New Machine won't measure, crank / clutch problem

[zeke]

My patience is finally running out.... 4th new machine, lubed the flexshaft, QC, all ready to go, this piece of %X@! won't even measure on the first run. DO THEY TEST THESE MACHINES OR JUST ENJOY INFLICTING NON-STOP AGGRAVATION ON US!!!!!!!!!!!!

I rewrote this several times, should have seen the first version. I keep trying and trying and trying and trying and it is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Frustrating putting it mildly!!!!!!!!! not to mention ALL THE WAITING IN BETWEEN........

I have only been able to carve 1 project in 4 machines. Bet LHR could enter the Guiness World book of Records with the highest number of machines failures for a single machine design type and take 1st place.

I tried a project and the wood (which is perfect in width, I made sure of that) just moves rapidly in a back and forth motion until it starts shaking uncontrolably and I stop/abort. Width measures, length is the problem. I cleaned the board sensor with a q-tip. Tried it 5 times, same results!!!!

Another problem right out of the gate is the crank / clutch is not working properly. The clutch does not click as it usually would, it may click once and then the crank wants to stop, I reverse motion and then try again, sometimes a little better sometimes worse......

Been on hold at LHR for over "2 HOURS AND 23 MINUTES" and counting (WHAT THE HECK, I HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO ON MY DAY OFF BUT WAIT ON THE PHONE) , my battery will wear out before somebody helps me. DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY ANSWER THE PHONE? GIVING UP, THEY MUST HAVE GHOSTS WORKING THE PHONES!!!! It's just one thing after the other with this company / machine. Staff up and don't do this to your customers, this is ridiculous!!! Work with your vendors that manufacturer these machines and call them on the carpet, shape up or ship out, you'd get less calls, less wait times maybe even more profits!!! Wow what company wouldn't take the steps to do that..... WHERE'S THE PRIDE IN QUALITY?????, well guess I didn't have to ask that question, the machines speak for themselves.

I don't see how the machine can really be quality checked at the factory when the drive conveyor belt is always clean when received. I'd rather they make a few cuts and have a belt with sawdust on it than go through this &(?&$.

[bobi]

My patience is finally running out.... 4th new machine, lubed the flexshaft, QC, all ready to go, this piece of %X@! won't even measure on the first run. DO THEY TEST THESE MACHINES OR JUST ENJOY INFLICTING NON-STOP AGGRAVATION ON US!!!!!!!!!!!!

I rewrote this several times, should have seen the first version. I keep trying and trying and trying and trying and it is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Frustrating putting it mildly!!!!!!!!! not to mention ALL THE WAITING IN BETWEEN........

I have only been able to carve 1 project in 4 machines. Bet LHR could enter the Guiness World book of Records with the highest number of machines failures for a single machine design type and take 1st place.

I tried a project and the wood (which is perfect in width, I made sure of that) just moves rapidly in a back and forth motion until it starts shaking uncontrolably and I stop/abort. Width measures, length is the problem. I cleaned the board sensor with a q-tip. Tried it 5 times, same results!!!!

Another problem right out of the gate is the crank / clutch is not working properly. The clutch does not click as it usually would, it may click once and then the crank wants to stop, I reverse motion and then try again, sometimes a little better sometimes worse......

Been on hold at LHR for over 1 hour and 15 minutes and counting, my battery will wear out before somebody helps me, it's just one thing after the other with this company / machine. Staff up and don't do this to your customers, this is ridiculous!!! Work with your vendors that manufacturer these machines and call them on the carpet, shape up or ship out, you'd get less calls, less wait times maybe even more profits!!! Wow what company wouldn't take the steps to do that..... Where's the pride in quality, well guess I didn't have to ask that question, the machines speak for themselves.

I don't see how the machine can really be quality checked at the factory when the drive conveyor belt is always clean when received. I'd rather they make a few cuts and have a belt with sawdust on it than go through this &(?&$.
Sounds like the clutch did not get greased. That was a problem on mine also. It means that it is cranking down on the project too hard. Have you tried putting a bathroom scale under the rollers and then crank down? You should get 70-80 pound and then the clutch starts clicking. If it goes over that it needs greasing. Remove crank handle and spring, and use a long blade scewdriver to put some white lithium grease into the ratchet clutch dogs along side the shaft.

