loose bits and chuck

[dougsnash]

Hey guys, here is another question for you more expirienced Carvewright/compucarve users. I now have 20 hrs 59 min on the odometer. My bits no longer seem to be fitting into the chuck tightly. After carving a 11X14 sign today, the carving bit has developed a definite wear pattern and two noticable dimples where it is clamped into the chuck. While the cutting bit has no noticable wear pattern to it, I can wiggle the tip about 1/8" from side to side with the bit installed in the machine. Also, when it cut the sign to size, the cut slot was more like 3/16" wide rather than the 1/8" inch it has typically been.

I have been pretty careful about keeping the machine clean. I keep it vacuumed clean after every use and even stop a project in prgress if I see a high buildup of shavings. I also keep the chuck and bits lightly oiled by spaying with white Lithium grease and then wiping off the excess with both the bits and the chuck.

Does this sound like my chuck and bits are toast? Next question, is this usual to wreck a chuck and bits after only 21 hrs? Yes, I've primarily been carving red oak, but this seems rather quick to me.

Doug MacDonald
Compucarve Newbie
NW Ontario, Canada

[Jeff_Birt]

Take a small mirror and look up into the chuck. It's very likely you have some sawdust packed up in there. I use a dry spray lube on the chuck and adapters and blow the chuck out every couple of projects. The adapters will develop dimples as there wear, usually the cutting bit seems to wear faster for me.

[liquidguitars]

the carving bit has developed a definite wear pattern and two noticable dimples where it is clamped into the chuck.

It's time to remove the bit from the bit adapter and replace with a new or non damaged bit adapter from Cravewright or Sears, just $4.95 US...
I use Blue locktite on the shank and the alan heads.

LG

[hotpop]

Sorry,if this opens a can of worms but I don't agree that bit adapters should need to be replaced every 20 hours or so. I am experiencing the same chuck and adapter problems too.

I've been a tool and machine designer for over 35 years. It's my opinion that LHR has made some poor choices when specifying the steel and hardness for their bit adapters. The dimples and wear marks on the adapters just shouldn't happen. The adapters appear to be a low carbon steel and not heat treated at all. Probably given a black oxide dip and shipped with the machine. A tool of this type should be made of medium carbon steel like 4140 and hardened to 40-45Rc.

As for the Quick Change Chuck, plastic? You got to be kidding. Show me one tool on the market the uses plastic to hold a cutting tool. Steel man, steel, steel, steel.

Personally I would prefer to put a bit in a collet and use two wrenches to tighten it just like my routers. Never had a bit creep or wobble in my routers.

[liquidguitars]

HotPop,

Better the adapters go bad then the chuck I think.

LG

[rjustice]

Sorry,if this opens a can of worms but I don't agree that bit adapters should need to be replaced every 20 hours or so. I am experiencing the same chuck and adapter problems too.

I've been a tool and machine designer for over 35 years. It's my opinion that LHR has made some poor choices when specifying the steel and hardness for their bit adapters. The dimples and wear marks on the adapters just shouldn't happen. The adapters appear to be a low carbon steel and not heat treated at all. Probably given a black oxide dip and shipped with the machine. A tool of this type should be made of medium carbon steel like 4140 and hardened to 40-45Rc.

As for the Quick Change Chuck, plastic? You got to be kidding. Show me one tool on the market the uses plastic to hold a cutting tool. Steel man, steel, steel, steel.

Personally I would prefer to put a bit in a collet and use two wrenches to tighten it just like my routers. Never had a bit creep or wobble in my routers.

Bit adapters check about 8-10 Rc.... probably 12L14 CRS.... The 1/8 bit adapters I make are 4140... 30-32 Rc and i have yet to see any evidence of wear in them.
The QCC inside workings isn't plastic... it appears to be a cast steel with a stamped steel shell around it... not extremely robust, but not plastic inside.... You will see a retrofit chuck comming in the near future from me. One of the designs I will be offering will use the ER series collets...

Ron

[cabnet636]

yea to stronger collets and to er's
sooonn!!! but not sooner than they are ready!!
thanks
cabnet

[dougsnash]

I spoke with Carvewright today about my worn bit adapter. The guy I talked to said that likely my slightly worn bit adapter was going to be fine. He recomennded dripping some 3 in 1 oil around the top of the chuck and letting it soak in and then cleaning it up with compressed air. He said as long as the tip of the bit doesn't wobble I can continue to use the bit adapter as is. The wear spots from the locking balls should not affect the function of the adapter.

One complaint I have though is, they only ship out parts via UPS. If they would ship via USPS priority mail, I could get my package after work from my US post office box. If they ship UPS, I have to take an hour off work to go to the US side UPS depot and pick up my package during the morning.

