I have cleaned my machine and taken better care of it then most when they first came out.

Please don't take this wrong but luck? LOL If I were the ONLY ticket holder in a 50/50 I'd loose...lol

I certainly can "See Their Point" BUT, what's the CAUSE of the problems?? I'm sorry but I simply refuse to believe that "MY" machine was...

1) Made by more skilled hands
2) Made with better parts
3) Made any differently than any other machine out there.

There HAS to be a reason why I have few to no problems and others are having so many (especially the same things over and over). Luck, has nothing to do with it at all.

And if others are "grinding their teeth over these comments" of success, then they aren't LEARNING anything from those very comments. Hence, the biggest problem of all.

I made some mistakes, learned from them and never had the problems again. Think about it.

[Cmdr.Rav]

I too have over 200 hours on my CC, but still it is a bummer it is needed to stock parts that continue to go out! Gee my truck cost me $30,000, but I don't even have a quart of oil for it! It is a 4 X 4 and it gets vibration and as it is used the parts wear. Yet when the water pump goes out of it ( a common problem in vehicles) I don't stock a spare water pump or expect it will go out 10,000 miles down the road!

I have an older Delta contractor table saw that I use often, again other then blades I have not replace any parts. Nor do I have a second saw. Yes I have more then one routers not for back ups but each one has a different bit for different uses. I also have a few cordless drills again for different uses. Do I need 4 drills... no I am lazy and don't like changing bits! I do stock 1/8 blades for my band saw due to the continual breaking.

I too like my CC and I think it is FANTASTIC there is a handful that haven't needed to replace a sensor or QC. The thing is there is no in between to compare the CC / CW to a simular machine. The closest thing I have is my surface planner and that is by looks not operation. With my planner it has never locked up from cranking it too high or has the rollers ever became stuck!

So nothing to compare the machine to, people expect to get some mileage out of their machine before parts need replaced! If all the sensors or QC went out around 200 hours then it would be expected and keeping the certain sensor and QC would make sense. But this isn't the case, one states at 150 hours a QC needed to be replaced. Then you have somebody with 25 hours etc.

Yes not reading the manual and knowing the machine can and will cause problems. I do stock extra sand paper belts. They can be torned easily and are belt sander belts catch something and they rip.

But it is still a bummer it is needed to stock sensors that get dirty during use and go out. Unless someone never cleans their machine, then you can't blame user fault for normal use. Or worry about a QC going out during each use! I look forward to the day the issue is addressed and we won't need to stock 5 sensors. We will only need to have one and then replaced after several hours! This is only my 2 cents and by no means do I claim to be an expert only a fellow CC owner and woodworker! :neutral:

Rav

[Steven Alford]

The most important thing we all need to remember is that this is still a new product. It has only been on the market for a few years. You might as well say that we are the beta testers. And it will be this way for several years to come.

When some of you mention other tools that you have that have not broken down under near-same working conditions, do not forget, these tool designs have been around for maybe 20 years or more, plenty of time to work out the bugs.

I agree with the majority though, it is a major frustration to have something down for more time than it is up. But if you think of it as a beta machine, it is pretty awesome.

Hopefully I too will be one of those people with "LUCK" and not be broken done most of the time. But then, I plan on doing a lot of routine PM's.

Steve

[SandBuoy]

Castingman, one thing I will agree with is the machine is remarkable. And your right about the price also. Its at a price range that makes it affordable to many people that can't afford another brand of CNC carving machine. If also offers some features that even the higher priced don't offer. One I appreciate the most is the ability to carve at lengths of over 8'.

But theres no denying, even CW knows, they have a problem with the sensors and some other parts wearing out way to fast. But in all fairness to CW, they will almost unquestionably replace the parts needed to resume operations with little or no hassle. Now if they could work on getting the parts out a little faster that would take some of the sting out of being down.

