Measuring and Load Board Issues

[Ken Massingale]

I applied dark Walnut stain to a 36" by 8" by 1" piece of White Pine for a sign for a Tack Shop.
I had numerous issues:
-measuring the width it measured half of it
-measuring the length it couldn't find one end

the board had rough sawn edges, which I wanted to keep, so I ripped them off smooth. it then measured 3/4 of the actual width and gave a clear board sensor error. I cleaned the sensor and got the error again. I flipped the board end-for-end and finally it measured the width correctly.

Then it couldn't find one end of the board, so at this point I put wide masking tape on each end tried again.
Now it tells me to Load Board??

The stained pine seemed kinda waxy to the feel so for kicks I used an identical unstained board and had zero problems.

When it was completed I tried the stained board again and again had the same problems.

Is this freaking board cursed or what?:twisted:

Thanks:confused:

[Cmdr.Rav]

The stained pine seemed kinda waxy to the feel so for kicks I used an identical unstained board and had zero problems.


Ken, no disrespect, but you seem to have answered your own question! Maybe it would be better to carve an unstained board to avoid issues. Then stain it after, I realize you are trying to have unstained lettering. Sounds like the stain is still tacky so maybe you might want to wait a few days for the stain to dry and then try. Maybe then it won't feel waxy as you described?

Rav

[Dan-Woodman]

The board could be slipping on the board tracking sensor(The little brass wheel with the o-ring on it between the sanding belts toward the keypad side)
You might try some blue painters tape along the edge that rides on the roller.
later Daniel

[Kenm810]

Ken Massingale,

Qoute -- (gave a clear board sensor error. I cleaned the sensor and got the error again.
I flipped the board end-for-end and finally it measured the width correctly.
Then it couldn't find one end of the board, so at this point I put wide masking tape on each end tried again.
Now it tells me to Load Board??)

My Machine has done the same thing a few times recently,
In case it turned out to be of all things roller pressure.
Every (once and a while) 5 clicks of the Ratchet Handle was only giving 60 or 65 Lbs of pressure,
just enough to show that the rollers were engaged, but no enough to focus the board sensor or fine the end of the project board.
I really cann't say how often I wasted my time over this past year cleaning the board sensor,
when the problem was really caused by the lack of roller pressure. http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif --- I check it daily now.

[Cmdr.Rav]

:[QUOTE=Ken Massingale;44225]

The stained pine seemed kinda waxy to the feel so for kicks I used an identical unstained board and had zero problems.


I not sure if this was missed, but Ken writes he used an unstained board with zero problems. So I wouldn't think it had anything to do with the pressure of the rollers? It seems the problem to be how dark the stain is and maybe it still being wet. When it dries it may lighten up a bit? At least when it does dry blue masking tape can be applied.

Anyway maybe I am in left field but, the key to me is he used an unstained board and had no problems.:rolleyes:

Rav

[Kenm810]

Rav,

I did see and agree with you and Ken about the stained and unstained
identical boards.

Instead of (once and a while) I should have said occasionally
from board to board of the same size my roller pressure is not consistent.

And that it might be worth checking.

[Cmdr.Rav]

Sorry Ken, I wasn't trying to say your suggestion was not worthy. I have the back roller sticking occasionally and I need to make sure the pressure is ok. Not mention having trouble with crank itself.

Anyway sorry didn't mean it anyway disrepectly.

Rav

[Kenm810]

Rav,

No problem - No harm done,
Everyone is just trying to help a fellow carver

[Canute]

I recently stained a pine board with a dark stain. The machine would not properly measure the board. To force the machine to measure it I used tan masking tape across the area the board sensor travels in both the x (center of board) and y axis. Then I placed the board back in (making sure the tape lined up with the sensor) and the machine read the measurements properly and cut the project out fine. The contrast of the cut out letters was outstanding.
Canute

[Ken Massingale]

Thanks for all the help.
I thought the board was dry, it had been stained 18 hours and I couldn't see any stain when I wiped it with a white rag. But, it did feel less waxy last night.

I'll check the pressure on the rollers this morning, and I didn't think about taping the entire length along the edge.
k

[beachman]

The machine doesn't see really dark boards very well.try staining after the carve or tapeing the board with ligt colored masking tape.

[Gunner]

As per KENM, I have also had problems with ''load board '' error. Two identical boards but, only one with problem.
On page 8 of troubleshooting guide it states; ''In many cases the four vertical guide rods and lead screws on the machine will need to be greased to achieve the correct pressure.''
This has always solved my problem. A little grease goes a long way.

Gunner

[sweliver]

How does one set the proper roller pressure? I do the "5 click" thing.

I taped the edges, down the middle, ends and it fed from one end to the other and mis-measured and would only give me the choice of "scale to fit" or "load board". I finally went to options/measure and it read the correct length/width and proceded normally. So it makes me think it's not just roller pressure.

sw

[Canute]

How does one set the proper roller pressure? I do the "5 click" thing.

