Assistance with making a rabbet

[andes]

Hello All,

I am working on a project, just started. Its in my head and I am trying to create as I go along; since I am new to CW. I am working on the first parts to my molding, and need to create rabbets on the back of each opening. I'm not quite sure if I did it correctly, could some take a look and advise me.

Thanks

Andes

[Aaron B]

On the back side are you wanting those walls to be there? It looks more like a grove than a rabbet since those wall are left. Wasn't sure if that is what you wanted.

[andes]

Aaron,

No, I was just trying to create rabbets, such as the concept with a picture frame. I will be putting something in the opening and want to keep the back level. The other thing I need to know is once I create all the pieces, can I combine them in the design software to make one piece? Do you know how that is done, thats if it can be done.

Thanks

[Aaron B]

For the rabbets, you will to make another rectangle just inside of the one you have and select the 1/8" straight bit again. There will be some overlapping of the carves but that will be ok and then you wont have that wall that is there.

[ChrisAlb]

Hello All,

I am working on a project, just started. Its in my head and I am trying to create as I go along; since I am new to CW. I am working on the first parts to my molding, and need to create rabbets on the back of each opening. I'm not quite sure if I did it correctly, could some take a look and advise me.

Thanks

Andes

Hi Andes,

Perhaps a little more detail would help. It would appear you've locked in a precise size for the cut outs on the front. For example, on the sides you have an exact 8" x 1.5" cut out locked on centers. That's good. Now, how wide do you want the rabbits to be? If you want them to be say 3/8" all around then you just need to add 3/4" to your front numbers and again, locked to the centers. So on the back you would have 8.75" x 2.25" giving you a 3/8" rabbit all around.

Hope that helps. If not, tell me what you're looking for and I'll modify your mpc's and repost them.

Chris

[andes]

Chris,

I only need 1/8" rabbet all arround. Also, once I create all the pieces, can I combine them in the design software to make one piece? Do you know how that is done, thats if it can be done. Or would it be better to start over and create one piece? Because the four sides are one piece.


Andes

[ChrisAlb]

Chris,

I only need 1/8" rabbet all arround. Also, once I create all the pieces, can I combine them in the design software to make one piece? Do you know how that is done, thats if it can be done. Or would it be better to start over and create one piece? Because the four sides are one piece.


Andes

I would start with a board big enough (width) to cut all the pieces on. I know of no way to combine 2 "separate" projects into one.

Chris

[andes]

Thanks Chris and Aaron, I will go and implement your suggestions. Now if I can get this design out of my head and created in CW, it's going to be awesom ;-) I've had my machine for a month, but it's been too cold to start carving, so I'm taking this time to learn how to create designs. I already have one thing that DrBob helped me with, I only hope that I don't have problems with the machine when I do start it. I've read a lot of the stuff in the forum and there are issues that I just hope I don't run into. Again thanks

Andes

[ChrisAlb]

Andes,

I'm not sure of your total concept here but see if this is close to what you're looking for. Also, I noticed you've mirrored the items. While this will work, I have found it easier to make separate pieces. You can make one and then copy and paste it if you like. That way, you have more control over placing them on the board. Take notice of the "attachments" I've made to line things up on the board. Once you get used to this, the sky is the limit. Also, you can enter the numbers in fractions to make it easier.

If you do have problems with the machine, DON"T get discouraged. We've all been there and we're all glad to help. We're all in on the "ground floor" with this and the kinks are getting worked out as we go. In the mean time, we've all made some really nice projects and so will you.

Chris

[andes]

Chris,

I did a draft to give you an idea of what I am trying to create. The way I have it, not too sure it will crave correctly. I am trying to create a special frame, in the opening I will be putting glass. Take a look at it and let me know what you think; I'm sure that I have a ways to go, before its ready to carve.

Andes

[hotpop]

I made a sample for you. All your cutting can be made from the front side of your board. I also assumed you only have the carving and 1/8" cutting bits.

You only need the 1/8" cutting bit for this project.

There are 2 rectangles to create the 1/4" rabbit and an inner rectangler with a cut-thru path. The cut-thru will leave a few tabs to hold the middle from falling apart.

[andes]

Hotpop,

I purchase the whole bit set doing the sale. Could you take a look at my prototype and let me know what you think.

Andes

[Aaron B]

Hotpop,

I purchase the whole bit set doing the sale. Could you take a look at my prototype and let me know what you think.

Andes

Hotpops example looks like what I think you want. He has two rectangles using the 1/8" straight bit. That will make a flat surface for the glass to sit in. Your prototype looks fine you just need to add another smaller rectangle to each rabbet to get rid of the extra thats left over.

