The new kids got a question?

[Dyna Rider]

Greetings, I have watched this forum for a several weeks now and have finally decided to share some of my thoughts (gather stones, light torches) and ask a few questions.

A little over two weeks ago I began playing with the trial version of CarveWright’s Designer. Even though I find the Software interesting and I like some of its capabilities, I am somewhat disappointed with its clip-art approach to design and lack of CAD functionality.

During a search of their web site I came across this in their download section under Updated FAQ. The following is from their document dated (Rev 1.04) 06/21

Can I import files from other CAD packages? (explanation of existing software concept, removed). That being said it is a very high priority to be able to support other standard 3-D formats. Advanced versions of the software will have the ability to import other file types such as DXF and STL.
When will the advanced software package be available?
The advanced software package is scheduled for release in 2007. The price has not been
determined yet.
I thought…..”DXF…. all right! I’ve got AutoCAD! Boy, will I have fun with this new toy! I’ll be able to do what I want in AutoCAD, and then import the file into …. “ Oh honey where’d you hide the credit card????

So, with some anticipation, I sent an e-mail to CarveWright. 2007 was quickly coming to an end and I wanted to learn the release date of the advance software. I received this reply from Alex Tauer CarveWright/CompuCarve Support Team:

"Thank you for your inquiry. At this time, we have no plans to create software that will be capable of importing DXF, STL, or G-code file types. We are currently only working improving the software that we currently have available. We hope that this information is both clear and helpful to you. Feel free to contact us if you have any further questions or issues.”
Well, that was somewhat disheartening, so back to the drawing board, so to speak.

Reading through the Software Handbook I came across a function called Rout Tool. It’s found under Contents, in Using Two Dimensional Geometry. (Quoted from handbook) “ The Rout Tool allows a figure to be broken into a number of sections, each one with an independently assignable bit or depth profile. Select the Rout Tool from the Tools toolbar, and then select one of the figures on the board.”). Ok, its not importing DXF, but there are some interesting possibilities here. Vector carving of free hand lettering comes to mind along with one or two others. The only problem is, I can’t find the tool in the software. I’m also unable to find the Trim Tool and Copy Offset Tool. Therefore, I’m a bit confused. How does removing functionality from the software package equate to Carvewright's assertion that they are working to improve the software?

For Christmas I received the CompuCarve. But at present I’m still in the midst of deciding…. take it out of the box and see what I can do with it or just pack it up and return it. Reading through several of the posts on this forum there seems to be quite a few glitches with the machine. Sear’s reluctance to offer an extend warranty coupled with CarveWrights 200 hour limitation on the warranty leads me to believe neither Sears nor CarveWright have any degree of confidence in the machines durability.

Surprising what a difference a few days can make. On 1/09/08 I returned then re-purchased the machine. I belong to the Craftsmen Club and the price had dropped. This time I was offered the extended warranty, which I purchased. I had read several posts concerning this agreement, so I called Sears Protection Agreement to inquire about receiving agreement documentation. I didn’t want to find out at a later date it covered my bench grinder. During my conversation with the representative she told me they were only given the authority to sell the agreement two days ago and in about three weeks I would be receiving the agreement documentation. I still have concerns about the machines durability. But if the agreement does cover the repairs, I’m not as worried about future costs. However, CarveWright’s reply regarding the software does leave me questioning the company’s ability and/or commitment. Oh yeah, the Forum….. Can anyone tell me why it requires an image verification input before each search? I have an aversion to typing!!

Bill

[Jeff_Birt]

Can anyone tell me why it requires an image verification input before each search? I have an aversion to typing!!



Make sure you are logged in before searching. Then the biggest pain in searching is not having less than three letters in a search term, which you can get around if your three letter term is enclosed in quotes with at least one other word. Both of these restrictions help keep the low life of the Internet from launching DOS attacks by repeatatly search for something like the letter 'e'.



A little over two weeks ago I began playing with the trial version of CarveWright’s Designer. Even though I find the Software interesting and I like some of its capabilities, I am somewhat disappointed with its clip-art approach to design and lack of CAD functionality.


While I understand where you are coming from here, I disagree a bit. I think the 3d clip art approach was brilliant. Creating a 3D project similar to what can be done in Designer in a typical CAD/CAM package is about 100 times as difficult and then with other machines you have to figure out how to create the tool paths, etc. I say this from experience.

