Paths disappearing!

[kwyjibo67]

OK, I did a search and found a similar issue with someone running on a MAC. Just wondering if anybody has a solution for this. Here goes:

In designer, I have an .mpc that has several cut paths. I wanted to duplicate everything on the board so a selected everything and did a copy and paste. Now all the cut paths have disappeared from the design view. They are still there in the carve list, just not showing on the board. I tried closing Designer and opening it up again just to see if that would help. It didn't. I added a .ptn just to see what would happen, and that showed up. Here's the interesting part. If you select all the Cut Paths in the carve list, the grouping is defined by a very small area in the upper left hand corner (looks like a little yellow star). When you include the .ptn the grouping expands to include the .ptn.

Looks like a software bug to me. I attached the .mpc so you can see what happened.

Running 1.125

[MetalCutter]

Looks like a software bug to me. I attached the .mpc so you can see what happened.

Running 1.125

Hi kwyjibo67,

I won't comment on LHR's quality assurance program, but I wouldn't have one either if I had customers to use as beta testers. I loaded V1.125 last week. I have a couple of projects that I programmed in V1.120 and V1.123. I've run them before and I opened them in V1.125 this A.M. to edit my board size. Well guess what? Yes, it looked like some cutpaths went away but I found them "centered, horizonally and vertically" 43" off the board (zoomed out to find them). I couldn't get them back to the board no matter what I tried. I reported this to LHR Software Support by e-mail as they requested when I talked to them. I uninstalled V1.125 and went back to V1.124 but the programs are still messed up.:mad: No responce or read confirmation on my e-mail. I think they went home. I think I'll start charging them for my time, frustration and machine down time. I spent a lot of programming time 'dailing in' those projects to get them to run sweet and now that time is wasted and my machine is down until I fix the programs and maybe make more custom kindling. B.S. if you ask me. Reminds me of Microsoft.

Happy Scrapping,

Rick

[deemon328]

I've also had that problem with cut paths. It's not all the time, but sometimes when I open a project with a cut path, it will be somewhere other than where I left it when I saved. I can't move it or recenter, though I can drag the corners to resize it.

I have no solutions, but wanted you to know that it's not just you that has the problem.

[Jeff_Birt]

Well I have seen the problems that some other folks have had with some cut-paths in 1.123+ but have yet to have it happen to me. The problems that other folks have reported were created with 1.123+ as well so it seems the problem is limited to some 1.123+. I've also not had any problems with any of my older files. I understand that CW is looking into this issue now.

[kwyjibo67]

Thanks for the sanity check! I don't know how many times I tried creating this project. I finally reverted back to 1.120 just to get it done. By the way, another interesting "bug" I came up against with this project was that no matter how big I made the board I kept getting a compile error that the cut path was too close to the far left edge. Normally when I get this warning, I'll resize the board about an inch and move the cut path a little to the right. On this one, no matter how long or wide I made the board it kept giving me this warning and then my cut paths would disappear. That was all in 1.125. Guess I'll be working in 1.120 until the next patch. I really like some of the changes they made to Designer, but after working on a project for a couple of hours to have it get screwed up by the software is annoying. And yes, I do save the project every couple of minutes so I don't lose any information. However, I think there is an automatic save when you upload to the card. I could be wrong, but at one point what I thought was a "good" saved version opened up corrupted.

Anyway, here's hoping they get a new patch out soon to fix this!

[MetalCutter]

Jeff,

Since you're a moderator and, I'm assuming, you have a closer relationship with LHR than I do, perhaps you can get some sort of ETA on a solution or at least a causation. I have other projects that I'm afraid to make any changes to out of fear of corruption. The last problem* I had with this SYSTEM was shoved under the carpet or fell through the cracks and I'm still working around it because it was "forwarded to engineering" and that was that. Can you help?

Rick

*http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=4820&highlight=error

[deemon328]

kwyjibo67,

Check this thread and PDFs inside for your answers regarding the Auto-jig error.

