Project Sled or Carrier Board

[DrBob]

ok....need to straighten out some confusion...I have gone thru about 40 posts on sleds....and...everybody has a different plan...one says add the sled board and project board thickness together...others say don't....I am totally confused....as far as rail heights...whats the proper rail height for a sled...and...what is the height used for if it is higher than the project...does it need to be the height of the project?...or...can it be adjustable?...

[Rickrljones]

Sled with rails pertains to using a scanning proble, this allows for the project to stay under the roller. Using a sled to carve, has to be at the thickness so CC/CW can determind the board thickness. Hopes this helps

[DocWheeler]

Actually you can have side rails on a carving sled, they allow you to carve on an uneven top surface like one that has other carvings on it. Just remember to have the bits get the top-of-board from where you want it to.
Another advantage is that if the rails are higher than the carve surface, the saw-dust does not affect the rollers as much.

[DrBob]

ok you both contradicted each other.
????

Another advantage is that if the rails are higher than the carve surface, the saw-dust does not affect the rollers as much

Using a sled to carve, has to be at the thickness so CC/CW can determind the board thickness

[Digitalwoodshop]

I use a sled with sides the same height as the thickness of my work wood. That way the rollers hold the wood down or if you wish as I did only install a center work piece wood and add short scraps and wedges to block it in place.

I also use carrier boards just to hold 3 pieces of short wood together like a center work piece and scrap on each end for the under the rollers.

Good Luck,

We aim to Confuse U :) :) :)..... Just kidding.

AL

Photo 1 is a Sled but the sides are even with the work wood. The advantage of this is I can cut 5 rails at a time or just put in 1 and blocking to hold it in place and masking tape to fool the board detector. I use a bunch of Banister Stock. I will be making walking sticks soon from the baluster material called Pocono Mountain Trackers and will have that carved on it. I will then laser engrave animal foot prints on the shaft.

Photo 2 is a carrier board using scraps on each end of the good wood for the rollers.

If you don't do a cut path it looks at the board thickness as what is in designer but with a cut path or drill it checks the whole thickness. At least that is what it did in 1.120 but not sure now with the new board thickness check in 1.126....

[DocWheeler]

Bob,

One of the options you can set is to have you tell the machine to have you jog to the place the bit touches the "top-of-board", OR you can press Stop at the appropriate time and jog to the position.

I usually have my rails above the carve surface for the afore mentioned reason. You can use various means to assure that the board does not move on the sled.

[DrBob]

Hi Al
The tape on the board fools the senser every time?

[twehr]

I use a sled with sides the same height as the thickness of my work wood. That way the rollers hold the wood down or if you wish as I did only install a center work piece wood and add short scraps and wedges to block it in place.

90% of my work is on a sled. I work with 1 by X boards, for the most part (means they are actually about .75" thick). My sled has rails that are .825" high. That means I usually have about 1/8" clearance between my workpiece and the rollers. It also allows me to have variations in workpiece thickness without changing the rails.

My workpiece is always centered and I have sets of spacers for filling in gaps around it to hold it in place. The spacers on either end are held down with carpet tape and the top and bottom spacers are cut to fit, holding the workpiece securely.

Of course, this means I ALWAYS jog to a location point on the actual workpiece for finding surface.

If not doing edge routes (I always do them on the router table in stead) or cut paths, I can do even thinner materials on the same sled.

Overall, this really works well for me.

[DrBob]

Hi Ken
What about the board thickness, if my sled base is .75 do I add to the virtual board, yes, no, maybe, has been the responces?

[DrBob]

Hi twehr
Thanks
Also what is the min. side fill that would be used and why?

[DocWheeler]

Bob,

Sorry I didn't get online last evening. In Designer, tell it the total length and width of the sled, and the thickness from the top of your board to the bottom of the sled rather than the the height of the sled rails.

As twehr said, secure the carve-piece in the sled by wedging it tightly, taping it, or some other fasteners. By putting blocking all around the carve-piece, you don't have to worry about the sensor finding a "hole" rather than the sled-edges, otherwise you need to use paper or tape to cover low places.

You can usually get away with low areas around your carving of 1/4" or so without the sensor thinking it has found the "edge".

On the sled that I use a lot for smaller sarvings, I have two pieces of 1/8" X 3/4" X 18" strips that I tape to the edges of the sled to increase the "Rail height" if I need a little more room. I also cut my carve pieces to 5.75" X 8.75" for that sled and drive it into that sled with a rubber mallet.

