I want a machine back!

[mwildes]

I took my second machine back to Sears during the 1st week of March for a replacement. Was told I could not re-order until sometime in April, probably 6 weeks. In the meantime, Sears puts on a 20% online sale, and I could not even place a backorder for future delivery.

I call Sears, write Sears, and go to the local store..... all I get are vague "i dunno" answers about expected availability. No one knows anything.

I read lots of rumors posted here about Sears discontinuing the CC, Sears not having any current order with LHR, Woodcraft selling the refurbished returns from Sears, etc, etc, etc.........

Surely, someone from Sears and/or LHR is reading these posts that knows what the real story is. I just wish they would would post it, to end the rumor mills. I need a machine back! It had troubles, but well worth working through or getting another. I bought my CC during a 20% tool sale, and received another discount for my Craftsman Club card and I paid a little over $1,400. If LHR would honor the price I paid at Sears, I would order the replacement today and forget about Sears.

Just my thoughts.... thanx for listening.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Doubt LHR would give you a machine at $1400.00.... Looks like you just got caught up in the transition time of "I don't Know" and more than likely you are out of a machine for a few months with your money tied up. Don't think anyone will post any real information about what was going on. Decision's made at the Corporation level are made at a time to cause the least resistance to employee or in your case customer problems.

Case in point.... San Diego in 1999, Sony and Qual Comm were in a partnership to make Cell Phones. Qual Comm developed the CDMA technology Coded Division Mutable Access, that let a Cell phone tower antenna go from transmitting and receiving one phone call per antenna to a digital multiplex that let the same antenna transmit and receive 16 or 32 phone calls at a time in Analog. Breaking each sound bite into digital and transmitting and receiving it in bits and reassembling it very quickly so you never know the difference.

Qual comm was keeping the information very tight and would not share willingly with Sony. The Qual Comm/Sony phone in production was a Generation 3 Chip Set if I remember right and Qual Comm had just released to market a Qual Comm only Generation 4 Chip Set Phone with more features. So who was going to buy last year's model from Sony / Qual Comm?.... It was a holiday Monday weekend and after Sony San Diego had closed on Friday the decision to close the whole Sony / Qual Comm division was made in Japan. They didn't want any LEAKS to San Diego.... On Tuesday Morning everyone shows up and the first thing they find is everyone's email was not working. ( Years earlier at Sony a FIRED Employee send a Nasty eMail to "ALL" including all of JAPAN containing many 4 letter words. Sony Learned from that....) Shortly after the start time a meeting was called in the main conference room. The meeting started out with a summary of all the GREAT things that had been accomplished.... It ended in "Everyone here is FIRED and we are closing down the whole division. In the mean time both day and night shift of the Sony Security Guards had moved in outside the conference room and small groups were escorted one on one to there desk where they found a white copy paper box. In the box was placed everything of a personnel nature under the video and one on one surveillance. The employee was then walked to his car in the Badge activated Secure Parking lot and the badge was retrieved from the employee as he or she was asked to leave under the watchful eye of a San Diego Sheriff's Car outside the gate........

As a Calibration Lab guy I spent two weeks with the Phone group as a HP Calibration Team did all the high end CDMA test equipment calibration as I updated the equipment records for Sony. The average piece of Sony Test Equipment was worth between $20k and $100K.

That just goes to show you the length a company will go through to protect it's property from disgruntled employees.

This story has a nice ending as within a few months Erickson hired almost every former Sony employee and developed a new Cell Phone with Qual Comm.

In the down sizing I saw in the picture tube production side of Sony it was the same.... Your E Mail was off when you entered work that day and a call to the Network guy was followed by a "I will look into it".... followed by a Click.... He knew...... One Manager called to the office and given a Copy Paper Box and a escort was very shocked as His Wife was in the upper ring of the Human Resources office..... That had to hurt...... The 4 buildings at Sony are now just a dusty parking lot.... The main Engineering Building still stands and is active.

So with the Corporate Sears and LHR no one is going to talk as LHR tries to build the bridge back to a nice relationship with Sears...... And Sears looks at it's MASSIVE LOSS and just laughs.... Who gets caught in the middle..... You do mwildes.