[zeke]

Sounds like the clutch did not get greased. That was a problem on mine also. It means that it is cranking down on the project too hard. Have you tried putting a bathroom scale under the rollers and then crank down? You should get 70-80 pound and then the clutch starts clicking. If it goes over that it needs greasing. Remove crank handle and spring, and use a long blade scewdriver to put some white lithium grease into the ratchet clutch dogs along side the shaft.

Thanks Bobi, if it wasn't for you guys here, I would not be so persistent. Sure wish I was bragging about them, but I don't see that in the future.

My bathroom scale is not shaped appropriately it hits the rollers, even tried a board on top of it but doesn't work. This is where my blood pressure rises even more, I'll have to go buy another scale to have the proper tool to get a reading, then buy an IR thermometer to measure the heat in the flexshaft and whatever else. I am all about spending money when I can see some results, this has to be my most painful experience since conception. Sorry about the unneeded comments!

Could you share what brand scale is working for you? Do you think both problems are related to the lack of grease?

[Bubbabear]

Where are you at what is your shop temp. I will gaurentee if it is not at least 50 to 60 degrees then the crank will not work right
also if the head is to high look at the gear rod on the far side and there is a hole in the ord you can use a allen wrench or something and turn it a few times to get it started

[mtylerfl]

Where are you at what is your shop temp. I will gaurentee if it is not at least 50 to 60 degrees then the crank will not work right
also if the head is to high look at the gear rod on the far side and there is a hole in the ord you can use a allen wrench or something and turn it a few times to get it started

Hello Zeke,

So sorry to hear you're having problems (still).

When I read your post, I immediately thought, "That sure sounds like what could happen in a cold workshop." (as Bubbabear already mentioned).
Honest to goodness, I hope it is that simple. Sure would like to see you enjoy your machine!

[Kenm810]

Early last year, after one of my machines trips back from Texas.
I was having problems with the crank handle like you described.
I noticed the shipping box had a good amount of damage on one side and corner.
So thinking the unit had probably been dropped in transit, and might have been torqued or twisted in the fall.
I set it on a flat surface and just loosened the 4 corner bolts, Lightly moved the top of the machine back and forth a few times,
then retightened the bolts and all was well with the crank handle and the head of the machine moving up and down properly again.
I don't know if this will help your machine. It worked for mine.

[zeke]

It was 76 degrees when I tried using the new machine, not a cold weather issue. I'm going to try the grease job as suggested by Bobi, if that doesn't work, I'll try Kenm's suggestion. If that doesn't work, I'm thinking maybe it would make a good football or a contribution to a reef :).

Went out and got me a good scale to measure the roller pressure, more money little to no results, gotta love it. I think it's guys like me and many of you are the reason that LHR is NOT making things better, they know we're not going to let them win the worst quality battle ever fought.

I'm starting to think I might need to be committed thinking I might actually get to use one of these machines for it's intended purpose, anyone know of any good anti-depressants! Hopefully I will wake up from this bad dream in the near future!

[mtylerfl]

Hello Zeke,

Please let us know how Ken and/or Bobi's suggestions work out. I'm hoping one or both of those suggestions will get you going!

[zeke]

OK, the honey do's are out of the way. I'm going to attempt to work this out and let you know how I make out.

[zeke]

Can the clutch spacer washer (#152 in the attachment) be removed without removing the side cover? Any suggestions on how to remove it to put grease in as Bobi suggested?

I just discovered one issue, the side closeout assembly right (right cover) does NOT have spacers on either side on top of the vertical guide rods (under the side covers) and yet both spacers ARE existant on top of the rods on the side closeout assembly (left).

Assuming these spacers / washers should be resident on top of all the rods, how do I get 2 spacers from LHR without waiting 2 hours and 23 minutes on the phone and no one answering, which was my experience yesterday?

[Kenm810]

zeke,

I just saw you post about removing the clutch spacer washer.

I lubed mine with white lithium that comes in a spray can that has a thin red plastic tube to direct the lube to where you want it.
I used it because I didn't want to take the machine apart if wasn't necessary.
The only thing I had to be careful of, was not letting the lube run down into the key pad.
The lithium lube and loosening and re-tighting the 4 corner bolts did the trick for me.
Remember the clutch crank handle is slotted and has to be seated to work properly, before the handle screw is tightened.

Ps We must have been typing and posting at the same time.

My machine is a my shop, so I can't check to see if my spacer washer are in place or not.
I've had to go to the local hardware for my machine before. it saved me some time.

