Adjustable Sled ... with Wingscrews?

[RayB]

My new CC is still in transit ... so I guess you could call me a pre-noobie.

Anyway, just for fun I thought I would take a shot at an adjustable carving sled, while I wait. I started with a 1x12 poplar board, and first cut a 42" long sled base. Using more of the 1x12 poplar, I then cut two 8" wide end filler boards. In one end of the base I put in two pair of threaded inserts, and in the other a pair of T-tracks (12" long).

Here is my question ... which I have not seen addressed in any other thread. Can I safely use wing screws to secure the end boards, since there will be 6" of end board between the wingscrews and the edge of the project board? I have purchased some other bolts that would tighten below the top surface if that is necessary. I just thought that the wingscrews would be easier use ... it they would work.

Let me know what you think ... and feel free to give any additional criticism. I can take it! ;)

[Amonaug]

Pretty sure the entire sled needs to be able to go under the rollers thus you'll need recessed bolts.

[J_Man]

I would say no because it pulls the whole board in to measure it, not just the part you plan to cut. You technically could use the wing nuts if you drop them below the surface so that nothing will hit the rollers. It would require a large router cut and probably you'll have to stick tape over the area every useage.

[optionman]

i sure you'll hear from more experienced people than me, but i don't think the rollers are going to like it when they hit the butterfly/posts. i suggest u put a width-wide groove in your end pieces 3.5 inches from the middle opening that the rollers will sense as the end of the end-pieces and not continue on to hit the butterfly/posts.

[DocWheeler]

Ray,

Welcome!

Nice work, and some nice wood. You will have a problem with the design and will have to countersink any parts that stick up since they have to pass under the rollers. Not sure you will have enough material for the wing-nuts.

Anyway, it is good to get some things done beforehand.

Edit, I must be a slow typist!

[RayB]

Thanks for all the replies. In the half hour since my original post the UPS guy delivered the CC, and I was busy unboxing. I just wasn't sure if the CC always wanted to measure the whole board before starting a cut. I noticed that other members have mentioned starting a job by centering the project board under the cutting head, so I thought that there might be a way to set things up to avoid the board measuring routine.

I suppose I will just scrap the wingscrew idea a go with the recessed hex cap bolts. I will have to see if I can figure out a way to still use the T-slots.
:)

[optionman]

as much as some of us would like a measuring over-ride, it doesn't exist. the machine will ALWAYS measure everytime u load a project.

not sure how the t-slots work, but if u can put something into the slot behind the end-pieces that keep them in place without going above the project board, u should be ok. i just use small pieces of double-sided carpet tape to secure the end-pieces and/or project board and that works great. and its cheap

[RayB]

O.K. All the wings are gone, and I was able to successfully use the T-tracks by simply using hex bolts with their heads in the slot. Now I can adjust that end by just loosening the nuts, sliding the board to fit the project, and re-tightening the nuts. The fixed end board can be repositioned by using another pair of threaded inserts, so I am hoping "that one sled fits all".
:D

[optionman]

put the t-tracks on both sides and your perfect. i'll take one, how much?

[RayB]

put the t-tracks on both sides and your perfect. i'll take one, how much?Unfortunately, the store where I found the tracks only had this one pair of 12" tracks. I think if I were to redo this project, though, I would have tracks the entire length of the sled. For now, I will just see how this one works out. As to the purchase price, how does $495 sound? ;)

[swhitney]

check Rockler, and also woodpeck.com for track material, as well as items which fit into the tracks. Your idea has gotten me thinking, and tomorrow I will be in the shop attempting to put your idea(s) and mine together to produce the ultimate sled???

by the way, welcome to the wonderful world of CW (or CC) !!!

[RayB]

While out walking, I had one more idea concerning a sled. Has anyone tried cutting grooves in the end boards to see if the CC software could be fooled into thinking that was the end of the board? I may experiment with that tomorrow. Here is a mock up of what I envision. If it works, I see no reason why I couldn't bring my wingscrews back!
:)

[AskBud]

I have several occasions where the machine ejected the board on its own. Wing Nuts would destroy the rollers, if nothing else. Your channel should accept a square nut that a recessed Allen Head bolt could attach to.
Why invite trouble?
AskBud

[TIMCOSBY]

run a t slot with a router instead of using the metal slots. you don't have to snug the bolts down that tight for it to stay together the pressure rollers will do most of the work. i have run 2 boards on top of each other with no tape or glue and they stayed together fine.