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=5543

[drumsound]

I've been having this problem from day one with Designer 1.123, 1.124, and still with 1.125. This is the 3rd thread that I've been on to try to find a solution because Software support has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help with this problem. I've contacted them 6 times, talked to 3 "Software Engineers" and still nothing. The forum seems to be the only option for troubleshooting help with this. I've spent at least 20 hours in designer trying to figure out exactly, when and what I'm doing, when the problem occurs.

I have had this problem happen at seemingly random times however, I have found that there are 2 specific operations that ALWAYS cause this problem on my system. I don't do a lot of "carving" with my machine, mostly just cutting out shapes. This problem only happens to outlines that have been created from any, and all, patterns. It doesn't happen with ovals, squares or lines that I've placed on the workpiece, they always remain visible.

The 1st operation that causes outlines/cut paths to disappear:

If I place a pattern on the workpiece, select "Outline", then "Save" the file, and then select the outline that was created from a pattern, the outline will disappear as soon as I select it on the workpiece, it doesn't matter if theres a "cut path" in it or not. The outlines still remain in the "Carvings List".

kwyjibo67 wrote in his first post:
"If you select all the Cut Paths in the carve list, the grouping is defined by a very small area in the upper left hand corner (looks like a little yellow star)."
This happens EVERY TIME I SAVE THE FILE AND THEN TRY TO SELECT THE OUTLINES/CUT PATHS THAT WERE CREATED FROM A PATTERN.

The ONLY way I've found to avoid this problem is by not saving the file until I know that I'm completely done editing the outline, or once I do save, I make sure not to select that outline EVER again. Obviously this goes against everything I've ever learned about computers, I always want to save my work but if saving my work causes me to lose information then I wont till I'm done.

The 2nd operation that causes this problem:

OK, lets say I've successfully finished designing a file with all of my outlines and cut paths still viewable and I'm ready to upload to the card. If I get the "Auto Jig" message when uploading, no matter what option I select "Ignore, Manual Jig, Auto Jig" after I've selected one of those options, the outlines on my workpiece disappear EVERY TIME.
The only way I've found to avoid getting the "Auto Jig" message is to always leave .75" between your Cut Paths and the top edge of the workpiece, as well as leaving 3.5" between your Cut Paths and the ENDS of your workpiece. I know you're supposed to be able to design your pieces right to the ENDS of your workpiece and make your actual board 7" longer but I ALWAYS GET THE "AUTO JIG" MESSAGE IF I DON'T LEAVE .75" FROM THE TOP OF THE WORKPIECE AND 3.5" FROM BOTH ENDS OF THE WORKPIECE.

I'm sure some of you will insist that this problem will happen with other variables and different circumstances, I HAVE ALSO. I've had it happen after I've saved the file with it looking just fine, closed it, then reopen it only to find the outlines gone, without even touching it, I can't figure that one out yet, but the 2 operations that I described above ALWAYS cause this problem to happen.

Try what I've described and see if you have the same results, I'm interested to hear what other variables people have found.

[DocWheeler]

DrumSound,

I think I tried to do as you described, once with a bit selected and once with just the path. I was able to save and bring them both into Designer, I can not replicate the problem.

Do you assign a bit to the cutpath?

[deemon328]

I tried the first operation that you suggested. I placed shell2 on the board, then outline pattern,then saved. I could still select both the patten and the outline. I tried closing the program and reopening the file, and things still seemed normal.

I'm using windows version 1.125 of designer.

I didn't try the second operation you suggested because my memory card is out in the shop, but that's more where my problems have occured in the past.

[SawdustSteve]

I am experiencing a similar problem... both with projects created in older versions of Designer and in 1.125.

My problem seems to occur when I upload to the card. I watch my cut paths disappear and there is nothing I can do to get them back. Luckily, I am fairly proficient with my scrollsaw!

If someone comes up with a good "fix", I would love to hear about it.

[Jeff_Birt]

I have been able to duplicate the problem with Case#1. Evidently the save process is mangling the outline data. I think CW has this on their radar now.

