New Version 1.124 Update Available [Archive]

BobHill

12-08-2007, 11:42 AM

Jim,

Although I haven't done any carving yet with version 1.124, I have played with it extensively in Designer and find it's working great. No changes from how things worked previously as far as my old MPC files and I can make new ones just fine. If I double click a PTN file it automatically opens in my Pattern Editor (in Designer, Open, be sure you choose either PTN or MPW for file format, then double click on either PTN or MPW file from where you have it stored on your system). If it's a PTN file that I made, then it opens with both views into Pattern Editor. If the PTN was NOT made by me (even the old ones that I've collected) it opens with the usable view, but not the editable view (as an Imported PTN file). I have opened also a MPC file, but since I don't have a MPC file that someone else has made, I haven't one to try and at this time, it would have to be sent or received by email, or wait ... let me zip it and see/ ... that works. SO if someone wishes to try, I've uploaded a Boomerang.mpw file in ZIP format here. Just unzip it and try it in your 1.124 Pattern Editor.

Bob

liquidguitars

12-08-2007, 11:59 AM

loads but looks a little strange.

LG

BobHill

12-08-2007, 01:22 PM

That maybe because the design is a little strange, L.G.
Bob

Skyhawk

12-08-2007, 02:28 PM

I just upgraded to version 1.124. I have the ability to import all of my old patterns (as well as ones that others have uploaded), and I have the ability to edit all of them, not just the ones that I created.

If you plan on upgrading, and have patterns that you created or have downloaded, and you have the probe (which unlocks the pattern editor) do this:

1. Prior to your upgrade, open each pattern - click "Save As" and save it as a .MPW.
2. After all of your patterns have been converted upgrade to 1.124 (or 3).
3. Double clicking on the .MPW files will open them in the pattern editor, allowing you to make changes to pattern...

Keep in mind...once you do upgrade and download a pattern (even if it was made in 1.120) you won't be able to modify it - you will be able to modify ones that were previously converted!

Skyhawk

12-08-2007, 02:29 PM

Oooh, that last post made me a senior...I guess I'm getting old!

BobHill

12-08-2007, 02:45 PM

That was a good idea, Jim. Too bad I didn't think of that prior to upgrading to version 1.124. But, I'm not so sure that I really need to do that much editing of the patterns I had to go back. They are all as usuable now as they were in 1.120 or 1.121 in any case. Welcome to the world of the ARRP <g>

Bob

liquidguitars

12-08-2007, 03:35 PM

That maybe because the design is a little strange, L.G.

:rolleyes: my bad :)

LG

CustomWestCoast

12-08-2007, 09:14 PM

I guess LHR is at it again. Providing updates without explaining what the update 1.124 entails (unless I missed their official posting of the upgrade).

That's how the mess with the 1.123 got started leaving customers and supporters guessing and no one from LHR to explaing the upgrade. You would think LHR would post exactly what upgrade improvements are contained in the version that they want you to download.

TIMCOSBY

12-08-2007, 11:25 PM

Are you able to open MPW's and edit them? Or does this upgrade that too? I was hoping to convert my existing patterns to MPW's and reimport them after the upgrade so that I can still edit them...

i would use jeffs program to convert the ptn to a png file. that way no matter what changes they make to the file formats you would be able to edit the design and reimport and share the png with others. with the png file you don't need the pattern editor to edit it.

BobHill

12-08-2007, 11:27 PM

Jeff's Pattern Editor won't work with PTN files created in 1.124 yet. They are working on making it so, but as of this moment, it won't.

Bob

BearlyRich

12-09-2007, 01:15 AM

I don't post much but thought I would give a thanks here for the users updating other users.

If I hadn't been gone for two weeks, I would just have blindly updated to 1.123. Thank goodness I didn't! Now it looks like I won't "update" to 1.124 either.

Hopefully LHR will realize their major mistake and post an update that will make us all happy...

Thanks again for the info updates!

kwyjibo67

12-09-2007, 01:21 AM

Jeff's Pattern Editor won't work with PTN files created in 1.124 yet. They are working on making it so, but as of this moment, it won't.

Bob

Bob, can you clarify who "They" are? Is LHR going to enable export of original file format .ptn's (Unlicensed of course), or is Jeff working on support for the new file format in CBPE? Just wondering.

Thanks.