I taped the edges, down the middle, ends and it fed from one end to the other and mis-measured and would only give me the choice of "scale to fit" or "load board". I finally went to options/measure and it read the correct length/width and proceded normally. So it makes me think it's not just roller pressure.

sw

Make sure the tape goes across the board from edge to edge in both the width and lenght. It should measure the board right. I don't tape the edges other than where my tape goes from edge to edge is. My machine always measures the board aprox - 0.027 shorter in width and askes if I want to scale to width.
Canute

[Ken Massingale]

Well, problem is solved. After finding nothing on the machine that I could do to correct the issues, I ran the board through the drum sander and removed the stain from one side. After this it ran perfectly.
I tried the other side that still had the stain on and the problems returned. Through the drum sander that side went and removed the stain and the problems.
Thanks for all the suggestions, at least the machine got a good going-over!

[Woodrat]

Thanks a lot fellows. I just now ran into the same problem. sanded board and now its carving. Thanks again. Woodrat

[3DbME]

This is the first real frustration I have had with the machine after 20 hours.

I've read the threads, implemented all suggested actions and have been for 2 days till right now was experiencing the issue.

I even planed the boards, different varities, thicknesses, tape (Tan, White and BLUE / textured and not).

For some reason it just kicked in gear and I'm back in business. Maybe it was the grease on the gears or blood on the rollers from a sharp bit but it "just started". No more prompt for a new piece!!!

Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement.

3DbME

[Wilbur]

I had this happen to me today. The board was white pine and had been pained and felt slick.
I had done white pine before with out a problem but had not plained it.
Got the Load Piece board message and could not figure it out.
I read this thread and went back and applied a small amount of stain.
Everything working fine now.
Wilbur
Greenwood SC

[Wilbur]

I am having a very hard time figuring out why you need to add 7" to work peace.
It looks like if I put in for a project to be 10x10 and I put in a peace 12x12. Alien to center, there should be no problem getting the 10x10.
I have been adding 7" and staying under the rollers and the project comes out smaller than what I want.
Today I did another and did not stay under the rollers and the peace was larger.
This may be simple but for the life of me I can't see it. HELP

Wilbur

[Amonaug]

I am having a very hard time figuring out why you need to add 7" to work peace.
It looks like if I put in for a project to be 10x10 and I put in a peace 12x12. Alien to center, there should be no problem getting the 10x10.
I have been adding 7" and staying under the rollers and the project comes out smaller than what I want.
Today I did another and did not stay under the rollers and the peace was larger.
This may be simple but for the life of me I can't see it. HELP

Wilbur

You add 7" to the actual board you put into the CW not to the project board. This makes sure there are 3 1/2" on each side of the carving that will stay under the rollers. So if you want a 10 x 10 carving you would use a board that is at least 17 x 11 (extra 1/2" on the top and bottom for the rollers to roll on)

Make sure to read the Tips & Tricks

[Wilbur]

I understand the 7" so that the peace stays under the rollers and don't have a problem with that.
What I don't understand is , why.
You have a choice to stay under the rollers or not.
When I stay under the rollers the peace turns out smaller but when I do the same peace not staying under the rollers it turns out the right size.


I thank you for getting back with me on this.
I may see staying under both rollers if the peace is long.
I may be asking the wrong question.
What is the difference of staying under both rollers or not.

Wilbur Ginn
Greenwood SC

[cnsranch]

Since I always add the 7", I'm not gonna give you the exact language from the machine when you load your project, but here goes:

First of all, the extra 3.5" on each end of the board assures you that the board will stay under the rollers - that assures you that equal pressure is kept on the board at all times. If you do not add the 7", and the machine asks you to stay under the rollers, and you say "Yes", it will scale your project to fit, and the end product will be smaller than designed. If you say "No", the end product will carve as designed. If you add the extra 7", and you tell the machine to scale the project to fit the board, it will be bigger (longer) than designed.

A lot of folks will tell you that they never add the extra length, always tell the machine to NOT stay under the rollers, and have no problem with the results. The risk is this - as the board moves thru the machine, and the end of the board is no longer under the one roller, there is the chance that the board can tip somewhat - it's just like a planer or drum sander - when you don't have the pressure correct on those machines, you experience "snipe", an area at the end of the board that is sanded or planed deeper cause the board tipped. You won't get "snipe" on the CW, but you can experience a different depth to the carve, with a definite line where it originally tipped.

Bottom line is that you do have the choice to stay under the rollers or not, you just have to understand the risk of not doing so. A smaller piece will not be inclined to tip as one that's longer, heavier, etc.

[Wilbur]

Thank you for the replay. I understand just what you are saying. I also agree and believe that having the board under both rollers is the better way to go. I am not trying to save any board so I do always have extra board.
I think that I will continue to do this and tell CW to not stay under rollers making sure I don't have a reduction in my project.
I understand this more now.
Now, If I put in a peace that would be a 10x10 using a board 20x12 and say stay under rollers. Would the finished peace be less than 10X10?