If you are adept with 3D packages than you can already use your creations by exporting them as heightmaps (in PNG format) and importing that into Designer. LiquidGuitars, Micheal Tyler with these types of methods. I agree that being able to import some standard 3d formats would be nice but think the greatest limitation at this stage of the game is still (after owning one for more than a year) between our own ears.

I know that they are busy improving the software and the users guide is way out of date. Some of the items mentioned in it are not available.

Since you actually took the time to read the users guide I bet you will really enjoy the machine. It's important to read, read and read some more and start with smaller simpler projects and work your way up. You'll learn how to operate the machine, make a few mistakes and have a blast.

Also, I think you'll find that the forums 'Search' tool will be your best friend.

[mtylerfl]

... However, CarveWright’s reply regarding the software does leave me questioning the company’s ability and/or commitment. Oh yeah, the Forum….. Can anyone tell me why it requires an image verification input before each search? I have an aversion to typing!!

Bill

Hello Bill,

Welcome!

Glad to hear you decided to try the machine after all. I sincerely hope you will enjoy it.

Maybe not much help, but here's my personal take on the company...
I have a very good feeling about the company's commitment and abilities - especially after having the opportunity to get to know some of the folks there. They are "real people" who really care about their customers. I also believe they are trying their very best to make a good machine better along with software improvements and additions.

LHR reminds me of myself in some ways. I make "to do" lists that always seem to exceed the time frame in which I would like to get things done. Sometimes I have to re-prioritize my list (or even change it altogether) when other unforseen tasks and issues come up. I think that may have happened a few times for the company as well. Nevertheless, I know they are striving for excellence.

I believe at the end of the day, everything will get tended to, but the time-frame of 'when' is a variable.

As far as the image verification input, I don't see that when I do a search at my end, so I don't know what could be causing that. Are you registered and logged in before you perform a search?

Anyway, all the best to you and don't hesitate to ask for help if you need it. Everyone here is eager to see you enjoy your machine!

[TIMCOSBY]

vector stuff was probably an after thought for cut paths etc. i use cad every day to and designers cad is not up to par but it suffices for what most woodworkers would do.

[deemon328]

Hello! I can't believe your restraint in not opening the box. I had reservations too, but the box didn't last an hour before I got to it :)

Regarding the import issue: Even if the CW software could directly import DXF, we'd still have to do the work in another program. The way it is now with PNG just means that we have to go though an extra conversion step. The way I see it, I'm still doing all the work in my 3D package, then just running heightmaps through file formats to import into designer for the final layout.

I heard somewhere on the forums that 128dpi was the target resolution for PNG imports. I haven't paid close attention, but it seems like a better choice than 72dpi.

The only thing that I wish was possible was after bringing in your import and laying it out is that you could then export the result to a PTN file.

[mtylerfl]

Hello Dustin,

Couple ways to create a ptn from a png file...

If you buy the probe, it comes with the Pattern Editor software, which allows you to open a PNG (and other graphic file types) and save it to a ptn file (pattern).

I think it is well worth the investment and the scanning probe will add a lot more fun and productivity too!

Also, if you obtain Jeff Birt's CBPE (Carve Better Pattern Editor - shareware with sugg. donation of $10), you can open a png into it and save as a ptn file as well. Get it at the following link...
http://www.allcw.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=272&highlight=cbpe

[Dyna Rider]

Hi Jeff,… Michael
Once I logged on the image verification input was no longer required, thanks.

Jeff
I find the clip art approach interesting, but I’m not quite willing to say it is brilliant. Now if you were making reference to it’s simplicity to create embellishments, then that I would agree with. It allows one to create these in a simple and quick manner, but it lacks flexibility and power. If it allowed one to select individual elements from a pattern or from several different patterns and develop a new pattern. Or if it allowed one to develop patterns from a library of elements where their paths and profiles could be manipulated and then combined into a new pattern, then this I might call brilliant. Now it does allow one to merge patterns, but they are not merged, they are still individual patterns it is just a manipulation of the patterns Z axis.