[hotpop]

RayB,

I'm not positive but I think I read somewhere that you can put a piece of black tape across your board trick the sensor into thinking that it's at the end of the board.

[DocWheeler]

Mel,

As the software and machine mature, upgrades get made that we are not aware of. This is an example - I think that originally the sensor was the only thing used when finding the board ends but now the firmware seems to not look for an end until after a roller signals that it is uncompressed.

Now the machine can move the material quickly and only slow to find the end after the signal from the rollers.

At least that is how I understand it!

[RayB]

Well, the reply from Bud regarding his spontaneous board ejections convinced me ... no more thoughts of wingscrews. As he put it, there is no point in tempting fate.
;)

[RayB]

After giving up on the wingscrew idea, I returned to making an adjustable carving sled with embedded bolts. I now have several sets of end boards with common thicknesses (like 3/4", 5/8", etc.), and just use a little double-stick carpet tape on their inside edges to keep project board from slipping in the y-direction.

I have had great success with a variety of board sizes, always clamping the project to line up with the bottom edge of the sled (see photo). I guess I don't understand why either rails, or filler boards are often suggested.

:)

[bjbethke]

I think the only time you would need rails is if you are carving completly accross your board. The rollers would drop into the carving.

[bizbiki]

The sled design looks great and not to mention will not cause you to waste 7 inches of stock on each carve. Question when laying out the project on the designer you would not "center on width" when prompeted. Or could you simply place the piece to be carved on center?

[bjbethke]

If both end peaces were the same width, you would still use “Center on Width”. The CW will only measure the carving and your end peaces for the length. The width would be the width of your carving board.

I use a sled like that worhs great.

[RayB]

The sled design looks great and not to mention will not cause you to waste 7 inches of stock on each carve. Question when laying out the project on the designer you would not "center on width" when prompeted. Or could you simply place the piece to be carved on center?I'm not sure I understand the question. When in Designer I use the actual project board size. When at the CC, because the two end boards are the same width (4"), I always respond "center" when prompted, and "not to stay under the rollers". The machine measures the width of my project board, and the total length of the project board plus the two end boards. So I never do any special calculations. If I want edge routing, I just do it separately after taking the project off of the sled.

Hope that helps.
:)

[DTOUR]

Excellant Idea! Can you provide the source for the tracks? Any details?
Looks like a sweet project while I still await the delivery of my CW.

John

[AskBud]

Excellant Idea! Can you provide the source for the tracks? Any details?
Looks like a sweet project while I still await the delivery of my CW.
John
.........

They are called "T Track".
Here is one link.
http://woodcraft.com/search/search.aspx?query=t+track
AskBud

[DTOUR]

They are called "T Track".
Here is one link.
http://woodcraft.com/search/search.aspx?query=t+track
AskBud


WOW - talk about a fast response ! Thanks Bud!

John

[RayB]

Excellent Idea! Can you provide the source for the tracks? Any details?As I mentioned in another thread ... if I were re-making that sled, I would put T-tracks along the entire length. On my current sled I simply glued the tracks in place with epoxy.

Hope that helps.
:)

[usd5000000]

BJ and Ray,

I'm really still dumb in CW knowledge since I finally turned on my machine last week after a year+, but I think I understand how to design a sled now. I'd to clarify things and make a suggestion:

1. To minimize y-movement why don't you rout a shallow channel down the middle and screw a hardwood or HDPE strip on your end pieces to act as runners.

2. I thought the sled has to be consistent height all the way across. I guess I was wrong. That was probably the reason folks used filler boards. I'm guessing that the board sensor can detect the edge of the board with only the 1/2" distance from the top of the board to the sled top. I'm guessing it might have some problems with really thin material and a light colored sled.

3. So... that means I only need to have a fixed end as in BJ's sled design --correct? Why does Ray have moveable ends on both sides?

4. Why again do I choose to NOT "stay under rollers"?

5. Do you use double stick tape to secure your board to the sled? If so, did you plane your end pieces to include this extra thickness?

6. LG looks like he uses melamine, but it seems like it would be too slippery. I think he said he scores the bottom -- how? I was going to use 1/2" ply as the base.

7. When measuring the width it looks like the machine will not measure the end pieces. I think I saw it try to measure across the center - correct?

BTW, thanks to everyone, as usual, this is a great community.