Thanks
Wilbur

[cnsranch]

If the board measurements in Designer are 10x10, and you put in a real board that's 20x12, and you tell the machine to center on length, and not to cut to length, and to stay under rollers, your project will not be less than 10x10.

[Amonaug]

When you tell the machine to Stay Under the Rollers it adds 7" to the project that was loaded and when it measures it looks for a board of at least that length. If the board is shorter then it should ask you if you want to resize the project. If you say yes then it will shrink the project until it fits on the board leaving the 3.5" on each end.

Telling it not to stay under the rollers, it doesn't add the 7" to the project and assumes you did to the actual board or you plan on not staying under the rollers.

So your sample above the CW would look for a board at least 17" long and since it would find that it shouldn't rescale the project.

[Wilbur]

Thanks
I have a better vew now.

Wilbur

[liquidguitars]

It can be simple if you just add the total board size to Designer and hit "02" No and "center" or "place on end".

I not sure why one would not add the total board size to Designer.. :)

LG

[Digitalwoodshop]

The way I design 90% of my projects is to draw a 4 inch box on the right side of designer. Then place my artwork next to the box. The right side of the designer is the end that I put into the machine first. That lets me already have a 4 inch under the rollers. I leave my boards LONG and cut it off after it is carved.

You can also use a sled with the same 4 inch rule. Here is a sled with a 6 inch block at the end so my Designer has a 6 inch block. I just tape the board SCRAP into the sled and don't waste much wood. I even make the 4 inch cut offs into small signs.

AL

This is 2 different projects.

[liquidguitars]

Seeing the extra 4" in designer is a good way to go from a visual stand point it's WYSIWYG, so knots, screws or splits
can be measured and located in Designer to avoid.


also you can print out the MPC as a blue print when building sleds. ;)

LG

[mtylerfl]

I understand the 7" so that the peace stays under the rollers and don't have a problem with that.
What I don't understand is , why.
You have a choice to stay under the rollers or not.
When I stay under the rollers the peace turns out smaller but when I do the same peace not staying under the rollers it turns out the right size.

Wilbur Ginn
Greenwood SC

Hello Wilber,

The reason you are getting the resize of your projects is that your are adding the 7" in your actual project layout.

As per the instructions in the manufacturer's manual (page 23 or 25 or 28 depending on your particular manual version), you layout the project in the software on a board length that just fits your design. The board you actually put into the machine is 7" longer than your software design (i.e., 3.5" added at each end). Do that, and all your problems with resizing will "go away"!

Example: If you create a layout at the finished length of say, 19" long, then the board you place into the machine will need to be at least 26" long. (see photo)

Without getting into an unneccessary debate about all the other methods that are possible, this is certainly the easiest method to start out with when you are first becoming familiar with your machine. Later, you can explore alternatives if you wish, but the method recommended by the manufacturer is "foolproof", won't cause you any problems, and your projects will always turn out as expected.

[liquidguitars]

Without getting into an unneccessary debate about all the other methods that are possible,

3 pages and we are still confused :-D :p ..

LG

[Kenm810]

Not me ! :wink:

[liquidguitars]

LOL my V board hurts...

this is how i think Al's project would look in Designer with the sled ..

LG

[LollyWood]

Ken...that's just not right hehehehehe. My machine always gets a y axis stall when I try that carve style.

[ChrisAlb]

this is how i think Al's project would look in Designer with the sled ..

LG


Now THAT'S confussing.....:confused:

WOW! LOL...All that unnecessary drawing and figuring...:confused:...I don't see why??

When I use a sled which I do mostly to avoid wasting any wood, If my finished project is 10 x 10, I make the virtual board 10 x 10, the real board 10 x 10, center it in the sled, tell the CW to stay under rollers and center on board. Perfect every time and not a speck of wasted wood. Simple..http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

But, like anything else, it all boils down to the old saying, "whatever floats your boat"...LOL

I'm just a humble carpenter so "Simple" floats mine just fine....http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Digitalwoodshop]

In Designer the 4 inch would be on the right like this.

I always use "Place on End"

AL

[mtylerfl]

Now THAT'S confussing.....:confused:

WOW! LOL...All that unnecessary drawing and figuring...:confused:...I don't see why??

When I use a sled which I do mostly to avoid wasting any wood, If my finished project is 10 x 10, I make the virtual board 10 x 10, the real board 10 x 10, center it in the sled, tell the CW to stay under rollers and center on board. Perfect every time and not a speck of wasted wood. Simple..http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

But, like anything else, it all boils down to the old saying, "whatever floats your boat"...LOL

I'm just a humble carpenter so "Simple" floats mine just fine....http://forum.carvewright.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Your procedure is absolutely correct, when using a sled. The extra 7" has to come from somewhere! The sled provides that for you, of course (and a little more since you do the 4" thing, which is fine.)

If no sled, the real board must have at least 7" extra inches length (minimum 3.5" on each side) beyond the actual design area layout.