[zeke]

Ken, the spray grease sounds like the way to go didn't know they had it. A few questions.

Where did you get the spray?
Did you spray in between the washer and rod?
How did you ensure it didn't get on the keyboard?
How do you when there is enough in there?

I tried loosening the four bolts, however I was only able to move the side panels around a bit not the top. I then loosely finger tightened each bolt using the top of the ratchet head, then put a little torque on them. No change in my situation.

When you mentioned that you lightly moved the top of the machine back and forth a few times. Did you mean you stood over it with the bolts loose and sort of picked up the machine by it's top and shook it lightly, then retightened?

[Kenm810]

The one I have is made by SNAP
but Gunk and CRC both make also.
Most Hardware or auto part stores store carry it
It only needs a little, so use it sparingly along handle shaft and around the washer to keep it out of the key pad
As soon as the ratchet free up I knew that was enough ( a little goes along way )
I did pick up the machine by the top to give it a few (little) shakes to possibly re-aline it,
and see if there where any loose screws or parts in the bottom of the machine,
like there were the last time it came back from Texas. http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif

[crawls]

Mr. Zeke,

I'm sorry to here about the problems you've had with our machine(s). I know it's difficult getting through on the phones, but hang in there, we're adding more lines to alleviate this problem.

The problem you're having is that the clutch was not adequately greased, or you have too many spacers between the spring and the handle. Any time you have an axis go unstable (dance back and forth), the loading on that axis is too high and the control system can't keep up. So it goes unstable and jumps back and forth. This overloading is most common on the x-axis because an overload condition can result from several factors. These include tapered boards wedging themselves, no grease in clutch, and too many spacers.

Cold weather, drops during shipping, unleveled head, no grease on vertical guide post and lead screws leads to underloading. Underloading can result in switches not being compressed (Please Load Board message), board tracking sensor not tracking well (Please Check Board for Problems message or cutouts and carvings mis-positioned), and board sensor mis-reading (Please Check Board Sensor message). Note: both overloading and underloading can result in low board sensors reading.

These and others issues can arise when the head loading is not 75-85lbs. This is why it is so important to test this from time to time. I would recommend testing every 5-10 hours of cut motor time. Materials that produce fine dust particles such as MDF should be checked more often.

Hope this helps.

[orcasent]

The software sent with the machine did not work. Could not even register with it. Come to find out, it won't work with Safari. Crash Crash. What do Macs come with, Safari. What was up with that? Then I found out the software with the machine was outdated. Ok, I finally find out where to download a new one. Wouldn't download on Safari. No bother, I'll just download FireFox. Did that, tried to register again. Screen comes up to forward information. Options are to hit Back or Cancel, no submit button. Hit back, all information is lost, Start all over again. 4 hours later I am finally registered. Now on to the software. I can see that technical guys used to technical problems love the technical software that geeks design. They already know how it works so they don't know how to design it so a COMMON WOODWORKER CAN USE IT. The tutorials were so small I had to use two pairs of reading glasses together to see them. They were incomplete and assumed you already knew a lot about how to use them. I struggled for 9 hours trying to design a simple oval without any embellishments. Then i saved it and uploaded it. It said it would take over 3 hours to cut it. I knew that wasn't right. So back to the drawing board I went again. Results later.
Now, Time to take the machine out of the box. First thing, the head crank would not crank down onto the wood. By a full 2 inches it would not crank down onto the wood. By now iI am livid, but being the mechanical genius that I am I decided to tackle the problem. So I say "the vertical posts are out of alignment". The were and very much so. They were already dripping with grease right out of the box, so I knew that was not the problem. However in the process of righting the wrong I made a Horrific discovery after taking the bottom plate off. The bottom cross shaft for the raise and lower mechanism was held in place not by bearings or bushings, but by a V in the 1/8" plastic case and a screw and steel washer holding it up from the bottom. A veritable disc brake on the shaft and a point prone to very rapid wear out. I know these engineers did not send things into space that way. Not even a somewhat respectable Nylon Washer did they use. By the way, I did not need to loosen the vertical post bolts, The Chinese had made sure they were loose right out of the box. Aligned and tightened the head finally cranked all the way down, But only to 30#. I could only get it tighter by physically pushing down on the head as hard as I could while turning the down crank. There is so much friction in the system that I ran out of places to take it out. You, know, We Woodworkers are smart enough to use the tension meter on our band saws and not over tighten the blades. How about a simple tension meter instead of the slip clutch hand crank. It simply doesn't work.
The saga continues:
Shaking my head I put the bottom back on and proudly loaded my 14" X 20" board into the machine. Another 3 hours later the machine finally decided the board was there and started homing. What I got when it started cutting was no where near what I had drawn and uploaded. Anyway, that and the Software and the Mechanical problems were the last straws. I loaded it back into the box and called Sears to pick it up.
Being the exact market that LHR Technologies is looking for I would be happy to act as a non technological consultant for LHR. The machine is not durable enough to stand up to even moderate use.
I will bet that I am not the only "Woodworker who has been waiting for this for years" Who is frustrated and very disappointed. I will also bet that the Video Demonstration model was built a whole lot better than the one I got from China. Care to sell me one of those for $1699. However, Make it solid, Make it steel, make it work, and make it cost a lot more. I would still buy it. But not the way it is now.