I hope this helps rather than adding to the confusion.

[twehr]

Hi twehr
Thanks
Also what is the min. side fill that would be used and why?

I use 4" on each end if space allows. If the sled is too short to allow for this, then I just use a board 7+ inches longer than my Designer board length and don't use the sled. (I need to build some more sleds, with more length, to cover longer projects.)

BTW - my sled is heavy duty - 3/4" MDF with 3/4" rails. It never skips on the brass positioning roller and has worked perfectly from day one. I just have to work around it's minor limitations (cut paths, dust collection).

[DrBob]

Hi twehr
That is the end fills you are talking about I am talking about the side fills.

[DrBob]

Hi Ken
Why do I tell designer the sled demention and what if I dont?

[twehr]

Hi twehr
That is the end fills you are talking about I am talking about the side fills.

On the sides (top and bottom) I use whatever size is necessary to fill between the workpiece and the rails.

Example:

Sled is 21" long and 14.5" wide with 3/4" thick rails. So available work space is 21" x 13.0"
Project is 7.5" x 12"
End spacers are (21 - 12) / 2 = 4.5" each
Side spacers are (13 - 7.5) / 2 = 2.75" each
Designer dimensions = 14.5 (total width) x 12 (actual workpiece length) x .75 (or whatever the actual board thickness is).
Setup - everything is placed on my Designer, working from the center out.
Running Project - Center On Length, Do not cut to size, Keep Under Rollers


Obviously, on the above sled, I am limited to 14" in length (21 - 7 = 14). If I am going longer than that, I don't worry so much about the wasted 7" and go without the sled. (Except the Bubinga - that I save every inch or use the ends for small projects.)

Since I work mostly in set sizes (7.5 x 12, 9.25 x 12, 10.25 x 14, etc), I have a few sets of standard fillers, so it is easy to set up and run.

BTW - in the Designer, I start with the full width (14.5) and immediately add a rectangle path (centered both) the exact size of my actual workpiece. I make it a cut path (flip, hide), so I see only the finished/usable area. Just before uploading, I remove the cut path (leaving the non-cutting path of the rectangle for use later if I need to make other adjustments or edits). In Designer, I see everything as it will appear finished. On the CCW, it sees the 14.5" wide board with all cuts located near the center. For me - this is fast, accurate, and conservative.

Let me know if you need more explanation or photos.

[DrBob]

Ok I understand all that, here it comes BUT!!
what is the need or no need as to the side fills?, is it a carving space that is needed?, or saftey issue?
Why do I or don't tell designer the sled board thickness?

[twehr]

Ok I understand all that, here it comes BUT!!
what is the need or no need as to the side fills?, is it a carving space that is needed?, or saftey issue?
Why do I or don't tell designer the sled board thickness?

I use the fillers to hold the workplace in the correct position, without moving. I used to use carpet tape, which did a great job of holding. Sometimes, it held it too well, or made it difficult to remove the adhesive from the back of the project. This is just fast, easy, and ensures correct placement of the workpiece.

As to the board thickness question - unless you are doing cut paths, it doesn't really care. I have done both (.75 and 1.5 for a 1 by workpiece), and it really makes no difference. I do like seeing, in Designer, the final product thickness, though. It aides me in visual perspective and proportions.

One of the great things about this forum is that you can get lots of ideas - some work great for you, others do not. If you like the sound of my method, give it a try. Then modify it to work the best for you. (Then share it. I may want to change as well.)

[DrBob]

Thanks twehr
I have a project in the works, I will post the results when its completed.

[Dan-Woodman]

One thing about using --side boards-- is you can carve off the edge of your designer board project and still have the side edges to support the rollers keeping them compressed.
later Daniel

[twehr]

One thing about using --side boards-- is you can carve off the edge of your designer board project and still have the side edges to support the rollers keeping them compressed.
later Daniel

I do it so often (about 60% of the time) I forgot that you can't do that normally. Just tell it to ignore when it gives error warnings. (But most of the time you won't get the message, because it thinks your project is 14.5" wide, so it does not think you are cutting clear across the board.