[ChrisAlb]

Chris,

I did a draft to give you an idea of what I am trying to create. The way I have it, not too sure it will crave correctly. I am trying to create a special frame, in the opening I will be putting glass. Take a look at it and let me know what you think; I'm sure that I have a ways to go, before its ready to carve.

Andes

Andes,

OK I think I get what you're doing. This is all "one" frame right? I thought you were making separate pieces i.e. top/bottom and sides to be cut apart and then assembled in some fashion.

You're on the right track with this but unless you're cutting this out of "sheet" material, i.e. plywood, corian or glued together boards or such that you can get a 15" (width) out of, I would turn the whole project on it's side making the width the 11". That way you can use a 1 x 12 for it.

Also, unless you're using material with only "one" usable face, Hotpop has a great suggestion about cutting it all on one side. (sorry I didn't think of that. I was pretty tired last night...lol). That would make layout MUCH easier and eliminate the need for flipping the board over during carving.

[DrBob]

Hi Andes
Ya Me Again! Lol
I dont know why your rabbets were off, unless you intended them to be that way but i put them were I thought they should go.
Hope I am right if this helps
Bob

[DrBob]

Chris is right about the board width so I changed the dementions, here is the new file
Bob

[DrBob]

Here is what Hotpop suggested, with out the route edge board. Better this way and you can flip the board and do a edge route on a table router. If you dont have a router dont break away the peices and flip the board over and do the route edge seperate. If I am wrong someone step in here and correct me.
Bob

[andes]

Hey Bob, You were right on it. As you know I am still in the learning process, and guess I didn't get it quit right on the rabbets. Could you explain a bit on how you set the rabbets? DrBob Rocks ;-}

Thanks

Andes

[andes]

Chris,

You're right Hotpop's suggestion was really good, but I couldn't figure out how you would route the edge unless I did it by hand, it this is the case it would mean that I wouldn't have to flip the board. Am I understanding correctly? This is really cool, I am learning a lot from all of you. I'm so happy that we have so many knowledgable folks in the forum. Let me ask you another question, the CW will only except a 15" wide board, does that mean that the board needs to be a smaller or can it be exactly 15" ?

Ande

[ChrisAlb]

Chris,

You're right Hotpop's suggestion was really good, but I couldn't figure out how you would route the edge unless I did it by hand, it this is the case it would mean that I wouldn't have to flip the board. Am I understanding correctly? This is really cool, I am learning a lot from all of you. I'm so happy that we have so many knowledgable folks in the forum. Let me ask you another question, the CW will only except a 15" wide board, does that mean that the board needs to be a smaller or can it be exactly 15" ?

Ande

Simply set up another (separate) project with exactly the same size board. Put nothing but the edge route on it and let her rip. It will handle a 15" board. I've done so myself. Just wasn't sure if you had a board that's 15" wide.

[DrBob]

Hi Chris
That is cool that you can get a 15in board in your machine you wanna swap machines:D mine will only fit 14.5in. 14.75in if the guide plate is as far as it will go..I think I got jipped 1/4in:(
Oh well at least I will be carving soon, The wonderfull Barb, is passing on my Quick Change Chuck to me from CW. Waahh!!Hoohh!!
Bob

[ChrisAlb]

Hey Bob,

Wow, are you sure?? I had a cabinet door that was about a 1/16 shy of 15" and I carved a nice picture on the front of it. I definitely had the guide plate all the way back but it did fit and carved OK. Strange...Maybe just a fluke with mine??

Glad to hear you'll be up and carving again. I've been so busy creating, well....lol....trying to create patterns for sale that I haven't carved anything but them. I test carve ALL my patterns before releasing them.

[DrBob]

Hi Andes,

Perhaps a little more detail would help. It would appear you've locked in a precise size for the cut outs on the front. For example, on the sides you have an exact 8" x 1.5" cut out locked on centers. That's good. Now, how wide do you want the rabbits to be? If you want them to be say 3/8" all around then you just need to add 3/4" to your front numbers and again, locked to the centers. So on the back you would have 8.75" x 2.25" giving you a 3/8" rabbit all around.

Hope that helps. If not, tell me what you're looking for and I'll modify your mpc's and repost them.