Bob, your right also, the american public seems to have settled for what they can get these days. Your not suppose to complain about workmanship or quality, because you have brought most of it onto yourself. Even thou most of us stride for that very thing in a finish product, we have to settle for what being offered on the market becuase its all about the same these days.

[pkunk]

I obviously expect to much for my money since it grows on the trees in my yard!
I knew I should have kept my mouth shut!!
Would you send me one of the seedlings from your money trees, please. :p:D
I'll pay double the shipping and if it grows I'll share the profits.:D

[DrBob]

That was the absolute funnest!!!
Thanks for that pkunk!

[Digitalwoodshop]

Interesting opinions.....

AL

[fwharris]

I would guess that if all of the CC/CW users were truthful (not saying that anyone has lied) that some where over 50% of their problems that they have experienced have been operator influenced.

Beyond that it would be interesting to know what problems are caused by our different operation conditions:

Materials carved.
- wood.
- corian/acrylic
- Foam
- all of the above
- other

Dust collection.
- just shop vac out
- DC system using shop vac
- DC system using real DC
- Down draft
- Up draft
- combo up & down draft
- added air flow to blow away chip/dust

Machine clean up after each carve
- quick vac. to remove what I can see
- thorough vac to remove all that I can get
- low volume air to help blow out what vac can't get plus the fine dust
- high volume air to blow out what the vac can't get plus the fine dust.


There is also frequency of preventive maintenance, types of preventive maintenance, room/building conditions and the list goes on.


Comparing the CW machine to the other tools in the shop is not a fair comparison unless that other tool is controlled by a computer and has similar moving mechanisms.

[castingman]

Things are changing,

I have noticed that in the machie tool market [people are demanding moreQ.C than they did 10 years ago. So things are getting better .
All the little sensers and circet [?] heck i can't even spell it boards anyhow i think can be easly damaged.

DrBob, How about a shoot for me aswell, I seem to have burned my money tree up.

Michael

[SandBuoy]

I don't think any of us expect anything more then what the machine was advertised to do. Thats to carve woods and other advertsed materials. We aren't asking for this machine to last over 200 hours before needing parts. We're only asking that the majority of the machine preform up to 200 hour for the $2000+ investment we made as stated in their policy.

We're not cutting concrete, using a water cooling system or using this machine to do anything other then what it was suppose to be designed for. I didn't read anywhere in the manual where I need to invest in a down draft system or put up a controlled amotphere room for this machine to stay operational.

I held up my part of the bargain and cleaned the machine out after every use. Lubes it even if it needed it or not. I read the manual, read the post, stocked a few extra parts for when the machine got some realistic run time on it and laid down hard earned cash for it for the company to pocket. I own more lubes, cleaners and spare parts for this machine then I do for my car, power tools and koi pond put together. Why, becuase I like what the machine can do am I am willing to go that little extra to keep it running.

I really don't care if a product is 2 months or 5 years old. I didn't sign up to lay down thousands of dollars to be a ginny pig for a products that should have been in research, developement and proven to last the warranty time before it hit the shelves. I also don't believe, or hope not, that CW purposely put bad machines on the market before a lot of testing went into it.

Pkunk, I would send you one of my money trees but I am afraid its only producing pennies now. Retirement and a few toys have pretty well sucked mine dry.

[ChrisAlb]

I think what I mean about "knowing the machine" is more like, being able to get a "feel" for it. I have a lot of woodworking tools. Enough to build million dollar homes from the ground up which I've done for 30 years. Honesty, I don't remember ever having read the manual for any of them including this one.

I knew the second I opened the box that, "this puppy was unlike any of them". I "instinctively" knew that it would have to be handled differently than any other I owned. This machine cannot be compared to table saws and routers, wet saws and lathes, chop saws and skill saws or even other CNC machines which all use stepper motors and such. Those are all VERY simplistic devices compared to this. I have no other machine that has "computer" chips, IR sensors and servo motors in it.