I think this type of bug report is the best help we can give them. Speaking from my own experience working on various pieces of equipment over the years, my job as the repairman was always much easier when the machine had a good operator. If something went wrong they could tell you exactly what they were doing, what buttons they pressed (and in what order). I've seen software bugs in machine controller that only occurred if you happened to select a certain set of features in a particular order. Needless to say it was tough for the MFG to track down as they had to figure out as anytime they selected the same features there was no failure.

[DrBob]

I was Playing with the file and i think that the objects wont cut through because they are on the back of the board, i deleted all but the one that showed up on the back of the board as dotted line, copyed it and deleted the original and pasted it on the front and did the cut through fine.
hope this is the probem solved
Bob

[deemon328]

I was messing with trying to recreate the problem. I attached the file if you want to test it out.

1. Add shell 2 to your board. Center it
2. Outline pattern
3. Cut Path, flip cut.
4. Save
5. Edit board settings, change thickness of board. I went from 1.0 to 0.5

Bam, no more cut path.

If you don't save on step 4 and change the thickness, you can still see the cut path.

[drumsound]

deemon328,

Relative to Case #1
Try doing the same thing but without step #3, adding a Cut Path.
My problem happens to the outline, even without a cut path in it.
Once I've save it and then try to select the "Outline" again, BAM! no more outline on the workpiece, the bounding box where it used to be is there but the actual outline is gone.

[deemon328]

Ok, I omitted the cut path this time. Here's what I did:

1. Add shell 2 to board. Center it
2. Outline pattern
3. Save

Everything works normally at this point. Can select the path and the shell from the board and from the carving list. I closed and re-opened the file and everything was fine. I had to add the next step to make it disappear.

4. Edit board settings, change thickness of board. I went from 1.0 to 0.5

After this step, the outline disappears.

[drumsound]

Well, that's a variable I haven't encountered yet. Are you PC or MAC?
I'll try the thickness change too.

[deemon328]

PC, Windows XP SP2, Designer 1.125

[drumsound]

Sure enough, it does it when I change the thickness, immediately, without me even selecting the outline.

My case #1

If I save the file, as soon as I select the outline from the workpiece and try to resize, or reposition it, when I let go of it the actual outline of the shell, not its bounding box, vanishes. It looks as if theres still an outline there but it's just its bounding box, no more outline inside of it.

[deemon328]

That last bit of info was the magic phrase. I was only trying to select the outline on the board and from the carving list. As soon as I moved the outline, sure enough, it disappeared when I let go of the mouse button.

Further info: there's no way for me to select the outline on the board. Even dragging the mouse over the entire project to select everything doesn't work. I can highlight the bounding box in the carving list but can't manipulate it in any way.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Dustin,

With the carve list turned on can you left click on the outline and control click on any other items you want too???

AL

[deemon328]

I can only select the path in the carving list, not anywhere on the board.

I can CTRL+click the shell in the carving list, and I can also have the path selected(the bounding box anyway) and CTRL+click on the shell on the board.

When I do either of these and have both the shell and the path selected, there's this big out of place dotted yellow box with arrows pointing out of the ends of it surrounding the two items. The yellow box extends from the bottom right of the shell(which I have centered on the 8"x8" virtual board) to the top left corner of the virtual board.

[Durtdawber]

I just wanted to add my .02 cents...

I had the "path disappearing" problem show up tonight on a project I was doing for my son. I created a paddle for him to give to one of his frat brothers. I had the path disappear both when saving and re-opening then also when I tried to upload the project to the card. I am still on 1.124.

I was able to make the problem go away by increasing the distance from the path to the edge of the board. I had plenty of room on the top and bottom but had to add 4" to the left and right (3.5" would have probably fixed it but I wanted to make sure). I had read this trick in this thread and it seems to work.

Hope they fix it in 1.126.