Have seen Sears / K Mart in the news as talk of splitting off the unprofitable side of the business divisions. K Mart is playing hard ball too with it's employees. I have a family friend who has worked in Corporate K Mart for 20 years. In an attempt to cut the fat or get rid of future retirement payments they played the Moving Game with the Manager. Moved 3 times in 3 years finally told he was going to inner city Detroit, MI with kids in High School. He finally had enough and QUIT... That was the goal of K Mart..... Make em Miserable and hope they QUIT..... My uncle worked for a Local K mart in the 80's and just as he had enough time to start getting medical they "Let him go".... But offered them all a new job doing the same at starting pay..... To this day I don't shop at K Mart....

The first few pictures are a year old and show the Sony Buildings I worked in as a dusty parking lot in the making and the last one was the first building I worked in at Sony in Philly as a Service Center. We closed that building and combined into one. Two years later it too was gone... From 27 service Centers in the US in 2000 to 1 in San Diego in 2005.....

They call it progress..... The cost to fix electronics like the DVD Player, Phones and Play Station. I did Play Stations for about 2 years of my 4 in Philly and in the end a repair was a swap out with a refurbished unit and yours went to Mexico to be done on an assembly line...


I actually had 14.25 seconds of fame shown on the CBS Evening News on Thanksgiving Day of 2002. This story aired and I missed getting it on VHS but the written story is here. The video was on line for a few years.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/28/eveningnews/main531184.shtml

I was currently working on Sony Tivo's fixing a power supply problem in about a dozen boards when the film crew of CBS Evening News did this story and they filmed me fixing a power supply. About 14.25 seconds of it ended up on TV with other technicians being shown doing various work. Two years later they were closed..... I was getting just over $20.00 per hour.... As a Technician not a supervisor...... In Mexico..... $20.00 a WEEK......

All 3 Navy Ships that I have served on have been sunk as a target or scrapped. Here is the last one I was on, that was a target for the Battle Group going to the Pursan Gulf a few years ago. Live Firing, Real Targets, Decommissioned unmanned ships but still targets.. Real World training. Look at Final Mission..... http://sinkex.uss-buchanan-ddg14.org/

The Sony Picture Tube Division made tubes in a 24 hour day for over 20 years and at it's peek when I was there made 32, 27, 20 TV Tubes and 19 and 17 inch Computer Monitor Tubes in the 4 buildings in a row. They had a tile hallway from one end to the other that was called the Mile of Tile.... You couldn't take pictures inside the building but as you walked the Mile of Tile windows looked in on production and the Fanuc Yellow Robots going about it's business of moving tubes around. It was a state of the art plant... Now a Parking lot. Sad.... I was touring the 32 inch TV Assembly area the morning when the Oklahoma City building went down. Imagine seeing it on Forty 32 inch TV's in test mode showing broadcast TV on a conveyor and all showing the devastation. On 911 I was in Philly fixing a playstation and my work bench TV showed the first hit.... as did the 45 other Technicians in 4 rows of benches and conveyors. Work stopped....

Times change and we must change with it.... I honestly question the stability of LHR in light of the past year. Lets hope they keep going and start making a profit and move on to a bigger home user model. Then we get into the problem of service..... Can you really ship a 500 pound 24 or 48 inch machine back to LHR a few times for service and they still make money.....

LHR you have my FULL SUPPORT..... Every Anatomy of "?" Post I make is another unpaid Customer Support posting making for a healthier population of Carve Machine Users. And I learned from the BETA Group myself reading SO many posts before my machine even arrived.

As for creating more excitement among Carve Users the release of a rotary sled around the Christmas Buying Season would be a great boost to the Interest and make for a great TV Commercial.... But I don't have any inside info for this product just wishful thinking of what I would try to do as LHR. They can use all that April Survey info to know what TV Program to buy TV Commercial Time on to catch MY eye..... Snicker..... And based on how much I make they will know how much to charge..... Snicker.....