[DrBob]

Still watching this thred!
all info is good.
Thanks

[DocWheeler]

Bob,

As you might have guessed, the difference between what twehr and I do is that I put the full sled size in designer and tell it Not to keep under the rollers.
twehr does it the other way, he uses the length minus 7" and tells it to KEEP it under the rollers so the machine moves an extra 3.5" to the start of the "carving".

I hope that this helps clear up any misunderstanding.

[DrBob]

It does, Thanks Ken

[thrilldog2]

Hi,

I am thinking about buying a carvewright, but I would first like to understand how I would cut out patterns from 1/4" thick wood & machinable plastic. I have been reading various post and would like to know if my idea is feasable.

I was thinking of using a 1/4" thick board by 12 inches wide and 24 inches long. Along both sides of the 24inch length of the board I would have a 1/4 inch thick by one inch wide by 24inch long strip secured by glue (or something) to hold down both of the side strips to the top of my work piece. I was thinking that this might fool the machine into thinking the thickness of the board is 1/2 inch (my 1/4in thick workpiece plus the 1/4" strip on top of my work piece). Since I will be making cutouts I can do a cutpath and it will cut my 1/4In thick work piece and leave the tabs to hold in the shapes. Am I correct in thinking I can do this like I describe above?

Will

[DocWheeler]

Will,

Welcome to the forum. It appears that you have grasped the ideas of what is necessary to have the machine function.
I believe that what you have described would work well. I'm not sure where you would need to have the machine find the surface - top-of-rails or the top of the 1/4" board. I'm not sure where the message is triggered about the material being too thin.

[HighTechOkie]

Will, the only step that you would change is the cut path. For all practical purposes, you can not use cut path with a sled. The machine will attempt to cut through the measured thickness of the sled + project material (regardless of board thickness set in Designer software.)

To cut out a design using a sled, there are two options:
1. Create an outline using the Outline tool.
Select Bit>1/8" straight,
a. Depth >= project material thickness (i.e. 0.25"). This will cut through the project material and probably cut into the sled. You MUST secure the material to the sled so the piece can not come loose during carving and cut out.
b. Depth < project material thickness (i.e. 0.22"). This will leave a thin sliver of material holding the cut piece to the scrap material and prevents the workpiece from coming loose. The workpiece can easily be broken free and the slivers trimmed with a knife or sander. Also the design could be cut/traced with a bandsaw using the marks cut by the CC.
2. Manually outline the design using lines, splines and arcs. Make sure 1/8" wide x 1/8" tall (or there abouts) tabs of material connecting the cut workpiece to the scrap. The tabs are easy to cut and sand. This is the safest method, but does require more time to layout project in Designer.

Rob

[DocWheeler]

Rob,

My understanding of what Will was doing was putting "rails" on his 1/4" carving so that the machine would handle it rather than your assumption that he was making a sled.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I have plans to cut some 1/8 inch plastic and thin material at some time. I was planning to make a sled and design it along the lines of what the Shop Bot guys use for a Vacuum Hold Down with different zones. Might even make special sleds so I could cut out name tag size plastic and have vacuum holes to hold down the loose name tags as you go with no worries of movement.

A vacuum switch could be wired in series with the left cover switch and if vacuum dropped the machine would shut off.

I could see RJustice making something from PVC and offering it to users.

Just dreaming....

AL

[HighTechOkie]

I guess I need to slow down when I read :). Just assumed since this was posted in the Project sled or carrier board thread that is was in reference using a sled to do his project.

While the approach of building up 1/4" material to 1/2" should work, you would loose 1"x24"x1/4" x 2 (0.33 board ft) on each project. Assuming 3.5" on each end and the 1" strips on each side, the project work area is 10" x 17" (1.18 bd. ft.). This works out to roughly 22% waste that could be prevented if using a sled. Just breaks down to: is it better to waste 22% material and have the CC do a cut path or spend the time to build a sled and secure the part to the sled or put tabs in the design manually.

Rob

[thrilldog2]

thanks for your help Ken & Rob,

I guess to be more specific I was talking about using 1"X24"X1/4"thick rails on each side of the work board to secured to the top of my 12"X24"X1/4" thick work board to fool the machine into thinking my work piece is 1/2" thick so that tabs would be left in my work piece while using the cutpath feature. For a beginner like myself it would be easier for me if this would work.

I aslo am interested in using a sled to save on scrap but I just don't see how I can keep the tabs and stop my patterns from flying around in the machine. Do you know how? I have 18 seperate pieces to cut out of my project board so with the tabs I am assuming the pieces will stay together and have less material for me to cut out.