Doug MacDonald
NW Ontario, Canada

[Ron@Wood-Wonders.com]

Ron ... hopefully your retrofit chuck is not too far into the future. I've had 3 bit adapters come out of the Quick Change during operation. The latest last night and this time the Z-Truck got broken. I'm not sure at this point if I feel confident in using the machine with this chuck.

... has anyone else had a bit adapter come out?

[dougsnash]

I haven't had any bits come out during running but I think it was pretty close to happening. I talked to Carvewright and they are sending me a new QC Chuck and the wrench to replace it. They are not replacing the two bit adapters that I have messed up with this chuck. Oh well, not the end of the world in my humble opinion. I had already odered new ones from Sears anyway.

A suggestion to Carvewright, start including the chuck removal tools with the machine. This way the user will be able to remove the chuck on a regular basis and clean, lubricate, and inspect the QC Chuck. If we are going to be stuck with this fragile chuck assembly, we need to be able to maintain it.

Doug MacDonald
Carvewright Newbie
NW Ontario, Canada

[liquidguitars]

The big prob is removing the OEM QC from the OEM spindel as it is guled with some type of evil glue that never ever whats to come loose even if you nuke it from space!

the good news is once you replace the damaged or worn QC with the right amout of locktight all will be well.

http://liquidguitars.com/saltdot/QCmadnessR002.jpg

[chipseverywhere]

I have had several adaptors wear out and some have come flying out. When the last one came out it broke the right bottom bearimg off the Z-truck so back to Texas it went. I have be toying with the idea of a collet also.
On removing the chuck I took a heavy 7/8 wrench and ground the head down thinner to go on the chuck. Then I heat the wrench with a propane torch to about 450 degrees. Wearing a pair of leather gloves I then place the heated wrench on the chuck nut wait about 1 minute or so and the heat from the wrench transfers to the nut allowing you to unscrew the chuck with out heating thing that you don't want heated. If it was installed with red loctite you may have to heat the wrench hotter and wait longer but remember the heat is also going up the spindle and heating the bearing which could lead to bearing failure.

[hetzerguitars]

>One complaint I have though is, they only ship out parts via UPS. If they would ship via USPS priority mail, I could get my package after work from my US post
Odd, now they told me they only ship USPS. I ordered a new QC and requested a tracking # and they said they didn't have one. "Everything goes out USPS." That was 5 day ago. Still no QC.

Speaking of which, is that a reverse thread? I am getting ready to remove this one and I want to make sure I don't break it worse than it already is

- Jim

[rjustice]

The outer shell of the Chuck is overmolded with plastic to hold it together. Avoid using a torch to remove it or you will nuke it. Be sure to use just a DRIP of BLUE Loctite when you re-assemble. Red requires much more heat to break down and is considered permanent!

Check out this thread (http://www.carvewright.com/forum3/showthread.php?t=4142&highlight=removal+tool)for QC Removal tools.... Very concise instructions are included for successfull removal and replacement of the chuck

Happy Carving,

Ron

[hotpop]

hetzerguitars -

The chuck has a common right hand thread.

[Grunt]

Good Evening,
Well after getting my third machine and only running 2 hours and 19 minutes on it, the x-axis went out last Friday. Recieved the replacement gears today and installed them and all seemed well enough, started a new project and 15% into job it tossed the tool. Cleaned, oiled and checked everything twice and restarted machine, ran the "Ghost Cut" and as soon as the bit made contact with the "FRESH MEAT" it wailed it out of the chuck again. I managed to call Carvewright before they closed and could not get a tech, only customer service. I guess it is back off to Sears for 1 more go around with the exchange in hopes that I will get a good one. I really enjoy working with this machine and I so badly want it to at least give me my monies worth just for the hours of watching it "RUN" but damn it wont stay going. Oh well Rome was'nt built in a day I guess I can try another, good luck to all and thanks for the help. I'm not going to give up yet. "I'll be back"
Grunt

[Kenm810]

Hang in there Grunt,
I want to see more of your projects and photos one of these days,
Maybe I'll even swap ya some cast acrylic for piece of your maple.http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

[Grunt]

Ken810.
Funny you should say cast acrylic? thats what I was cutting today when she crashed again. Dont worry Ken if you need some Maple I've got plenty and I will most certainly share. One of these days I need to get back to your shop, I must say it has got to be one of the most interestingly,cool places I have ever been to in my life. Kinda cool seeing behind the curtains, if you will.
Thanks for the moral support and if you need anything drop me a PM.
Grunt

[Grunt]

Hey kenm810,
By the way, I found a place today to get scrap pieces of corian reasonably, its on 8 mile near merriman. Let me know if you need some and we can go to get it, they did not have much bone and/or white but lots of different colors, and I have been thinking about glueing together some for a contrasted look. Let me know what you think.
Grunt