Cut Motor 101

[Digitalwoodshop]

Just a reminder that above 150 hours of Cut Motor time and you should be thinking about getting replacement brushes before they wear down too short and damage the commutator.

Talked to someone today that said he asked LHR for brushes and they said they did not sell them. Not sure about that but a few months ago I bought some for $5.00 each getting 2.

Here are some pictures of the brushes and the 2 kinds of motor magnets just for the new guys.

I know there was a shortage of cut motors and have not talked to LHR about it in a while.

Symptoms of brushes too short are a non starting cut motor or sounds like it is hesitating upon start up and running.

Brushes are a consumable, like car tires they don't last for ever.


AL

[Bill]

hi AL,

You say you Talked to someone today that said he asked LHR for brushes and they said they did not sell them.

I am assuming you had purchased your from LHR or did you get them else wear?

Thanks
Bill.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I got my brushes from LHR a few months ago. I don't know who he talked to at LHR but we traded PM's about Cut Motor problems he was having. They asked him to tear down his cut motor and take pictures of the magnet and send it to them. I thought this was strange, so I posted the pictures as a refresher to the 2 style of magnets that I know about.

I did not want to get in the middle of the customer and LHR but thought the pictures could be useful.

AL

[Bill]

I was just wondering I am about to need new brushes and if LHR did not carry them any more I'd have to start looking around for some.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I think he just got a new guy on the job and he asked for pictures.... Let's let this go until tomorrow and I will call LHR as I need some parts anyway...... Looks like a standard brush...

I just grabbed a new brush and measured it.

12.0 mm wide 0.473 in

6.0 mm thick 0.236 in

12.2 mm long 0.478 in

The copper cap on the end of the spring is 12.0 mm x 6.0 mm.

I did a search on line and found the 6 mm x 13 mm to be common. A little sand paper would fix you up.... If you had to go that route. 8 for $50.00 is a little steep.

AL

[TerryT]

Al,
I talked to a girl in sales. She could not find them in her computer so she asked one of the engineers. The said they did not sell brush kits. I was told she would do some more checking and call back. As you might guess they didn't. So I called again and talked to the same girl. She said they would get me fixed up. She had to wait to get a part number in the computer and prices then she will call back.

The pictures were for Ralph in repair. He thought it was the speed sensor, then changed his mind and thought it may be bearings so he wanted a picture of the inside of the cut motor (?).

[David Myers]

I had the same problem with a router from Sears . The router was less than 2 years old and I needed a brush for the motor, Sears parts department told me it was no longer available yet they were still selling the router in their stores.
So I removed the brush from the router and went to my local ACE hardware and they have a good supply of various brushes. I found one that was close to the same size and used a file to shape it to fit and the router is back up and running.
So if you can't get some thing from LHR soon, try your local ACE hardware.

David

[forqnc]

Al, another nice post. I have seen these pictures before, but since I was under warranty and a newbie back then, I did not pay to much attention to it. Now, I just passed the 100 hr mark and out of warranty, and was wondering could you explain a little more about what this picture is.
Is it heat shrink to hold the magnet on the end of the shaft (old style)?

[TerryT]

OK, I just got a call from LHR. They are ready to sell brushes. They are mailing out two brushes for $9.98. I will take the pictures while I have the cut motor out just in case Ralph was right about it being bearings or something if the new brushes don't fix the problem.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Back when CCM was 25% of the daily posts I found that the magnet held on the shaft by shrink tube was used for the measurement of the motor speed in a closed loop speed mode. Closed loop uses the computer to monitor the motor speed and using a PWM or Pulse Width Modulator, control the motor speed. The big V90 hogging down in wood slowing the motor is compensated by the PWM to keep the power up. Open loop is a backup mode with the motor just running blind at full speed.

When the magnet was flung from the motor the magnet was not sending pulses to the computer so you would get the famous CCM or Check Cut Motor Error. Hit enter and off it went but now in full speed mode. I believe the motor operates about 75% speed with the magnet. Somehow in all this the Spindle formerly had a speed detector in there also and I am not sure how it played in this. It could simply have checked if the spindle moved after changing a bit the spindle would spin for a few seconds. It's gone now with the New Z Bundle.

SO.... I found my magnet in the grease and used some yellow shrink wrap to put it back... That lasted about a week.... Then I ordered a motor and saw the new round magnet. That took care of the CCM problem and you rarely see it posted today. There are still some old style magnets out there that mainly cause CCM errors. The motor problems with running are brush related... The bearings in this motor I predict will last 5 sets of brushes.

They were installing the new magnet for $5.00 each, I sent 2 motors in for them.

Curious to see pictures of the brushes from the units having brush problems.

I predict that Brush problems will dominate the forum over the next few months as the machines get 150 plus hours and the great confusion over what is really happening is posted as:

"I went to the machine and found the machine stopped and the bit broken"

"I had a XXX Error code and the machine stopped"

"I had a X Axis Error"

"I had a Y Axis Error"

"I had a Z Axis Error"

All this because the motor stopped or hesitated while cutting due to short (length) brushes. A non spinning bit will cause the above errors... The price of one 1/8 inch cutting bit will cost how many sets of brushes.....? Wait and break the bit and still need to replace the brushes plus the cost of WOOD.... That is why they call it "Preventive Maintenance".....

2 of my 8 years with Sony was maintaining the equipment on the factory floor..... Doing mostly Preventive Maintenance...

