software format

[judyb]

basically, what is the best way of creating detailed artwork that will produce the highest quality for the final project? the pattern depot is great... but some customers want very specific things and to be able to create them myself with the help of my graphic artists would be an amazing thing!!

I have read that I can use other programs to create my art and then import it in the carvewright program. considering I have 2 very talented graphic artist at my disposal:

Which program does a better job?

what's the best file format to save it under? PNG? if so, whats the difference between png 8 and png 24?

I own Photoshop and illustrator can they do the job ok? are they just good for 2d projects? what if I want more dept and want more of a 3d effect?

What program can be used to pick and choose the height of the different parts of an image? and then what format should I save it in so that it will retain heigh information?

does greyscale work better that color? will gradient or transparency options help the quality of the imported work?

once an image is imported in the carvewright program, can I manually change the dept or height of a specific area or line without changing or affecting the rest if the image?

when importing test images, it sometimes looks like the program took the pixels and turned them into cones with very high summets. just like a "valley of cones". the image lookes better when it's not raised too much but as soon as I want to add height, it looks like thousands of upside down iciles... not vey nice. is this because the quality of the image was not high enough? if so, what's the minimal quality required?

I know these are alot of questions... but if I forgot one or 2 and you can help me in any other way that I can't think of right now, feel free to add any extra information.

thanks again for all your help!

Judy

[TIMCOSBY]

artcam or another 3d program around $10,000.

[ChrisAlb]

basically, what is the best way of creating detailed artwork that will produce the highest quality for the final project? the pattern depot is great... but some customers want very specific things and to be able to create them myself with the help of my graphic artists would be an amazing thing!!


thanks again for all your help!

Judy


Hi Judy,

Let me see if I can field a few of these for you. First off, gray scale is all that matters since that's how the machine works. If you bring a color image into the software it will be converted to gray scale. When I'm working in PaintShop Pro which is all I use, I work Solely in gray-scale in a NON Negative environment. That way, the darker the color, the deeper the cut. Once you're done you can either save the image as a negative or just "Invert" it back and forth once in designer depending on whether you want it cut "into" or raised "out" of the wood.

All individual regions of gray must be ONE shade. If you have varying shaded pixels in any given region, the machine WILL see it and cut accordingly (you're peaks and valleys). The machine and software recognize ALL 255 shades of gray.

I won't kid you. Taking a picture and "cleaning it up" for carving is time consuming tedious work. I just spent 36 hours doing the artwork for a custom project for a customer. He wanted a carved Yankee stadium Facade. I've never seen it so I scoured the net for a picture. What I found was poor at best but it was enough to work with. After converting it to gray-scale I had to first remove all the background elements, identify the different heights of each element and then tackle all the varying pixels within "each" region of different depth. Not an easy task to be sure but take a look at the results.

Picture 1 is the one I found to start with. Picture 2 is the result of my 36 hours of editing and picture 3 is the carved result. Now maybe there's some "Super" software out there but I can't see any getting around the simple fact that when you want to make a 3D carving, you have to layer the gray-scale for proper depths whether you start with a photo or from scratch.

As I said, I used PaintShop pro for this. A relatively inexpensive but very capable program. Now I just have to figure out how to cut it all out of the board. This is to be a fully carved out "see" through project. Not just carved into the solid board like a picture. I know it can be done with the cut path in designer but being as this will be 6 sections all together in one piece, 6 foot 6 long by 8 inches tall, that a LOT of paths...lol

And oh, I always use PNG files. Jpg files create too much noise or speckles that would just have to be removed again.

Hope this helps.

Chris

[Lin]

Chris, At this point with your project needing to be "see thru"...I would think the scrollsaw would be the next step for all the interior and outer cuts after the CW does its part...nice, clean cuts...and using a sprial blade you should be able to do any size cut out with most any scrollsaw.
Lin

[ChrisAlb]

Hi Lin, How you been?

I had that thought and you may be right. I figured the outline cuts wouldn't pose "too" much of a problem but the inner ones....I just don't know. I had already figured to drill all the holes the rest of the way through by hand. I'm working on setting up cut paths for that test carve of the single section in CW now. I figure it's a sacrificial board anyway. Might as well see what this baby can do. It's an expensive project for this guy and it has to be top quality so if the test doesn't work out right I'll do it by hand for sure. I'm sure it would be a lot quicker anyway. It's already about a 10 hour carve without having the CW cut it out or drill holes...lol Like any good woodworkers tool, it has it's place.

Talk about a true Yankee fan. This man is driving up from NC to pick up here in PA. He says he's Bent looking for someone to make this for his Yankee room for over 2 years now and won't trust the hands of shippers with it...lol

Loved your praying hands project. Very creative!!