[pkunk]

Well, another disgruntled user! I'm sorry that you can't make it work.. I've been a Beta tester on my Mac since the beginning and have never experienced any of your problems (thankfully). Maybe you should read the forums some more and try another machine. My Mac never crashes. What OS are you running?
I have several hundred trouble free hours on my machine which has earned me $$, made countless people happy with the presents I've made for them, & gives me hours of extra time on every cabinet job by drilling all my shelf pin holes.
:D

The software sent with the machine did not work. Could not even register with it. Come to find out, it won't work with Safari. Crash Crash. What do Macs come with, Safari. What was up with that? Then I found out the software with the machine was outdated. Ok, I finally find out where to download a new one. Wouldn't download on Safari. No bother, I'll just download FireFox. Did that, tried to register again. Screen comes up to forward information. Options are to hit Back or Cancel, no submit button. Hit back, all information is lost, Start all over again. 4 hours later I am finally registered. Now on to the software. I can see that technical guys used to technical problems love the technical software that geeks design. They already know how it works so they don't know how to design it so a COMMON WOODWORKER CAN USE IT. The tutorials were so small I had to use two pairs of reading glasses together to see them. They were incomplete and assumed you already knew a lot about how to use them. I struggled for 9 hours trying to design a simple oval without any embellishments. Then i saved it and uploaded it. It said it would take over 3 hours to cut it. I knew that wasn't right. So back to the drawing board I went again. Results later.
Now, Time to take the machine out of the box. First thing, the head crank would not crank down onto the wood. By a full 2 inches it would not crank down onto the wood. By now iI am livid, but being the mechanical genius that I am I decided to tackle the problem. So I say "the vertical posts are out of alignment". The were and very much so. They were already dripping with grease right out of the box, so I knew that was not the problem. However in the process of righting the wrong I made a Horrific discovery after taking the bottom plate off. The bottom cross shaft for the raise and lower mechanism was held in place not by bearings or bushings, but by a V in the 1/8" plastic case and a screw and steel washer holding it up from the bottom. A veritable disc brake on the shaft and a point prone to very rapid wear out. I know these engineers did not send things into space that way. Not even a somewhat respectable Nylon Washer did they use. By the way, I did not need to loosen the vertical post bolts, The Chinese had made sure they were loose right out of the box. Aligned and tightened the head finally cranked all the way down, But only to 30#. I could only get it tighter by physically pushing down on the head as hard as I could while turning the down crank. There is so much friction in the system that I ran out of places to take it out. You, know, We Woodworkers are smart enough to use the tension meter on our band saws and not over tighten the blades. How about a simple tension meter instead of the slip clutch hand crank. It simply doesn't work.
The saga continues:
Shaking my head I put the bottom back on and proudly loaded my 14" X 20" board into the machine. Another 3 hours later the machine finally decided the board was there and started homing. What I got when it started cutting was no where near what I had drawn and uploaded. Anyway, that and the Software and the Mechanical problems were the last straws. I loaded it back into the box and called Sears to pick it up.
Being the exact market that LHR Technologies is looking for I would be happy to act as a non technological consultant for LHR. The machine is not durable enough to stand up to even moderate use.
I will bet that I am not the only "Woodworker who has been waiting for this for years" Who is frustrated and very disappointed. I will also bet that the Video Demonstration model was built a whole lot better than the one I got from China. Care to sell me one of those for $1699. However, Make it solid, Make it steel, make it work, and make it cost a lot more. I would still buy it. But not the way it is now.