Good Luck,

AL

[Ken Massingale]

Contact Sears Customer Relations, not Customer Service, and don't stop going up the ladder until you are satisfied. Worked for me, after over 2 weeks of no machine available, suddenly UPS rolled up with one.
ken

[Cmdr.Rav]

Back to Sears, I have purchased other Craftsman brand power tools and that same day an exercise machine for my wife. ( yes she uses it almost everyday!) Anyway I bought a tablesaw, radial arm saw and a 6" jointer. The salesman told me if the tools go on sale within 30 days I can bring in my reciept and recieve a credit/refund for the difference.

So if your CC comes in and is on sale let a sales person know and get your difference. This a Sears policy and applies to all stores. I know some outlet stores like the one in my town will not sell the CC due to all the issues. So maybe some main stores are following suit?

So even if you can't get the unit for 6 weeks insist on buying it now while it is on sale. I would use my Sears card so in the event you buy a machine directly from CW you can cancel your order. As forth to CW ever lowering the price on the CW LOL I with Al I doubt it!

Rav

[Jeff_Birt]

Actually, LHR did make a statement about this a few weeks ago.


http://www.carvewright.com/forum/showthread.phpt=6735&highlight=splitsville

Read through the thread and you will hear what LHR has to say. All the other speculation is just that, speculation...

I keep telling folks that it is not going to do you any good to keep returning machine after machine to Sears. If you have a problem work with LHR to resolve it (and find the root cause of the problem, be it machine or operator). You will be a lot happier in the long run.

[MikeMcCoy]

I can't speak for Jeff but I do think you missed his point. Shipping and rough handling of a heavy machine can cause problems. I've installed very expensive simulators for the military that worked perfectly before putting them in the crate and had problems with many once they arrived. I've had several problems with mine but they were all part of the operator induced learning problems. I went through all the checks that were recommended and didn't have any other problems that weren't caused by me.

[ScottS]

Well After reading all that I agree that I hope LHR can stay ahead. Great machine when it works and Not all that hard to work look at common problem and redesign and improve parts . $1899.99 is excellent for a machine like this for home use and I would even venture to say most would go up to 2499.99 for a bullet prof machine.


Anyways Jeff I hit your link but seems its bad or the post is gone. I was curious to see what LHR had to say.

Scott

[Jeff_Birt]

Let's try it again...

http://www.carvewright.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6735&highlight=splitsville

[Bubbabear]

Bu bu but Jeff that post is no where near as fun as all the rumors. :) ;) :rolleyes:

[mwildes]

My issues with Sears are separate from my issues with LHR and the machine. I would just like an educated response from Sears with a date of availability so I can inform my customers of an approximate wait time. It’s bad business for me to just tell them “I dunno…”. I purchased through Sears for the advantage of their (usual) great customer service, price, return policy, and extended warranty.

My issues with LHR and the machine are due to machine problems that are not operator related. I would normally agree that the best results may come from working directly with LHR. But the 2nd machine that I returned was just too much:

1) Board sensor not working right out of the box. Call LHR and they send me a pdf file on how to check compression roller pressure. I call them back with readings, way too low (around 20 lbs). They can send me some spacers to install under the crank or I can try to purchase some at the local hardware store. I ask them to send some, but to save time I will also buy and install the spacers. Roller pressure now up to 85 lbs. (to this day, have not rec'd any spacers)

2) Still experience the board sensor error. Call LHR, they'll send me a new sensor. That's two problems right out of the box. Machine can not be run for at least 10 days after getting it into my shop.

3) First run out of the box, a set-screw loosens in the bit. It jams in the quick release chuck. With some effort I get it out, but the inside is scarred and I can never get another bit out again without forcing it. Call LHR. They send me a new chuck and send me a pdf on how to clean every new bit and re-install the set screws with Lock Tite BEFORE I use them.

4) About 4 hours on the machine and I start getting "Check Cut Motor" error. It continues to run, but slower. Call LHR. A magnet may have fallen off. I can run it as is, or I can send the cut motor to them for repair. It could take 2 weeks. They don't have any cut motors to send me first. I opt to keep it as it is.

5) Machine up and running. Flex shaft melts the cover while it's running unattended. Call LHR, I'm a few hours over my flex shaft warranty, so I have to purchase a new one with shipping at nearly $60. LHR also sends me a pdf file about lubricating the shaft BEFORE using it since some shafts are delivered with no lube from the factory.

