View Full Version : Patience running low...
hetzerguitars
02-07-2008, 10:43 PM
Tomorrow marks me having this machine for one week. I've got to say this machine has got to be the most fragile and seemingly "Beta" machine I've ever used. Maybe I just have a "Friday" model but I am quickly loosing my patience; Manuals not matching the hardware, Misaligned Sliding guide plates, Servo Errors, Error 572, Error 274, constant Board Sensor problems, a defective probe, and now what appears to be a defective down head crank. I don't know what to do.
I can handle a learning curve for the software. I am a IT manager in the aerospace field. I am used to learning curves and working with manufacturing hardware. I enjoy the challenge and experience. But I can't work with what appears to be a defective machine. So I guess after one week I should send this thing back.
Anyone have any input before I box this thing up? I really want to keep it, but I don't think that this machine is usable in it's condition. And if they all have this many problems these things should still be in development and not on the market.
D*mn it, I am so frustrated right now. I can't scan, I can't cut. I want to make this work. But I don't know what to do.
I apologize for this rant, but this forum is the only group of people who can relate to this. If I ever get the chance, maybe at a CW convention, I'll buy you all a beer.
- Jim
Jeff_Birt
02-07-2008, 11:42 PM
Tomorrow marks me having this machine for one week. I've got to say this machine has got to be the most fragile and seemingly "Beta" machine I've ever used. Maybe I just have a "Friday" model but I am quickly loosing my patience; Manuals not matching the hardware, Misaligned Sliding guide plates, Servo Errors, Error 572, Error 274, constant Board Sensor problems, a defective probe, and now what appears to be a defective down head crank. I don't know what to do.
The vast majority of this sounds like typical user error to me. Starting from the bottom of your list: The crank. I will guess you have cranked it all the way up and now it won't crank down. Don't feel bad this is the most common newbie problem. The solution is even in the users manual :). There is a small hole in the jacking screws, both front and rear, insert a small Allen wrench and give one of them a few turns to start the head down. I would also check that the head is still level with the base.
Defective probe: OK, that stinks, no user error there at all. I will assume that CW is replacing it.
Manuals: I'm not sure what is in the users guide (only real HW manual) that is out of date. I know the SW manual is WAY out of date but I understand they are working on it. (again not user error)
Board sensor: This needs to be cleaned after every carve (just by wiping) and it's reading will vary depending on the wood used. Also if your head pressure is off the reading will vary. There is a calibration for the sensor in the manual as well. Oh, stock less than 1/2" will not measure well.
Servo errors: usually caused by trying to make the machine do something it shouldn't. Can also be caused my lack of proper maintenance, causing dragging on the rails or the bit-plate to not pop out. Or, things like your board was not staying under rollers, etc.
Anyhow, I understand your frustration. This technology is new to lots of folks and there can be a substantial learning curve. It's like eating an elephant. Take it one small bite at a time.
hetzerguitars
02-08-2008, 12:18 AM
>The vast majority of this sounds like typical user error to me. Starting from >the bottom of your list: The crank.
No, it's in the middle and keeps clicking like it's on a board. It's not all the way up. It's about 2" from the belt.
>Defective probe: OK, that stinks, no user error there at all. I will assume
>that CW is replacing it.
Yes they are.
>Manuals: I'm not sure what is in the users guide
Even a manual on the probe would be nice. The manual I received with the probe was for an older model. Where to plug it in is obvious (although the manual says a different place) But things like which direction should it face? My probe has up and down movement and one direction from the side, it doesn't move in all directions like probes on other validation or inspection machines I've worked with in Aerospace.
>Board sensor: This needs to be cleaned after every carve (just by wiping) >and it's reading will vary depending on the wood used.
At first I didn't clean it after each use, but after about 2 days, I started completely cleaning out the machine with air and a vacuum after each use.
My regiment did, and still does, include cleaning the sensor.
>Servo errors: usually caused by trying to make the machine do something it >shouldn't.
Right now, I use it mostly for measuring boards. Since it's not working very well, I measure my boards with it while I am designing. I have many wooden blanks (soon to be guitar bodies around). And I get errors just measuring. And then the other errors are scanning. I don't get them cutting.