[orcasent]

Well, another disgruntled user! I'm sorry that you can't make it work.. I've been a Beta tester on my Mac since the beginning and have never experienced any of your problems (thankfully). Maybe you should read the forums some more and try another machine. My Mac never crashes. What OS are you running?
I have several hundred trouble free hours on my machine which has earned me $$, made countless people happy with the presents I've made for them, & gives me hours of extra time on every cabinet job by drilling all my shelf pin holes.
:D
You are one of the lucky ones who are both computer literate and haven't broken your machine yet.

[Jeff_Birt]

Anyway, that and the Software and the Mechanical problems were the last straws. I loaded it back into the box and called Sears to pick it up.

Sounds like you ordered it and had Sears deliver it? I ask as it seems there have been a handful of reports here lately about the various delivery companies really beating up the machines in transit. The sad part is that I'm not sure if there is a nickles worth of difference between any of the major shippers no days.

In one of my previous lives I repaired copiers, printers, computers etc. When we ordered new machines there was no telling what kind of condition it would be in when we got them. We got a new, large ~$8,000 copier in that had been completely flipped upside down shoving the document feeder through the platen glass. This was a large machine too, about 400 pounds worth. It was a total loss, but not all damage was that apparent. My point is that most of the symptoms you describe sound shipping related. Maybe CW/Sears should add ShockWatch stickers to all the boxes?

As for your computer issues: there are many Mac users around the forum, none of which have experienced your symptoms with Safari. While some websites do not work well on all browsers I would think that if yours is reasonably up to date it would work. I could also be something like a firewall or pop up blocker that Safari uses and Firefox does not. There was a gentleman the other day that had issues with upgrading from Designer 1.119 to 1.125 (Windows though), 1.125 installed but would not launch. Turned out part of his .NET framework had gotten corrupted. Most computer problems are something similar. But they sure are frustrating none the less.

The great thing about this forum is that most of the common problems folks have have already been asked and answered. A quick search will usually tell you what you need to know to get going. It sure beats hours of frustration.....

[pkunk]

You are one of the lucky ones who are both computer literate and haven't broken your machine yet.
Oh, I have broken my machine, but the fixes are easy and yes, I do know my Mac.:D

[orcasent]

Oh, I have broken my machine, but the fixes are easy and yes, I do know my Mac.:D
I am Quite curious as to how long you have had your machine and where it was made

[pkunk]

I am Quite curious as to how long you have had your machine and where it was made
I'm on my second machine because the first (Beta-Jan '06) finally was unrepairable as the parts were no longer available. My present machine is the same version as yours. The ones from Carvewright seem to have a slightly better sucess rate, but still operator error is the #1 source of problems. Once you get a machine tuned up they tend to work great. My tablesaw, took hours to get it just right. Been good for 18 years now, & it's alot simpler than a CW.

[orcasent]

I'm on my second machine because the first (Beta-Jan '06) finally was unrepairable as the parts were no longer available. My present machine is the same version as yours. The ones from Carvewright seem to have a slightly better sucess rate, but still operator error is the #1 source of problems. Once you get a machine tuned up they tend to work great. My tablesaw, took hours to get it just right. Been good for 18 years now, & it's alot simpler than a CW.
Mine came recently to Sears Via China, Thank you for your input

[pkunk]

Mine came recently to Sears Via China, Thank you for your input
Yours came from the same China as mine via Carvewright to Sears and then to you. They are the same machine. The problems & operator are different.:rolleyes:

[zeke]

FYI, thought I owed it to you guys to let you know my outcome on machine #4. I thought I sent this write up the other night, just before I got kicked off my computer, thought I wore the pants, sure!!!

This past week I returned machine #4 to Sears and put in another order. In addition to the problems mentioned here, I found a washer sitting in grease on the back of the crank bevel gear - 48 tooth. It would have been a matter of time before that was pulled in between the two gears associated with the crank and wreaked havoc in there. The thought of me encountering one problem after the other due to my experience out of the gate dawned on me.

I was torn between another new machine and sending to LHR under warranty, however I've read some stories about extra parts coming back from them as well. Go figure, I'll probably go that route if I have significant issues with this new one.

Until I get my new machine, I'm passing the time by writing a new book titled "If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any" and stocking up on every good luck charm I can get my hands on!!!