Here's what I think I'm going to build... Please make suggestions:

1. Base: 1/2" ply 14" x 36"
2. End pieces: 4" x 14" x multiple thickness
3. End pieces fixed on one end, but removable to change for different thicknesses.
4. 2 T-tracks all down the length (probably the 1/4"x20 size size so I can bury the head of the bolt. I have Rockler track, but it's bigger.
5. a runner on my moveable end piece to minimize y-movement.
6. Pick center on width and not to stay under rollers.

Thanks,
Jeff

[zeke]

I built this sled a little over a year ago and scanning was perfect on it. Have a look at the picture. If I were to modify this to make it easier to adjust, I would have incorporated horizontal notches along the vertical slots so the conveyor board would rest on these notches.

Zeke

[Rocky]

A few months ago, I built a sled similar to Ray's sled. Generally, it works 'ok'. However, my sled, like Ray's, has recessed metal parts (like screws, nuts, etc.) that can damage a bit if the sled does not track properly (e.g, sled slips when measuring board). This happened to me on a project; the carving bit started to carve into the end of the sled, just missing the metal. Fortunately I was nearby and stopped the CW immediately.

[bjbethke]

BJ and Ray,

I'm really still dumb in CW knowledge since I finally turned on my machine last week after a year+, but I think I understand how to design a sled now. I'd to clarify things and make a suggestion:

1. To minimize y-movement why don't you rout a shallow channel down the middle and screw a hardwood or HDPE strip on your end pieces to act as runners.

2. I thought the sled has to be consistent height all the way across. I guess I was wrong. That was probably the reason folks used filler boards. I'm guessing that the board sensor can detect the edge of the board with only the 1/2" distance from the top of the board to the sled top. I'm guessing it might have some problems with really thin material and a light colored sled.

3. So... that means I only need to have a fixed end as in BJ's sled design --correct? Why does Ray have moveable ends on both sides?

4. Why again do I choose to NOT "stay under rollers"?

5. Do you use double stick tape to secure your board to the sled? If so, did you plane your end pieces to include this extra thickness?

6. LG looks like he uses melamine, but it seems like it would be too slippery. I think he said he scores the bottom -- how? I was going to use 1/2" ply as the base.

7. When measuring the width it looks like the machine will not measure the end pieces. I think I saw it try to measure across the center - correct?

BTW, thanks to everyone, as usual, this is a great community.

Here's what I think I'm going to build... Please make suggestions:

1. Base: 1/2" ply 14" x 36"
2. End pieces: 4" x 14" x multiple thickness
3. End pieces fixed on one end, but removable to change for different thicknesses.
4. 2 T-tracks all down the length (probably the 1/4"x20 size size so I can bury the head of the bolt. I have Rockler track, but it's bigger.
5. a runner on my moveable end piece to minimize y-movement.
6. Pick center on width and not to stay under rollers.

Thanks,
Jeff
The Apr08 CarveWright Tips&Tricks has a lot of information on the use of Sleds.



http://www.carvewright.com/downloads/tips/CarveWrightTips&Tricks_Apr08.pdf

[usd5000000]

Hello Rocky,

Thanks for the heads up regarding the screws. I'll use brass screws. This way it will be carbide cutter friendly.

BJ - I have the tips and tricks, but it seemed to have contradictory designs. There was a lot of talk about fillers and then I saw your fixed-end design and was confused. Now that I've actually seen the machine in action I know that I don't need any fillers. Just end pieces.

So I'm going to fix one end with brass screws and the other end will be moveable on t-track. I'll have different thinkness end pieces made probably of poplar.

I wanted to use 1/2" ply for the base, but I realized that I probably need to use 3/4" since I'm going to embed the t-track.

BR,
Jeff

[AskBud]

Hello Rocky,

Thanks for the heads up regarding the screws. I'll use brass screws. This way it will be carbide cutter friendly.

BJ - I have the tips and tricks, but it seemed to have contradictory designs. There was a lot of talk about fillers and then I saw your fixed-end design and was confused. Now that I've actually seen the machine in action I know that I don't need any fillers. Just end pieces.

So I'm going to fix one end with brass screws and the other end will be moveable on t-track. I'll have different thinkness end pieces made probably of poplar.

I wanted to use 1/2" ply for the base, but I realized that I probably need to use 3/4" since I'm going to embed the t-track.

BR,
Jeff

Be careful!

Others may have better insight by their own personal experience. However, I think that rails extending beyond the 3 1/2" end pieces will give you bad readings. As I understand the machine process, when the piece leaves the roller(s) it starts looking at the solid portion of the sled for the actual "end". If the roller has not released the unit may not know to change what it looks for.
AskBud