[MetalCutter]

To all who are finding V1.125 to be a release disaster. I feel your pain. I started this thread and still haven't heard squat from LHR concerning this issue or the issue of the machine measureing error. They haven't responded to my email (which I sent at thier request), in fact, since I requested a read reply on the original email and haven't received a confirmation, I don't believe it's even been read. In addition, since I was unable to work around the dissapearing path problem, I reloaded V1.120 and, to put icing on the cake, lost all the patterns I had imported prior to this fiasco. Also any .MPC's I saved in V1.124 or V1.125 are not downward compatible so they are unusable.

I've spent thousands of hard earned dollors and hundreds of hours and have no means to recoupe any loss and that's what it looks like to me.

LHR: Get off the stick and resolve these issues. Support your current customer base or you won't have a future one. This is a basic business fact.

I'm done.

[Termite]

First of all I guess I have been one of the lucky ones as far as my Compucarve goes. I have replaced one board sensor and one stage 2 drive gear and haven't had to send it back for any repairs. I have had small problems but they have been user error. I have 120 hrs cut motor time and 235 hrs on time on my machine and have had it for 10 months.
As of last night I am now feeling everyone else's pain with the outline and cut path issue's. I use outline and cut path with almost all my carvings and in doing a new design from scratch last night using V1.125 I was unable to get the outline and cut path to work properly. The cut path was all over the place. I would outline and have 5 items show up but the cut path would only work on 2 outlines when they where highlighted. I would delete the outlined items and then click on outline again and would get 12 items show up in the carving list. The cut path wouln't work on any of the outlines. I tried a couple of more times and had different items show up on the carving list. Cut path would work on some but not all. Frustrated at this time I gave up.
My concern at this time is I am at the mercy of Carvewright to resolve the issue's everyone is having (unless it is something I am doing wrong). I am out of business until the software department figures out what is going on.
Has anyone had a response from Carvewright about these problems?

Dan

[Jeff_Birt]

CW is working on the problem, see post#4 of this very thread......

[TerryT]

Termite,
Try temporarily setting depth at .8 then outline again. Reset the depth after you make the cut line. I had one last night that I did that on.

[HighTechOkie]

While trying to reproduce the disappearing paths bug, I also noticed that once you select the outline path from the cut list(as the path itself is no longer visible), and try to center that bounding box using the Center Vertical and Center Horizontal buttons, causes the bounding box to jump around but NOT centered. If you turn off center, and re-center, the object will jump again.

My suspicion is that its related to the new code to detect carving limitations.

Rob

[HighTechOkie]

Termite, have you been able to outline your pattern properly before 1.125? It may be a pattern issue. Please post the ptn if you can so we can take a look.

Rob

[Termite]

I never had a problem with outline or cut path before this. I was trying to do some pieces for an Arts and Craft style fireplace mantle and ran in to this problem. I have an existing pattern for one I did using V1.120 and I am going to try this one using V1.125 and see what happens. Not much time to work on the problem but when I get a chance I will play around with it. I can't post the design I was working on because I got so frustrated I forgot to save it. When I get a chance I will do the design again and if it is not user error I will post it. If it is something I am doing wrong I will post my mistakes.

Dan

I know, I'm bad, always forgetting to save project as:

[yatrgatr]

just wondering if there is any fix yet to the disapearing cut path?

[yatrgatr]

just wondering if there is any fix yet to the disapearing cut path?

any fix yet????:confused:

[twehr]

I didn't start working with 1.125 until the Christmas rush was done and I finished up the list of scan projects that was stacking up. So the last week has been more about the actual designer software. Guess what, I am having the same issues with disappearing outlines.

I have identified a few circumstances that seem to regularly cause the problem. Avoiding these circumstances MAY help reduce the instances of the problem.


1. Moving (including centering, etc) the outline after it has been created.
2. Copying and pasting the outline.
3. Doing ANYTHING with multiple items selected.

I won't say that these will cause the problem 100% of the time, but they seem to cause it often enough that I just try to stay away from them.

It takes more planning (always doing outlines last, for example), and sometimes some deletion and rework to get things the way I want, but I have had better luck when I avoid these operations.

[cmorlier]

These problems should be resolved in Version 1.126 as described here: http://www.carvewright.com/forum/showthread.php?p=42224