Chris

[www.go3d.us]

Need custom pattern? send it to me instead of buying new software and spending all of your time learning how to use it. :)
Just like TIMCOSBY said, software could cost $10000+
Thanks
HT

[Lin]

Chris, Thanks for the kudos on the "Prayer Hands". I'm doing fine...tinkering around with a few CW projects and doing a few orders for the Scrollsaw. Not a lot going on right now. I personally would use the scrollsaw for all of the outer cuts and the inner cuts also. I always use my scrollsaw if I'm cutting thru the borad. I don't use a carve region unless I need it but will do an outline .060" deep with the 1/8" bit to follow with the scrollsaw if I will need a line to follow. With what you are up to I would think you would not need the carve region at all and could get by with just an 1/8" or 1/4" feather to give yourself a line to follow on the scrollsaw....I know it saves me a lot of time using the scrollsaw for my cutouts...quicker than the CW and very clean.
Lin

[ChrisAlb]

Lin, I only used the carve region to show my customer what it looks like with some depth before going to final carve. It's too big a project not to have his ok...lol. I do exactly the same thing with the outline cut and you're absolutely right. On a 6'-6" x 8" carve, The CW would take many hours. My handy jig saw and I can do it in minutes. Thanks for the suggestions.

Chris

[judyb]

wow!!! thanks alot for all the info! I'am really looking forward to put it too work. I see I have some testing to do, but you've really helped me along.

and thanks for the offer go3d, i just might take you up on it.

happy carving!

Judy

[judyb]

Hi Chris,

I have a question for you.
Considering the max carving height is 1" why can't you carve a couple of 1" boards (with only the first one having all the detailed work) and then glue them one on top of the other to give it the thickness you want? would'nt that help at not having to cut the thing by hand after?

judy

[ChrisAlb]

Hi Chris,

I have a question for you.
Considering the max carving height is 1" why can't you carve a couple of 1" boards (with only the first one having all the detailed work) and then glue them one on top of the other to give it the thickness you want? would'nt that help at not having to cut the thing by hand after?

judy

Hi Judy,

This is only getting cut from a 3/4" thick board. The project doesn't need to be any thicker. It just has to be cut out completely so you can see through it like a real railing. In other words, nothing but the railing will remain. All the holes, spaces between the spindles and all around the outside will be gone.

But to answer your point, While the machine will only cut one inch deep, it will handle material up to 6 inches thick so if you wanted a thicker project, you'd just carve the pattern in a thicker piece of wood. Right now, just a test, I'm trying something a little different. I've flipped that test carve I posted the picture of over and I'm carving it from the other side. By setting the region depth to .35, it should only leave .05 about 3/32 of wood I'll have to remove. Should be able to do that with an exacto knife.

Now this obviously will double the carve time at least but, it will also produce a truly 3D railing from both sides. Lin had a good point and I thought the same thing about a jig saw to finish it with but after careful consideration, I've discovered that A) there's some very intricate details I think would be difficult at best to not mess up, B) once the pattern is carved I no longer have a flat surface to work on and C) I'm afraid the base of the jig saw will simply beat the heck out of the face of it.

This particular project is an unusual carve that presents some interesting problems to overcome. Since it's not anything I've done before it's a matter of learning. While I have no doubts about the success of the final outcome, it's just a matter of figuring out the best approach to get there.

Learning every day...lol

Chris

[Kenm810]

Hi Chris,

No need to apologize, if you happen to double post or just want to remove one of your own posts.
You can use the Edit, Delete option at the bottom right hand corner of your post or reply.

Quick and Simple http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

[ChrisAlb]

Thanks Ken, I wasn't aware of that.

[ChrisAlb]

Hey now...that works very well...lol Just like always, it's easy when you know how!

[gmalanoski]

Judy,

Another alternative is to use free software such as Blender (http://www.blender.org) to model your pattern, then apply a material with a texture to create height information. Then, when you render the image, you will get a very nice output which can be imported into the designer. There is tons of info about Blender on the internet as well as a few posts here in the forums. Don't be mistaken though, there is a learning curve, but it is FREE!

HTH,

[ChrisAlb]

Judy,

Another alternative is to use free software such as Blender (http://www.blender.org) to model your pattern, then apply a material with a texture to create height information. Then, when you render the image, you will get a very nice output which can be imported into the designer. There is tons of info about Blender on the internet as well as a few posts here in the forums. Don't be mistaken though, there is a learning curve, but it is FREE!