Chris

Hi Andes
Chris 's answer here is good.
I would make the Square or Rectangle lock it in place and before I do the cut through, copy it and past it again in your list, go back to the original Square or Rectangle and do the cut through,
now take your copy lock it in the same place as the original and chose your bit 1/8 straight bit and set the depth you want, then go to the Square or Rectangle dimensions and increase x and y to the size to the needed rabbet. just remember 1/8 is the max offset without having to create another Square or Rectangle over again to make the rabbet wider.
Bob

[DrBob]

Hi Chris
Thats all I have been able to do is design which is good with the CW down. I have sold a couple of plaques and done a couple for myself, did you see the one of my girlfriend and myself in Just Showing Off that one I was especially happy with even though I had some steping on the outside cut out. Sorry forgot to mention this plaque was 14.5 W and I only had .25in to spare.
Bob

[andes]

Hey Bob,

Here's another one; if you have time take a look at it and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Ande

[DrBob]

Good Morning Andes
I took a look and this one, seems to be the same as the previous one. Did you follow the directions from the previous post?


I would make the Square or Rectangle lock it in place and before I do the cut through, copy it and past it again in your list, go back to the original Square or Rectangle and do the cut through,
now take your copy lock it in the same place as the original and chose your bit 1/8 straight bit and set the depth you want, then go to the Square or Rectangle dimensions and increase x and y to the size to the needed rabbet. just remember 1/8 is the max offset without having to create another Square or Rectangle over again to make the rabbet wider.

[DrBob]

Here is the file fixed, but I would like to see you give the directions a try.
It would be a lot easy'er if you keep the dementions to a whole fraction 1/4,3/8,1/2 or .25,.375,.5 and not a improper fraction like .134, .258 .
I dont mind helping.

Bob

[ChrisAlb]

In my attempts at answering Andes questions / problems on rabbits, I’ve discovered something rather interesting and somewhat unconventional to normal math.

He wants an 1/8” rabbit around a cut out right? Normally you would think, if you have a 5” x 3” cut out, you’d put a 5 ¼” x 3 ¼” box around it and using an 1/8” bit, you’d get an 1/8” rabbit all around. Not so it would seem. Doing that, you get exactly what Andes is getting. A “ridge” (although a very thin one) left around the cut out. As it turns out, after a day of layouts and test cutting I found the following

I put a 5 1/8” x 3 1/8” box around the cut out and it’s very close to an 1/8” rabbit all around but actually measures 3/32” or 1/32” less than the 1/8” rabbit we’re looking for. So I measured the cut out it’s self and discovered the 5” x 3” actually measures 5 1/16” x 3 1/16” which is why the rabbit is 1/32” less than 1/8” all around.

So digging a little deeper I tried the following. (see attached MPC and Photo of the results as they show the story). I made 3 test cuts based on the 5” x 3”.

The results left me to conclude that the Machine /Software calculates the “cutouts” to the “outside” of the bit. But on the rabbits (vectors) it would seem the Machine / Software calculates to the “center” of the bit. If anyone else has found this to be true I’d like to hear from you. For now at least, knowing this, we can compensate for it. I’m sending my test results to LHR.

As far as trying to help you out Andes. My biggest suggestion is learning to use the Attachment feature to be sure your “items” are lined up properly on the board. You can find this in the Designer help menu. Help/Help Contents/CarveWright Handbook/Drawing/Setting Attachments.

I don't know if the text on the picture will be readable due to the size limitations here.

[andes]

Thought I did, but guess I didn't. I will have to re-read the post to make sure I get it in my head correctly, thanks for taking a look.

Andes

[andes]

Chris

I'm not a he...... My name is Andrea. Thanks for the information. I guess I need more pratice.

Andes

[ChrisAlb]

My apologies Andrea. I didn't know . And I thank you for asking the questions as it made me dig in and learn a thing or two myself. That's the beauty of helping each other. We all learn new things everyday. Your questions become my answers so please keep right on asking.

Bob and I have been emailing back and forth on this one today. His post stated he fixed your design so I didn't bother. If you need any further help just ask. You'll find this forum is packed with some really great people always willing to lend a hand.

My motto is... The only dumb question is one not asked. Soon enough, you'll be giving advice as well.

[andes]

Chris,

Bob did fix the design for me, he's really great about that; I just have to re-read the instructions he provided and work on it ;-} You are right, there are some really great folk in the forum, always willing to help, and have loads of knowledge. Thanks for the vote of confidence, maybe someday I will be able to give some advise ;-}

Again I would like to thank both you and Bob for helping me out.

Andes

[DrBob]

Good Morning Andrea
First off I to would like to apoligize I beleive I led Chris into beleiving you were a guy, and I am very sorry for that, it was the Andes spelling that led to my stupidity, I assumed it was alternate for Andy.
As far as the work you are doing with designing it does take time to figure everything out and you will come into your own and like Chris said you will no doubt be helping others new and seasoned with their projects and showing off yours to the AWE! of everone else.