Will

[thrilldog2]

Rob,

From reading below, I think you are saying in method C) I could make my cut out patterns include a tab 1/8inX1/8in in the actual pattern. therefoe I will be designing tabs into the pattern itself. So I am forcing the machine to cut the tabs i design. I think this method would save me finishing time and secure my mutiple patterns until the machine is done cutting all the patterns.

Thanks

Will

[HighTechOkie]

Yes, the tabs would be part of the design.

As for using a sled and cutting out, I use several pieces of carpet tape to hold the part and its scrap to the sled. The tape is about 1/16" so it does add a little to the overall height. I have to use a paint scraper to get under the project to pry it off the sled when done. I have also considered spray adhesive. Since my sled is a melamine shelf, I could wipe off the spray with paint thinner, and a light sand to the back of the piece.

If you are planing to do this project several times, it might be faster to use the CC to create templates that you could use with a handheld router for the cutouts.

I just thought of a couple other issues with your initial approach. As the head moves from keypad side to opposite side to measure the board, it detect the edges of your strips (height change) and incorrectly measure the board width. You would need a 1/4" thick strip that runs the width of the board as well so the machine "sees" a solid 1/2" thick material. There is also the extended carving time as the project would be designed for 1/2" thick material with the software thinking its carving through the top 1/4" (which would realy be air).

Your initial approach could work with a little planning. For the long term however, I would not recommend this as standard practice. I just feel there are more efficient methods to achieve the same result. That's just the industrial engineer in me trying to do things faster, better and cheaper.

Rob

[thrilldog2]

I will be cutting the same pattern out about 3000 times (if im lucky). I started out trying to use rapid prototyping but one unit would cost $500. A mold would cost over $5000. I figured that with the Carvewright I could cut patterns out and glue them together and if I didn't like something in the design I could easily change it without costing me a lot (only wood).

If I add a 1/4inch to the front of the board, would that be enough. It would be nice to know where does the machine do its intial measuring from?

I like your idea about cutting a pattern with the CC and using a hand router but I need to cut out a 1/4" thick X 1/4" wide and 4" long pattern and I am trying to be between .20 and .25 tolerance on the width. I have not done much woodworking at all with the exception of building decks and remodeling basements. But project where more accuracy is involved I am not sure how accuracy is possible with using the hand held router and a template. Do you think .20 to .25 inch width could be maintained with a hand held router using a template.

willis

[HighTechOkie]

Once the template is made to suite your needs, you place a flush trim bit in the hand router . There is a bearing on the flush bit that would follow the edge of the template. The cutting portion of the bit is the same diameter as the bearing resulting in an almost exact copy. Over time the edge of the template may wear away resulting in incorrect dimensions, but it would require a fair amount of use and abuse to be a problem. And when it does, run the template mpc on the CC to reproduce it :). Once the template is to the correct size, each piece would be darn close to the template size. Easily within 0.225"-0.25".

Rob

[thrilldog2]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the advice,

There seems to be an opportunity to reduce cost while making more units. As an engineer myself, I too appreciate efficiency.

I will make templates with the CC and make copies with a hand router.
If the accuracy is suitable, after cutting out my invention, I might be lucky enough to actually make a profit from start of production. lol

I have an invention that I wrote a patent for and I am trying to find the cheapest way to poduce my invention since I trying to turn a little bit of money into a lot of money.

I appreciate your advice.

Will

[dmhpilot]

I've followed this and other "sled" posts and successfully made a sled to hold my templete for scanning with a probe. It worked on the first try.

This sled is 14.5" x 30" x .75" with a 2.25" side rail.

I thought I could hot glue a project piece to this sled (6" x 6") and carve, but now I see that even with the sled, everyone is using the 3.5" side pieces to make the machine think it is 7" longer.

And, then I have two choices about designer: tell it the project is actually 6" x 6" and tell the CW Not to keep it under the rollers, OR tell designer that the piece is actually 6" + 7" = 13" long and tell the CW to KEEP it under the rollers. Is this correct? Or do I tell designer the true dimensions of the sled? And how do I force the CW to allow me to "Jog" to the starting corner? I don't seem to have this option when I start my project.

Point of confusion: do the 2.25" side pieces remain on the sled for carving, or is it best to have a sled with NO sides?