HTH,

Hi gmalanoski,

I read about that a few weeks ago and downloaded it. I'm pretty familiar with many graphics apps including AutoCad 2000 which I've used for years but I have to admit that when I opened blender, I was pretty confused by it. Perhaps you could provide some very basic "getting started" info on it?

Admittedly I haven't spent any time at all learning it on my own and I know I should. Just seems there aren't enough hours in a day...lol

Chris

[larry711]

i agree with chrisalb. i dont even know where to start. i am wanting to make some paterns. as yet havent found a way to make them that is cheap and easy. is there one? help

[ChrisAlb]

Well folks after all that I figured I'd better post the results. I let the CW cut everything but the holes. I had it locate them as in my test carve and just finished them with my drill. This is hot off the CW so no sanding or finishing.

Now I just have to make the 6 section final product and it's on to the next one....lol

Chris

[Kenm810]

Hey Chris,

Nice Job, Even without sanding the detail looks
pretty good in the Photo http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[gmalanoski]

I would recommend to start learning Blender one should go thru all of Neal Hirsig's Blender 3D Design Course (http://www.gryllus.net/Blender/3D.html). Start with the learning units then progress to some of the other videos. I haven't actually done any of the "tutorials", but have followed the videos initially to get the basic concept, then as needed for reference. Jeff Birt left a post related to using Blender for heightmaps here (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=1695&highlight=blender).

After you get the basics and become familiar with the UI, there are some other materials such as making a rope (http://dave.bloopdiary.com/tutorials/ropetut/ropetut.htm) in Blender. Below is a png of my sample. I think it came out very nice but you can decide for yourself. And, once familiar, it only took a couple of minutes to produce.

Honestly, I too am new to this software and only have a few weeks experience. However, I have found that it is fairly simple to pick up a few of the concepts that are useful in regards to making image renderings. Blender is a very powerful animation package and it's abilities far exceed what we need. But, most importantly, it's free!

This should get you started. If you have any questions, please let me know and I will try to help - if I can. I think the more of use that take the time to learn this aspect, the more we will all benefit! :)

[Jeff_Birt]

I tried and tried and tried to learn Blender. My conclusion is that it has the worst user interface ever invented. Even just loading or saving a file is goofy. I guess You get what you pay for...

I really like http://moi3d.com/ but it does not output heightmaps.

[gmalanoski]

Admittedly the UI isn't the most desirable. But, I couldn't imagine that it could stump Jeff Birt... :shock: And, of course, it's not designed to be a cad program, so I would guess it's not anything like what most of us may be used to anyway.

From some of the videos I've watched, people familiar with it make it look soooo simple. You also have to keep in mind that it is designed for animating mesh objects. If you peruse some of the "animations", I think anyone would be astonished by it's capabilities. Somewhere in the history of the development I think I read something about it being the #1 animation package in Europe during/thru the 1990's before the company dissolved and they released the package into the public domain. And now, it has quite a following with continual development & support. Rumor even has it that they were looking for UI developers - possibly for a new UI.

[ChrisAlb]

I would recommend to start learning Blender one should go thru all of Neal Hirsig's Blender 3D Design Course (http://www.gryllus.net/Blender/3D.html). Start with the learning units then progress to some of the other videos...... :)

Thanks Greg! You see? I wasn't even aware of the course and videos so you've helped me much already!! I will check them out for sure. Nice rope also.


I tried and tried and tried to learn Blender. My conclusion is that it has the worst user interface ever invented. Even just loading or saving a file is goofy. I guess You get what you pay for...
I really like http://moi3d.com/ but it does not output heightmaps.

I know what you mean Jeff. When I first opened it I couldn't even get past navigating the 4 screens...lol But then, it was the same way for AutoCad 10 which came on 5- 5 1/4 floppies and ran back in DOS days. Now it's old hat to me. I've still never seen a "height map". By definition only I can imagine what one is. I've just resigned my self to getting good at layering gray-scale in my old trusty PaintShop X2. At first it was total confusion but now that I "understand", it's really not hard although can be a bit time consuming.

Chris

[judyb]

what format do you save the blender files? I don't see ptn...

thanks

Judy

[gmalanoski]

Judy,

Once you model your object, you need to apply a material with a "blend" texture, change the camera to orthographic, size/position/scale everything, then render your image (this is all outlined in the link in Jeff's post).

When you are setting up your camera, open the Scene properties (F10) and under the Format section you can change the render properties (image size, type). I would set the type to "png" so that you can then import this directly into the designer software. To "render" your model, you press "F12", then "F3" to save that rendering. Your rendering and your model are seperate files. You should save your source model as a ".blend" file.

HTH,