Michael
I understand and can relate to your point. It’s hard to remember one’s original intention was to drain the swamp when he or she is up to their *** in alligators. But at the end of the day ones intentions are just that; intentions. Now in the software I find a lack of documentation. For example no where do I find an explanation of the height feature for Text. There is one for patterns and I believe it works the same for text. But its not documented. I believe a lack of, or poorly documented software shows a disheveled mind set. And this will definitely affect the ability to add functionality. Most of the time will be spent trying to improve existing functions and correcting software problems.

Hello Tim
I not quite sure what you said, but to me it sounded like… Although Designer is not great, it is capable of doing what most woodworkers would want to do with it so in that sense it’s adequate. I sort of think of myself as average, and I find the software lacking for what I would like to do. I was hoping to do a little more then just the cut and paste that my seven-year-old granddaughter is capable of doing.

Hi Dustin
“Restraint” that’s not quite how I would describe it, but thanks. Since this machine does not function in the cold and my wife’s adamant about not letting me test run it on the kitchen table, I’m sort of limited. What you have called restraint is more of an optimization of movement with a desire for a conservation of energy, my grandparents would have said “Lazy”. I didn’t want to unpack it just to repack it. It’s is out of the box now and I spent a couple of hours looking it over and I did adjust the in/out feed tables. There is some movement of the Z-Truck in the X axis direction. Which I believe is removed by an eccentric cam adjustment in the top roller bearing. But there seems to be no service manual for this machine or one that I can find. If it wasn’t for the cost it would be sitting on the kitchen table disassembled….. now that’s restraint.

Thanks for the replies
Bill

[liquidguitars]

LiquidGuitars, Michael Tyler with these types of methods

Jeff, just to be clear here I thought Micheal T was more of a probe guy. Michael are you using 3D modeling or scaning?


If it wasn’t for the cost it would be sitting on the kitchen table disassembled….. now that’s restraint.

Bill, not to be a ***, this is what it takes sometimes.


I find the software lacking for what I would like to do.

What do you need to make that designer and a good art program would be lacking?? :)


Now it does allow one to merge patterns, but they are not merged, they are still individual patterns it is just a manipulation of the patterns Z axis.

Guess Adobe will be running to change Photoshop now...



I think some of the confusion regarding DFX is by the format, most people work with 2D polylines.. Polyline is not the the way to go when topo carving on the Carvewright. 2d polylines lines still can be translated to the CW! but in order to make the most of the carvewright's 3D brain, use a water tight STL grade DXF or OBJ.. hopefully quad based:) Then after rendering you will have a spot on carve. Trust me, I know as all of my guitars parts start this way now.

LG

[TIMCOSBY]

to do vector wise in designer that would require importing an autocad dxf?
do a search for "spoon carving" now thats vector woodworking at its best.

i'm on an older version of autocad but i think the new version can create a jpeg or bitmap (raster) of the drawing. you could import that into designer. and there are some free conversion programs that turn dwg's into raster jpegs.

[Dyna Rider]

Hi LG


Bill, not to be a ***, this is what it takes sometimes.


I enjoy taking things apart to see how they function. But I don’t believe it should be a requirement on a new machine that has a label stating “Q.C. PASSED”



What do you need to make that designer and a good art program would be lacking?? :)

Guess Adobe will be running to change Photoshop now...


You’ll need to be a little more detailed, as I’m unclear to the question you’re asking or meaning you trying to convey.



Hi Tim

to do vector wise in designer that would require importing an autocad dxf?
do a search for "spoon carving" now thats vector woodworking at its best.



I did a search, the only post it returned was your post here in this thread.


Bill

[liquidguitars]

I find the software lacking for what I would like to do.

I think the software is a good fit for most of us and with new updates on the way the software can be even better.

What did you need to make with the carvewright that you find the software is lacking. details?



LG

[Dyna Rider]

Hi LG

I don’t have a real need, if I did I would have done my homework a little better and purchased a machine that would have fulfilled my needs. One thing I would liked, is to take a AutoCAD solid model, add registration markers, slice the model into section so each section has two markers, lay each section out on a board, vector cut the sections and then assemble the pieces into a real world representation of my 3-D CAD model, method similar to stereolithography.

I visited your web site, impressive work; care to explain how you modeled the guitar neck?

Bill

[liquidguitars]

Hello Bill, Most of the major 3D programs will talk to the Carvewright.

You have the right idea.. once the 3D model is
made you can cut that model into .8" slices and lay them flat to render.

lets let some of the other pattern makers explain how they do it. :)

LG