Bob

[andes]

Its ok Bob, no harm done ;-} You are partly right about the name. Andrea is my name but my nickname is Ande the S it the first Char of my last name. Ande is my alt spelling for Andy. I am really excited about this machine, I can't wait until it warms up enough for me to start it up. I'm working on the best way to build a down draft for the dust or some sort of dust collection system.

Thanks again.

Andes

[DrBob]

Anytime Andrea!
Bob

[Dyna Rider]

[FONT='Comic Sans MS']The results left me to conclude that the Machine /Software calculates the “cutouts” to the “outside” of the bit. But on the rabbits (vectors) it would seem the Machine / Software calculates to the “center” of the bit. If anyone else has found this to be true I’d like to hear from you. For now at least, knowing this, we can compensate for it. I’m sending my test results to LHR.



Hi Chris
I’m a little confused as to what your conclusion is but Post #4 by HighTechOkie at the follow link is a good explanation of how the bounding boxes work

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?p=41664#post41664

If you read my post just before his. You will see that my incorrect assumption was that the cutout was to the outside of the bit. Therefore the dimension the machine would cut, would be the dimension of the bounding box. If you follow his instructions and choose the ¼ Ballnose bit you will be able to see that the bit’s travel is centered on the bounding box lines. Therefore the size of the cutout, which the machine will produce, is dependent on the bit you place in the machine.

In other words if one places a 4” * 4” cutout, in the software and then places a bit that has a cut path of .237” in the machine. The machine will make a cutout in the board 4.237” x 4.237 “ that is if the machine is calibrated and functioning properly.

Bill

[ChrisAlb]

Hi Chris
I’m a little confused as to what your conclusion is but Post #4 by HighTechOkie at the follow link is a good explanation of how the bounding boxes work
Bill

Hey DanaRider, mines an Ultra Classic

Perhaps I confused things by getting too long winded. I do that sometimes ..lol

In a nutshell, What I found was simply this. Using the 1/8" straight bit for all of this.

On a 5 x 5 cutout, the machine uses the dimensions to the "outter" edge of the bit to produce the 5 x 5 finshed hole.

On a box, same 5 x 5, the machine uses (it seems in my tests) the "center" of the bit thus creating a 5 1/16 x 5 1/16 cut.

To check whether the bits made a difference or not. Today I did exactly the same tests using the 3/8 joining bit. Same 5 x 5.

The first test I told the "Software" it was the 3/8 bit and I choose that bit at the machine as well. A 5 x 5 cutout and a 5 3/8 x 5 3/8 rabbit were the results.

The second test I told the "Software" it was the 1/8 bit BUT choose the 3/8 bit at the machine. (did this to test what actually calculates the cut. The machine or the software) Exactly the same results. A 5 x 5 cutout and a 5 3/8 x 5 3/8 rabbit.

This proves (at least to me) 2 things.

First, Telling the machine NOT the software calculates the cuts regardless of bit used.

Second, backs up my first findings that Cutouts are figured to the "edge" of the bit while vectors (boxes) are calculated to the "center" of the bit. Again, regardless of the bit used.

[Dyna Rider]

Hey Chris

Ultra Classic … nice ride! Nope your post was good; I didn’t take the time to comprehend what I was reading. But then if did, I wouldn’t know you ride, or sat down with the software and played with the Inset value. I would have just agreed with your observations and moved on.

In case you’re not familiar with this feature the following is what I have found. First I didn’t find any documentation about it in the software help files. The Inset value on a closed loop moves the bit’s center off the center of the path. The offset seems have a maximum value of 0.125. A positive value moves it to the inside of the loop and a negative value moves it to the outside of the loop.

In the figure below, all three cutouts are the same size. Only the Inset value was changed for the rabbet. If you look at the carving list you’ll see that the select bit can be added to the cutout path. The group icon in the list is because the first time I added a separate path for the Select Bit function. The Inset value can be set in the Select Bit function and than changed at anytime in the Input Tool Bar. I also included the file which is pictured in the screen shot.

Ride Safe
Bill

[ChrisAlb]

Hey Chris

In case you’re not familiar with this feature the following is what I have found. First I didn’t find any documentation about it in the software help files. The Inset value on a closed loop moves the bit’s center off the center of the path. The offset seems have a maximum value of 0.125. A positive value moves it to the inside of the loop and a negative value moves it to the outside of the loop.

Ride Safe
Bill

Hey Dyna,

I should have mentioned that I left the inset alone. This test was just to see how the machine it's self handled bit figuring on cutouts versus vectors. While I know you can use the inset to "off center" the bit plus or minus .125, I didn't want to influence the test...lol

Although it would be nice if we had a wider inset range. Say, up to 1/2" plus or minus. That way, for any rabbiting we could just set up the 1/2" straight bit and offset it to whatever width rabbit you wanted.