AL


Just talked to Lisa in Parts and the Cut Motors are not available but the brushes are. So Preventive Maintenance is much more important for you Cut Motor if you want to keep happy carving..... Or waiting for the Replacement Damaged Motor.... Operator Error damaged motor.... Failure to do preventive maintenance......

A flat tire cost X amount of dollars... Driving on a Flat Tire damaging the $250.00 Aluminum Wheel and you get to buy both.... Pay me now or pay me MORE later.....


Stepping from the SOAP BOX and going to Lunch....... Lecture over.... Carry On, At Ease.... Dissimissed... Got That.... Snicker..... :) And for my Navy Buddies.... "Post".

[forqnc]

Thanks for the explanation Al

[ChrisAlb]

You know buddy, I never even thought about brushes...lol Better go check them.

THANKS!

[Digitalwoodshop]

Another of my Ranting post fueled by paint fumes.... Snicker.... Next winter I will have a Paint Drying room..... Not be using the Laser Shop.....

Glad you guys liked my ranting... The more we know about the machine the more fun we can have carving and not waiting for the UPS guy.

AL

[fwharris]

Another of my Ranting post fueled by paint fumes.... Snicker.... Next winter I will have a Paint Drying room..... Not be using the Laser Shop.....

Glad you guys liked my ranting... The more we know about the machine the more fun we can have carving and not waiting for the UPS guy.

AL

Yeh Al,

The lacquer makes you quaker!!!

It is always grate to see one of your rantings! We could put together a good CW manual with them. I know I have started mine.

Thanks again.

[TerryT]

I think Al could write a repair manual for the Carvewright. Hmm.....

[Digitalwoodshop]

If I only had the time..... I am about 3 weeks behind in my business.... My latest project is Fire Dept Accountability tags, reflective property stickers, and clocks and signs. If I ever get time to replace my bad mirror in my laser engraver I will make custom spray paint stencils for the Fire and EMS neighbors. Especially helpful to get back the Back Boards when the patience fly in the helicopter.

I hooked up with a local Fire Equipment supplier www.signal1fire.com to sell my stuff.

I think all my "Anatomy of xx" should be made into a Sticky so they don't disappear down the line.... Would be a great resource area to read since we get more NEW readers daily.

Thanks,

AL

I messes up the phone number on the Signal 1 and used her home phone.... Oops !!!! The colors of the tags = qualifications, Green trained to enter a burning building.

[AskBud]

Here is the PDF on Cut Motor 101.
AskBud

[fwharris]

Just got off the phone with support and they wil be sending me a new motor. I found that the retainer for the maginet was basiclly gone. Thanks Al for cut motor 101!

Discovered this while doing a complete clean after doing an Corian carve. You would not believe where all of the dust was packed into!! Wish I took pictures of that also.
You can see some on the motor impeller. Real nice fine coating. The loser case for the motor had it packed clear to the top of the reccessed areas on the case. Very little wood dust at all.

Since Al had posted the info on the cut motor and I had the top cover off any way, I decided to go one step further and check the brushes. I also had been getting the old "check cut motor" prompt at the start of my carves, so wanted to see if this was the real root cause.

The last picture is all that was left of the old retainer.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Good Job on finding your problem. Just heat shrink holding the magnet that stretches and lets go. The round plastic magnet solves that problem.

AL

[fwharris]

Never did find the magnet?

[Digitalwoodshop]

Was stuck in the grease like I found my magnet.... The grease from over lubrication I believe.... Cleaned the Fling Box out.

AL

[fwharris]

Al,

I will look a little more to see if I can find it.

2 questions:

Can I just buy the new plastic magnet to install on old motor shaft? Point being I would have a back up motor.

Would I be ok to carve with this motor until my new one gets here?
Since it had been carving ok with the exception of the CCM msg.

[fwharris]

Just an update on my cut motor. I did find the magnet. As Al stated it was in the goop in the Fling box. New motor got here today along with a new rpm module. I also called LHR and was able to order the new plastic magnet retainer. $5.00 + $12.00 shipping + $40.00 core charge for not sending old motor back and I now have a back up motor. New motor is $72.00 plus shipping.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I bumped this to the top along with the CCM Fix for education of the new users.

AL

[skeeterman]

I found a round magnet that looks like a watch battery on my bit tip locating plate. did not know where it came from, but i have noticed that my rpms start out at one speed for about 3 or 4 minutes then it goes full throttle the rest of the carve . what now??????
steve

[Amonaug]

I found a round magnet that looks like a watch battery on my bit tip locating plate. did not know where it came from, but i have noticed that my rpms start out at one speed for about 3 or 4 minutes then it goes full throttle the rest of the carve . what now??????
steve

That magnet is probably from the bit holder case that your bits are in if you got the case from LHR. Nothing to worry about, it's not part of the CW.

[skeeterman]

Now that you mentioned that it does look like one of them magnates.

[fwharris]

I bumped this to the top along with the CCM Fix for education of the new users.

AL

Al,

Great idea ;) and great '"read" as well. ! I know everything I learned about it came from you! Could we have a requirement for usage that all new users have to check of on reading from the early to middle 2007. A whole lot of info on the guts and workings of the CW/CC.

Will put some of it to use tomorrow when I swap my motors out. Last 2 center line carves I got the "check cut motor" msg. Will put in my re built motor (swap out circuit card for RPM sensor) and check out what is up with the other.

Hoping it is just going to be the brushes. Got spare ones on hand. I think my hours are about 150 now.

Happy Reading!