Being a bit of a computer geek, when I opened the box my first thought was of a printer. Now obviously I know it's a "woodworking" machine but still, I think of it as a printer ever time I use it.

I read in here where people say they clean it "after" ever use. I clean mine "before, during (every 15 minutes or so) and after" every use. I read that people lube their machine whether it needs it or not. That would be too much in my view. Other than the flex shaft and QC which get done each week after 30 hours or more, I've only lubed the rest of it twice since I pulled it from the box almost a year ago.

I have no dust collection system or climate controlled environment and see no need for either. I work in my basement. It has bare block walls which anyone who lives in the Northeast knows, is hardly a "stable" environment. I've run this baby in 45 to 95 degree temps without issue. The humidity levels are much like a yo yo. Again, no problems from any of that.

I made mention in past posts of "working the machine too hard". After so many years of working with various tools, I have an "ear" for when I know they are straining to do the work. Now once in a while that's OK but not all the time. When I set out to do a carve, I start out as shallow as possible and increase the depth only as far as needed to get the detail I want. I've helped many folks in here with their projects and I can't tell you how many times I've opened their MPC to see they have a carved region that's a 1/2" or more deep with a pattern set that deep as well. Why? Most carvings will look great with everything no more than a 1/4" deep. Now I do deep reliefs as well but I take "extra" care when doing them.

So again I have to ask, being that my CW is exactly the same as any other, why do I have such success while others are having so many problems? The only variable I can see is the "human factor" and the way they use and or care for the machine.

These four pictures are an example of what I mean by working it too hard. The first two are .25 deep for the region and pattern. The second two are .5 deep on both. They look the same but the CW has to work twice as hard for the second two.

By the way, the bird is from Carvebuddy. Michael has outstanding quality patterns at OUTSTANDING prices!! Thanks Michael!!:D

[twehr]

but I was really just making a comment that "Regardless of whether it was luck or intuition, I was glad to have the part on the shelf."

As a practice, I don't keep extra parts for most machinery on hand. As a matter of practice I DO pay attention to the experiences of others. In general, it is inevitable that the QC will eventually need to be replaced. If we knew exactly when that was going to happen, we would wait and only buy it the week before it is needed.

But then... all of us will eventually die. If we know when that is going to happen , we can wait until the last minute to buy insurance and tell people we love them. Since we DON'T know when it is going to happen, we buy insurance today, and hopefully tell our loved ones how important they are to us.

Point is - if you have a reasonable expectation that something WILL happen, you might as well get prepared to handle it.

Most of us are using these HOBBY machines in some form of COMMERCIAL environment. That fact, alone, should tell you you need to be take different precautions than you might with your "professional" equipment.

Someone asked what I would do when the next one breaks. The first thing I did, even before fixing the last one, was to call LHR and get a new replacement on the way.

It may not be important that any particular individual actually learn from the posts of others. It IS important, however, that people continue to post their experiences - just in case others want to learn from it.

[Kenm810]

twehr,

You have nothing to be sorry for
Thank You for Your Posts

[fwharris]

Twher,

No apology needed! I took your post as your mini celebration for having a part on hand and did not have to sit for a week to get a new one. A little bit of luck and a little bit of intuition!

[ChrisAlb]

I agree Tim, no apology needed. It's good to have these conversations as I believe many do learn from them. I know I do. All threads tend to spiral off the original topic and this one is no different.

If all this back and forth helps even one person out there, it's all worth it. Isn't that what this forum is all about? A place to learn, share, and yes, even state opinions, good, bad or indifferent.

As long as no one gets rude and I don't think anyone here has at all, it's all a good thing.

[aparks]

I know I have been helped greatly from all the good info posted by everyone here. I'm still going up the learning curve but it's a great ride. As others have said, "Search is your friend" and "A clean machine is a happy machine" -- not to mention the operator! :D

To all who have and who continue to contribute to this forum: THANKS!

Allen