>Or, things like your board was not staying under rollers, etc.
This could be considering that the sliding plate will not say tight. So after each use I tighten it. I would use like lock tite on it, but from what I understand I need to be able to remove it for belt changing.
My latest issue is "Check Back Roller".
I don't really see these as "user error". I am a very mechanical person, in fact before I had this (two years ago) I built a 3 Axis routing machine that also had a graphical interface. But once I saw samples from the CW, I stopped using mine. I just think that Non-descript error messages not included in manuals, incorrect manuals, hardware problems don't sound like user error. But I don't know, like I said, it's only been 6 days.
I really appreciate your input and from the rest of the forum. But this seems like a great deal for 6 days worth of use. I probably don't have 2 hours of cutting on this machine yet. I am going to try to talk to tech support again tomorrow. I *REALLY* want this to work. I am not going to give up. I wanted one of these machines for over a year. It took me forever to get that much money together. I am not giving up now. I just hate to have to keep coming to the forum for help. I just want to be able to scan something or draw it and cut it.
- Jim
Jeff_Birt
02-08-2008, 12:32 AM
Check that the head (top half of machine, not the Y/Z truck) is level. Measure from the top of the guide bushings to the the flat spots on the vertical guide posts. It should be dead level. If it's not you will have all sorts of problems. I'm beginning to think that all the box handlers in the world don't realize how heavy the machine is and drop knocking the head crooked.
If it is level, loosen up the four bolts on top of the guide posts and give the head a slight wiggle to let the rods center and retighten. Also, check that the rods are lightly lubricated.
Hope that helps, let us know.
bjbethke
02-08-2008, 01:39 AM
Your back roller is staying in the compressed mode, or the switch thinks it is. This will not allow you to measure your boards and give you errors. The board will run out from under the rollers. It is not a board sensor problem. The machine should measure the width OK? It measures the back length when it runs the board past the back roller. If the roller stays compressed it will keep running the board out of the front roller and out of the front of the machine. Most likely cause the back roller is packed with saw dust.
Do you have a Down Draft table? If not, that may be the cause of most of your problems. I had a lot of problems with saw dust build up before I built my Down Draft table. If you have your CW machine setting on a bench or table the slot on the bottom of the machine will be packed with saw dust. You can not remove that with air or a vacuum cleaner. You need to lift the machine up and clean that slot out, and place your machine on a stand where the saw dust can fall free from that slot. You can build a good down draft table then you won’t need a vacuum cleaner, just use a little air to blow a little dust out of the machine your machine. I have a post on the unit built. It works great
deemon328
02-08-2008, 07:02 AM
Quite frankly, cleaning the board sensor lens just isn't enough once it gets dust on the inside. I took mine apart and used hot melt glue around the circuitboard and plastic rim to seal it up from that side after a liberal cleaning with that hexane circuit board cleaning stuff. The dust gets in from there and not from the lens area. Remove the lens retainer and spray that side with cleaner too. I don't agree with removing the lens to get better readings. Sealing the other side up has fixed my problems.
Don't remove it unless you have the 3/8" bit to recalibrate your machine.
IMO, the carvewright is in an early adopter stage right now. If you get your hands dirty with the machine, you'll be able to fix most issues yourself.
The head crank just doesn't work well under 60 degrees(room temperature in practice). The grease on the rails is too firm until that temperature. it's also possible that you need to regrease them.
hetzerguitars
02-09-2008, 01:10 PM
>in the compressed mode
What does this mean?
>I took mine apart and used hot melt glue around the circuitboard and plastic
>rim to seal it up from that side after a liberal cleaning with that hexane circuit
>board cleaning stuff.
Ok, this is the type stuff I am very willing and able to do. But because it's so new I am apprehensive. Because what if I need to send it in for service? Will that void my warranty?
- Jim
jkmstevens
02-09-2008, 02:39 PM
Not sure if this is useful - just got one yesterday have done maybe four projects already - few minor issues but damn it works well - I think you may have a machine that was banged up in shipping ?
Can see need to learn lot of tricks to make work well - but not bad for $1,800 ..
John
>in the compressed mode
What does this mean?
