I just realized this!

[Cmdr.Rav]

I have mentioned I was thinking about selling my CC, due to recently buying a new K2 table top CNC. I realized after reading the lastest Vector Art news letter all the patterns I bought for my CC would be lost and I would need to buy them again!

I noticed some have offered to sell their patterns with their machines. But I don't think that is legal or ethical? I remember when I bought them I had to agree not to resale or give away the patterns and when purchased it was personal use.

So even though I do have other CNC resources, I think I better keep my CC I have a lot invested in patterns. So I will keep the CC until I have a request for a pattern I have for the CC and buy another in stl format!

Something I thought I would share if somebody else finds theirself in my shoes!

Rav

[DocWheeler]

Thanks Rav, I'm not sure what you could do in that case. It would seem that the patterns could be sold as long as you did not keep a copy.

[eromran]

It seems like they would let you tranfer your patterns over to new machine seeing they would know you would be buying more.

[Cmdr.Rav]

Doc, well that was the case when I bought the patterns directly from Vector Art 3D. I have not bought a pattern from the CW store so I am not sure if the policy has changed? I have also bought some patterns from Carve Buddy so I am not sure what his policy is?

I don't know, shoot other then little use I guess it wouldn't hurt keeping my CC. It's paid for, well it was a fleeing thought. Maybe somebody else can give a clear answer, hopefully James Booth or Michael Tyler will give us the answer?


Rav

[Cmdr.Rav]

Ed, I will for sure buy more patterns I used the other ones quite a bit. That's why I even thought of it. Then again Vector Art 3D and other pattern makers needs protection for their products, otherwise we would be able to share or sell our patterns over and over!

Rav

[Cmdr.Rav]

Doc, Ed this got the wheels spinning in my head so I went to Vector Art 3D site and re-read the license agreement. Here it is,

License Agreement

Vector Art 3D, Inc. grants you a non-exclusive limited license to use the computer models as decorative or illustrative material that is included as part of or all of a computer model, CNC carved design or a part grown on rapid prototyping equipment (rendered in any substrates), produced for you, your employer, or a client, that is not for resale or redistribution as art for reproduction or as any form of stock design. You may not use any of the models in whole or in part, for multiple resales in the form of molded parts, castings or other mass production methods etc., without the express written permission of Vector Art 3D, Inc.

Models of national or organizational insignia are protected by various laws against misuse. Typically, all logos, insignia, seals, flags etc. are for official use only. It is your responsibility to obey all laws regulating the production and display of these.

It is against the law to copy, reproduce, or transmit (including, without limitation, electronic transmission over any network) any part of the website or part or whole of any of the computer models except as permitted by the Copyright Act of the United States. Under the law, copying includes translating into another language or format. You many not under any conditions copy original or altered computer models or images to sell or distribute to others or operate the models on more than one computer at a time. Vector Art 3D, Inc. grants you this license for a single CPU (central processing unit) only. The purchase or use of Vector Art 3D computer models does not, in any way, transfer ownership or rights to contents, in whole or in part, to you.


I was correct so with all my patterns I can't sell my patterns or give them away. Good to know for future members wanting to sell their machines. The patterns you bought are your patterns!

Rav

[fwharris]

Rav,

Could you not get permission from Vector Art 3D to transfere ownership?

[hotpop]

Rav,

Perhaps you can put them in your will and they'll be worth something some day.:p

[HighTechOkie]

The point they are getting at with their license is you can not sell or give away copies. This language is in almost ALL software licenses. You can sell them with you machine so long as you do not keep a copy of any of the patterns. I'm sure if you talk with James at VectorArt3D, he would clarify this for you. The main intent is to deter people from selling VA3D's artwork without any compensation to VA3D. You are not selling the patterns you bought, only transferring your license to use those patterns.

The other way around this would be to do up an assignment of license. All contracts are assignable unless they explicitly state they are not assignable. Since you only purchased lifetime license for the pattern, you can assign your rights under the license to the new owner of your CW/CC.

Standard CMA (Cover My Arse) clause:
I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice. The views and opinions are just that and should not be taken as fact or law. Always consult with a qualified law professional.

Rob

[Cmdr.Rav]

Rob, I too am not an attorney, but transfer is basically giving away the patterns. I could see your point if the patterns came with the machine. Yet they didn't I have BobCad software and I can sell or give it away but without a license it is not usable. But BobCad will sell a new license to the new owner.

With Vector Art this is a different case, I could post in the forum right now a pattern I bought and everyone can download it without any trouble or any recourse from Vector Art. However they could have recourse against me for allowing it to be shared. Other software has one registration number for it's license and can be tracked. With the VA patterns are not so easy to keep track of. So really I could say I transfered my license to you and still keep using it as long as I never lost the pattern.

I did log in to Vector Art and I know now if I had a computer crash I can download all the patterns I purchased. Perhaps that could be transfered, but what's there to protect VA? We could buy a pattern and continue to transfer license to each other and if needed we could keep doing this if the pattern was lost.


Mel, I know it seems silly to you, but it is a concern to me and I like to do the right thing! Other then that I did enjoy your joke!!!!


Rav

[Cmdr.Rav]

Another interesting subject, I hoped those who makes our patterns would clear this topic up for us!

Rav

[oldjoe]

Wouldn't the same copywrite laws that govern music, and movies apply. You can buy a CD and burn copies for yourself because you bought it but if you give a copy to someone else you are breaking the law. The music industry and the artist are not getting paid what they deserve when this is done.
Just my thoughts

[Cmdr.Rav]

Joe, that is true, but does it make it right? A good example of how this could go. A person could buy all the patterns anyone is selling, make a copy and turn around and sell them for a discount. Or even buy them directly and under cut the makers. This is not legal so then how is it any different one person selling their machine and letting the patterns go with them.


If you stole a CD or the player from the store, it still is theft either way! Anyway I enjoy these discussion other then reading about what error is causing a member problems!


Rav

[twinpeaksenterprises, LLC]

I agree with what someone else had mentioned in the discussion. If you buy the pattern then you could sell it if you only sold that one copy and did not keep it. Just depends on how technical you get on the subject.

Case in point: If a guy comes to my shop and says hey i want to buy that piece of wood scrap for 5 dollars cash. Okay now if i keep the cash and at the end of the year fail to report it then its tax evasion.

I think it all boils down to an ethics issue. Will some people be unethical in their dealings? sure. But I like to think the majority of people are going to do what they consider the right thing.

[oldjoe]

I have to agree with Twinpeak it is a matter of personal ethics. But here maybe a different angle what about people that own scanners are they not taking someone elses hard work and making it possible to copy them?

[Cmdr.Rav]

Good thing the laws are not judged on personal ethics. To me it is black and white as I post the agreement with Vector Art it never mentioned it's ok to sell or give away if you feel ok about it!!

Back to my original concern I will consider it a loss for these patterns if and when I sell my CC. I guess that is why our prisons are full, instead of following what the law states, they allowed their personal ethics to guide them! Oh I know you will say you bought them and it should be yours to do as you please.

I can get a prescription for pain pills from my Dr. It doesn't mean because they are mine I can sell or give them away! Or because I can buy beer doesn't mean I can give or sell it to minors!

Just my 2 cents!

Rav