6) About 5 hours on the machine and it begins a bad habit of constantly stopping to "Check Lid"". Call LHR. They tell me how I have to remove the lid switch, clean it, and reinstall it. It works for a while, but not very long before I have to repeat the process over and over.

7) Install the probe, close the cover and the chuck spins, pulling the wire out. Apparently it's suggested that this problem can be "overlooked" by disengaging the flex shaft when scanning.

8) A small tear develops in the traction belt. Mend the tear. Belt is just 10 hours old.

9) Machine gets all the way to about 30 hours of run time. The quick release chuck begins to vibrate and wobble while carving, causing detail carves to be erratic. Everything is tight and connected correctly, no reason for this wobble. Called it quits, returned the machine.

If this were a new band saw, or table saw, or any other major piece of equipment for my shop, it would have gone back a long long time ago. This machine had just too many non-operator issues. I understand that this machine needs a lot of extra loving tender care. Every inch is thoroughly cleaned and lubed between projects. When the machine works, it is worth it. But LHR needs to really step-up the quality control of the machines. If shipping is the issue, then change shipping companies and/or improve the packaging.

Several users have designed and built custom dust collecting systems. If the machine requires dust collection, why not build a 4” port into the side cover? My other big equipment needs dust collection, but I don’t have to design and build a custom table since the machine comes equipped.

I don’t need to pre-lube the bearings on my band saw, they come lubed and ready to use.

I don’t have to dismantle, clean, and re-assemble parts with Lock Tite before I use them.

Some users have installed electronics to bypass faulty safety switches, lid switches, etc. Perhaps a “safety bypass” accessory can be sold?

Custom air systems to clean the cut area have been designed. If this works (and it appears that it works very well), why not have it part of the package? My scroll saw came with the same idea…. already installed.

Someone mentioned that most of us would pay $2,500 for a top notch machine. I’m one of those folks.

There just comes a point when enough is enough. The machine is awesome when it works. I have enough commissions to warrant the purchase of a 2nd machine. I just hope when I get my first machine back and get to buy a 2nd, they are a newer release that are at least capable of running as soon as they are unpacked.


Again, thanx for listening.

[Jeff_Birt]

With all due respect, please let me elaborate on my suggestion of 'user error', and by no mean am I making an excuse for a lack of quality control.



1) Board sensor not working right out of the box. ...roller pressure. ...way too low (around 20 lbs). ...and install the spacers. Roller pressure now up to 85 lbs.

2) Still experience the board sensor error. Call LHR, they'll send me a new sensor.

8) A small tear develops in the traction belt. Mend the tear. Belt is just 10 hours old.


It seems from most reports that the biggest issue now is rough handling during shipping. If the machine is bumped on a corner it can be knocked out of kilter. This can cause low down pressure, board sensor problems and torn traction belts. Incidentally, bench top planers also have this same issue. I'll talk more about machine inspection later on.



3) First run out of the box, a set-screw loosens in the bit. It jams in the quick release chuck.... Lock Tite BEFORE I use them.

The procedure for installing and properly cleaning and loc-titing the bits/adapters is on page 32 of the users manual. You should check the set screw EVERY time you use an adapter. The can come loose and ruin your day. Again, more of machine inspection later.




4) About 4 hours on the machine and I start getting "Check Cut Motor" error. It continues to run, but slower....

5) Machine up and running. Flex shaft melts the cover while it's running unattended. Call LHR,


As you can see this two items were indeed connected . If you look on page 38 of the users guide you will find the lubrication recommendation, which basically says, "if it starts to get too warm lubricate it". I would suspect that your was getting very warm and noisy and went unnoticed by you except for the CCM error. The flex shafts SHOULD NOT be shipped from the factory unlubricated period. You should always monitor the shaft every few hours of operation. No matter how many hours you have on the machine. (Just like you should always periodically check your tire pressure no matter how many miles on your car.)



6) About 5 hours ... to "Check Lid"". Call LHR.