>I took mine apart and used hot melt glue around the circuitboard and plastic
>rim to seal it up from that side after a liberal cleaning with that hexane circuit
>board cleaning stuff.
Ok, this is the type stuff I am very willing and able to do. But because it's so new I am apprehensive. Because what if I need to send it in for service? Will that void my warranty?
- Jim
bjbethke
02-09-2008, 02:54 PM
You stated you had a Check Back Roller error.
The back roller is the left roller in the head assembly, These are the rollers that you crank down to put pressure on your board. Saw dust can build up in the roller bushings.
When you are measuring the board the pressure on this roller is relaxed after the board passes this roller. If saw dust builds up in the bushing the roller will stay compressed and the machine will think you have a long board installed. And it will never see the back side of your board. It will keep running out of the front of your machine.
Jeff_Birt
02-09-2008, 03:16 PM
Jim,
Have you checked that you head (top part that moves up/down) is level with the machine yet?
hetzerguitars
02-09-2008, 10:08 PM
I am checking those things tonight.
hetzerguitars
02-09-2008, 10:11 PM
Hey Jeff,
What PSI you running on your air blast system? I am thinking on making one. I've found that even with my huge dust coll. system it's just not coming out that little hole in the back. I want to direct the dust better. I am also really wanting to put a laser pointer on there somewhere. So I can tell where I am when using the scanning probe.
- Jim
Jeff_Birt
02-10-2008, 12:27 AM
I'm running my air blast at 7 psi which feeds 3' of 1/4" plastic tubing and about 10" of 1/16" copper tubing. There is not a lot of volume.
Are you trying to hook your DC to the muffler port on the machines side? It should be hooked up as a down draft. http://www.carvewright.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25240&postcount=17
TIMCOSBY
02-10-2008, 12:30 AM
other guys on here that thinks compressed air to clean out the machine is bad....gets the stuff where it normally doesn't go. but the air blast on the chuck is a good idea because its only 10 psi or so. i have never wiped my sensors and my machine only gets vacuumed out at the end of the carve and not very good at that and it just carves away. i think they designed it to put up with a lot of dust and using 90psi air blast may be shoving shavings into places they shouldn't be.
TIMCOSBY
02-10-2008, 12:34 AM
muffler port. part of that air is redirected to blow across the board from the keyboard side. just looking inside the black muffler bag should tell you that it is not for dust collection very little dust in there at the end of the carve. it looks like a dust collection port though doesn't it.
Jeff_Birt
02-10-2008, 12:39 AM
other guys on here that thinks compressed air to clean out the machine is bad....gets the stuff where it normally doesn't go.
Generally this is true on all machine tools, if I caught someone with an air gun around my mills or lathes in the lab I would kick their butt out the door. Although air would be OK for clearing the t-slots on the table, using it to clean around the ways is really bad just as you say.
The CW is designed a bit diffrently though, there are areas that you cannot get with a vacuum (which is the first clean up tool to reach for), so some moderate pressure air (say #40) used is these areas (above compression rollers, the areas at the bottoms of the front and rear covers ) then your doing more good than harm, IMHO.
TIMCOSBY
02-10-2008, 12:56 AM
i only vacuum off of the sandpaper and in between the sandpaper slot and it just carves away i wonder why?
hetzerguitars
02-10-2008, 03:20 PM
So the connector on the back, that uses a standard dust collection fitting, and has a bag on it, is NOT for DC ? What is it for? A bag is not going to muffle sound. Why would they use a DC fitting if it was for something else. And why does that bag fill up with saw dust as I work? Where is the DC connection for this thing? Tell me that is something else the engineers forgot.
The guys at woodcraft sold me my DC system with this unit and looked in their books to find what fitting I would need to hook to it and they sold it to me.
- Jim
Jeff_Birt
02-10-2008, 09:15 PM
The cut motor draws some air from the carving compartment through the front of the cut motor and it exhausts through the bag. It will pick up some of the very fine sawdust the machine produces and help keep it out of the air, it also helps to cool the motor. The ducting is not set up for chip extraction though, that is what the slot in the bottom of the machine is for. Some have run a line from the exhaust 'muffler' port to their DC system as well (in addition to the downdraft). I think that's a good idea as it gets rid of the bag.
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