[fwharris]

I've followed this and other "sled" posts and successfully made a sled to hold my templete for scanning with a probe. It worked on the first try.

This sled is 14.5" x 30" x .75" with a 2.25" side rail.

I thought I could hot glue a project piece to this sled (6" x 6") and carve, but now I see that even with the sled, everyone is using the 3.5" side pieces to make the machine think it is 7" longer.

And, then I have two choices about designer: tell it the project is actually 6" x 6" and tell the CW Not to keep it under the rollers, OR tell designer that the piece is actually 6" + 7" = 13" long and tell the CW to KEEP it under the rollers. Is this correct? Or do I tell designer the true dimensions of the sled? And how do I force the CW to allow me to "Jog" to the starting corner? I don't seem to have this option when I start my project.

Point of confusion: do the 2.25" side pieces remain on the sled for carving, or is it best to have a sled with NO sides?

dmhpilot,

The scanning sled and carving sled are 2 different sleds. the scanning sled DOES have side rails and the carving sled DOES NOT (usually).

Most carving sleds are built to accomodate multiple sized projects.
The fillter boards 2", 3" or what ever size you need to fill up the sled are to make the CW think it is one solid board. The piece you are cutting is usually place at the center point of the sled and fillers place arount it.

The size of your sled should hold just about do any project you want.

Tell designer your acutal size (6x6) and "place project on center" to carve when asked after the CW measures your board. You do want to stay under the rollers.

Disclaimer to the above: I "as of the time" do not use a sled but have tried to read all of the different posts about them and hope that I do have the right concept down as I think it is just one more tool to have for the CW.....If any of the sled users find any errors with what I just said please let me know.......:cool:

[luckettg]

Having read through most of these msg threads about sleds (will do all before the day is done), it brings a question to mind. Where are sleds discussed, or taught about, for CNC carving machines? In other words, how did you all figure out where to start and how to go about it? Are there books, etc?
Thank you,
Greg Luckett
Michigan

[AskBud]

Having read through most of these msg threads about sleds (will do all before the day is done), it brings a question to mind. Where are sleds discussed, or taught about, for CNC carving machines? In other words, how did you all figure out where to start and how to go about it? Are there books, etc?
Thank you,
Greg Luckett
Michigan

Attached, is the help from CW site. There is also a video in carvebuddy.com
http://www.carvebuddy.com/learning_center.html
AskBud

[mtylerfl]

Having read through most of these msg threads about sleds (will do all before the day is done), it brings a question to mind. Where are sleds discussed, or taught about, for CNC carving machines? In other words, how did you all figure out where to start and how to go about it? Are there books, etc?
Thank you,
Greg Luckett
Michigan

Hello Greg,

The sled instructions and our video that AskBud so kindly provided (thank you Bud!) are specifically for the scanning probe (not carving, unfortunately).

As you have already mentioned, there is a lot of info regarding sleds here on the forum. I've been hoping that a couple of the "sled experts" would help us put together a well organized and fairly complete sled tutorial for possible inclusion in a future Tips & Tricks issue. I know we're all pretty busy though!

It's not really that tough to design a sled that will be appropriate for either general use or a specific project. Recently, I made a custom sled for carving the ends of pre-shaped 6" wide oak molding to look like linen folds on the ends. (Scanned the ends of a hand-carved sample to make a custom pattern for a man who has spent the last 20 years building a full size castle in Tennessee!)

It's a pretty simple sled. I just made a recessed "enclosure" for the molding to wedge tightly into so it's level with the flat top of the sled and won't move while the carve is taking place. Also I have to use masking tape criss-crossed in a "T" over the molding to the edges of the sled to get the machine to measure the piece properly before the starting the carve. I remove the tape just before the carve begins.

With just a little thought and an understanding of what the machine needs to keep it happy, you can easily build any number of sleds for your projects.

I hope we'll have a step-by-step tutorial someday for making at least a "general use" carving sled. The problem is, there are so many variations of projects, it's hard to imagine a "one size fits all" sled design.

[luckettg]

Thanks to AskBud for that pdf and the video link, and to Michael T. for the explaination. A scanning sled is one of the things I need.

The wide variety of sleds is probably one of the reasons I am having trouble getting my mind around this, plus I am still learning the CW and am fearful of damaging it by not building a sled correctly for carving.