7) Install the probe, close the cover and the chuck spins, pulling the wire out. QUOTE]

Both of these are problems. I've not had a single issue with the cover switch but there have been a handful of folks who have. I wonder if it is related to a particular type of wood dust (MDF, etc). I tend to pull the flex shaft when scanning anyhow as if prevent the natural rotational motion of the flex shaft sheath (not the motor) from twisting the probe (prevents some noise in scans.)


[QUOTE]9) Machine gets all the way to about 30 hours of run time. The quick release chuck begins to vibrate and wobble while carving, causing detail carves to be erratic. Everything is tight and connected correctly, no reason for this wobble. Called it quits, returned the machine.


Most (not all) chuck problems are caused by lack of proper cleaning and lubrication. Check out pages 38&39 of the users guide and http://www.carvewright.com/downloads/tips/CarveWright_Tips_and_Tricks_Jan08.pdf, for some maintenance tips.


Let me clearly state that I am not trying to suggest that all of your problems are user error. What I am trying to suggest is that without finding the root cause of each issue you will never know. Without this knowledge no number of new machines will help (in the long run.)

I have installed many types of equipment over the years and have learned to not assume that everything is exactly right on (first) start up. On every CNC machine I have installed (bench top sized machine on up) there is ALWAYS checks, measurements and calibrations that need to be done. Then you run some tests to confirm some basic operation and slowly bring up more features of the machine. (This does not excuse quality control prblems.)

For example: If I bought a new table saw I would not assume that the fence was square (or that the blade was square to the table). First I would check that the belt tension was correct. Next, the blade to table alignment and then the fence. Then I would make sure that blade angle and elevation controls were working and locking properly.

The point is any new equipment we use in our shops require some inspection and setup when we first start them up. If it is a brand new type of equipment to us then it is vital that we read the users guide very thoroughly (a few times) and apply some basic common sense when learning to use the machine. When we have a problem with a piece of new equipment it is equally important that we find the root cause, be it machine or operator. That is the only way we can truly fix the problem.

Now, after having rambled on this long I realize that we all come to this point (a CW/CC machine owner) from diffrent paths. We have forum members for who computers and/or woodworking is/are completely new. Some folks are more mechanically inclined than others, some have previous CNC experience and others have none.

That being said, I really wish there was a better machine start up guide in teh users manual. It should cover checking the machine for square, checking for proper head pressure, what to look for on the first test run (and a test MPC to run), and what to look for over the first 2, 5, 10, and 20 hours. When I say what to look for, I mean, things like proper bit plate operation, how the machine homes, keeping the board under rollers, etc. If you watch your machine and learn how it operates anytime it is not quite right you will immediately hear it. (most of the no-quite-right part has been me thud far.)

Most of all, I want you and everyone else to be as happy with your machine as I am with mine. I have no stake in CW as a company, but rather my years as a field service engineer makes me just want everybody's equipment to function properly.

[dragoncarver]

hi mwildes

i have had all those problems and more. now i have to replace the controller but i still have the same machine as something gets fixed it does not break again. i know this is late coming but i have not been on in awhile and was searching for something and came across your post. if it was a bullet proof machine i could not afford it. i hope you have by now resolved all your issues i never at any time went threw sears judging by your join date your machine is older than mine and most of my problems began at 100 hours.

[2upchuck]

when i got my machine the driver started rolling the box ender over end and i was like WOE WOE WOE.....dude ill get it.......
Knock on real wood its been fine but I'm still weary everytime I fire it up. Ive seen here how much can go wrong.

Chuck

[2upchuck]

:rolleyes:i guess concerned would be a better word than weary lol

[twinpeaksenterprises, LLC]

Yes yes yes! shipping.! Shipping is terrible. I have ordered probably 20 plus things over the last few years and cant recall one that i have not had a problem with... All because of poor shipping procedures. I mean i dont think its possible to get any kind machine without at the minimum a bunch of scratches on it, but more likely smashed beyond repair. I dont know how these companies make any money when all there eqipment gets destroyed during shipping. Then there like well we will ship another.. WOW! I am severely reluctant to send my machine to Texas and back for repair.. Send me the part i'll fix it. With proper instructions and a little forum help, i usually get er' done. The machines are relatively easy to fix and im no mechanic. Good luck with your issue. And as another gentleman said. Push Sears all the way to corporate and make a resolution happen. Worked for me.