Perhaps sled building is something passed on from person to person? I belong to the Berrien County Wood Workers Guild, which has about 25 members, both amatuer and pro members. Its purpose is to promote and educate folks about wood working. We get together once a month and share techniques. I will ask if anyone knows about sled building at the next meeting. Maybe there is even another CW owner in the group.:)
Greg Luckett

[AskBud]

My thoughts are: You only need a sled for scanning, or when the piece to be carved is too small for the machine to control.

An example would be carving a small, thin, name plate for your desk. Let's say it is 8" x 2". You would need to build a sled (jig) large enough for the machine, that will hold the material while it is carved. Sometimes this may be just using double sided tape (possibly carpet tape) and attaching the work piece to a larger board. On projects that have an uneven surface to start with (such as a toy that you, now, want to place a logo on the bottom), you need to find a better way to hold the work in place.
AskBud

[mtylerfl]

My thoughts are: You only need a sled for scanning, or when the piece to be carved is too small for the machine to control.

An example would be carving a small, thin, name plate for your desk. Let's say it is 8" x 2". You would need to build a sled (jig) large enough for the machine, that will hold the material while it is carved. Sometimes this may be just using double sided tape (possibly carpet tape) and attaching the work piece to a larger board. On projects that have an uneven surface to start with (such as a toy that you, now, want to place a logo on the bottom), you need to find a better way to hold the work in place.
AskBud

Hi Bud,

There are many, many reasons for using a sled (one reason is my example given above when you're carving on a piece that has an irregular shape and/or profile).

Another BIG reason is so that you can avoid the 7" waste on the ends of projects.

Still another reason (as you stated) is to carve on stock thinner than the minimum 1/2", and so on...

[liquidguitars]

My thoughts are: You only need a sled for scanning, or when the piece to be carved is too small for the machine to control.

Bud,

Sleds also work well for.. saving wood, indexing 2 sided projects, running parts of the same type and reducing vibration on said parts to name a few.

LG

[chips]

Question..... So if I'm carving a piece of wood or corian that is a 1/4" thick (and I'm using a 3/4" thick sled), when I'm in designer I have to set the board thickness to 1" ? Thanks for your help.

[liquidguitars]

I set the board the size of my sled not the part.

LG

[ChrisAlb]

Question..... So if I'm carving a piece of wood or corian that is a 1/4" thick (and I'm using a 3/4" thick sled), when I'm in designer I have to set the board thickness to 1" ? Thanks for your help.

Hey Chips,

From what I've learned the board "thickness" in Designer is only a visual aid for you. It doesn't matter to the CW since the CW jogs to and "finds" the surface of your stock before starting each project. I always use the manual jog so I can tell it "where to look" for the surface. I always set my board thickness the same as the stock I'm cutting just so I can visually see if I'm cutting through it or not depending on what I want.

Then, the thing is to make sure your depth of cut is set correctly. if you're using 1/4" thick stock and (not) cutting through then the depth of cut should be less than a 1/4".

Chris

[forqnc]

It finally warmed up in my shop enough for me to get to playing with the CW again.
I made a sled last night to hold 4” x 4” x 0.25” pieces of Lexan.
The board was cut 12” x 6”, in designer I took the same size board and placed a 4.125” x 4.125” x 0.25” Rectangular carved region, centered on the board. I ran this project through the CW.
Then on the same board in designer I imported my pattern, centered it on the board, then scaled it to fit the carve region. Then I deleted the Carve region.
On the sled I placed Double sided tape in the carve region, placed my Lexan on top, then for extra piece of mind taped around the edges of Lexan with Masking tape.
Because I am only carving a 4” section on a 12” board I said no to “Stay under Rollers” since it will stay under anyway.
This worked for me, now I only have to figure out Lighting and a Box to display them. :rolleyes:
I have another sled which I am going to put a 6” x 6” region for larger pieces.

[Kenm810]

forqnc,

Sounds pretty good to me,
I think a lot of folks find what works best for their own carving applications. http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

[forqnc]

Yeah Ken, I am trying to KISS for now. Having not carved for a while I am trying to hold myself back and not cause operator errors. :)

[Dirtydan]

Doc,

Here are a few of the Sled I've made... Hope this is what you wanted..

[AskBud]

Gunny,
Your site is fantastic.
AskBud

[Dirtydan]

Well thank you very much. :p:p;)
I"ll be updating is soon..... I hope...



Gunny,
Your site is fantastic.
AskBud