BobHill

12-09-2007, 10:25 AM

Bearly,
I'm curious how the information given has indicated that you SHOULD NOT upgrade Designer and Flash to version 1.124? What do you think you learned that indicates that's not the version for you? Are you aware that if you don't, you no longer will be able to get and use anyone's new PTN files attached to a Forum Post. You will NOT be able to download a Store PTN to see how it looks in your Designer project PRIOR to having to purchase it? The ONLY limitation to you in 1.124 is that you can NOT open a PTN file (new or old) into the Pattern Editor to edit it except for PTN files you create in 1.124 yourself ... if you have a Pattern Editor, that is. How often have you ever done that in the past.

Bob

BobHill

12-09-2007, 10:29 AM

kwyjibo67,

Both. Jeff and LHR, as I understand, are working together to see it they can get his Pattern Editor to work with the new upgrade. But Jeff can pop in here (if he wishes, that is) with whats going on in that area.

Bob

rjustice

12-09-2007, 10:48 AM

Hey Bob,
I have a question that I still havent got a clear understanding about. I agree that you can do anything in the designer software that you have always done with the ptn's you already had, whether you purchased them, made them, or aquired from the depot sharing area.
The concern I have is that it has been posted several times that you can work with them in designer, but it has also been posted that unless you authored them you cant upload and carve them. So, can you clearly say with 100% certainty, that my collections of ptn's will be carvable if i upgrade? Even the ones that I did not author? I am trying to determine whether i need to convert everything to MPW's before doing so or not...

BobHill

12-09-2007, 10:55 AM

rjustice,

You are only partially right, but in the respect that the new 1.124 now allows you to do something that you COULD NOT DO BEFORE. The only patterns that you can put into designer but can't carve are the ones located within the LHR CarveWright Store. Before you could see what's available, but couldn't try them out in Designer. Now you can. This attribute has nothing to do with PTN files that I or others make and attach to a post for anyone to use. So instead of a limitation, this is an addition to what you could do before.

Bob

BearlyRich

12-09-2007, 11:37 PM

"The ONLY limitation to you in 1.124 is that you can NOT open a PTN file (new or old) into the Pattern Editor to edit it except for PTN files you create in 1.124 yourself .."

Enough of a reason for me! I have yet to get a scan I haven't had to edit. Yes, that would be in the "created by me" category. What about scans from others? How many times would we now have to go back to the mpw file to do edits? I bought the probe AND pattern editor. LHR has removed most of the utility from the pattern editor. I have hundreds of patterns here and I do like to edit. Now I can't, if I "upgrade". Sure, I could sit here for days loading them and saving them out as mpw's (can the editor save-as an mpw?, I never had to). After all, sharing patterns is one of the main reasons the machine became as popular as it did.

I'll leave no doubts. I love the CW machine. The software isn't bad (I'm a software engineer by the way). But over all, add up the common problems with the machines, the fact that they were advertised as coming with center line text and then having to pay an extra $100 for that option, and for only one computer, and now this ridiculous protection scheme lhr has come up with to limit our use of the pattern editor and I have been left with a pretty sour taste in my mouth. They are obviously switching over at an extremely fast rate from caring about customers to only caring about making money. I've been around computers and various other machines for over 30 years. I've seen it all before and know what the inevitable end will be. So what happens to this expensive wood carver when there's no more LHR and the software system is totally locked to an outdated and no longer functional computer? We throw away the worthless machine!

The software I write and maintain costs more than a complete Carvewrite system. We looked into various copy protection schemes years ago. Then we realized that our software will only run on our machines. Sound oddly similar? What's the sense of protecting anything? LHR spends more time in there copy protection schemes than they do in actual development. And I can say that with some minor authority as I have looked into their software. I haven't laughed so hard in decades. What a waste of time, money and resources. If they had any sense at all they would open source their software which would sell twice as many machines....

Sorry, went on a rant there but it had to come out of me sooner or later. I'm just a little upset at the future of the machine after spending so much money on it. I wish I had known the whole story before I had spent my hard earned money. Like I said, I've been down this road many times in the past...

So, no I won't be "upgrading" until I absolutely have to. Then maybe I'll look into how to keep two versions running at the same time Overall, I'm just not a happy camper...

Rich...

Bearly,
I'm curious how the information given has indicated that you SHOULD NOT upgrade Designer and Flash to version 1.124? What do you think you learned that indicates that's not the version for you? Are you aware that if you don't, you no longer will be able to get and use anyone's new PTN files attached to a Forum Post. You will NOT be able to download a Store PTN to see how it looks in your Designer project PRIOR to having to purchase it? The ONLY limitation to you in 1.124 is that you can NOT open a PTN file (new or old) into the Pattern Editor to edit it except for PTN files you create in 1.124 yourself ... if you have a Pattern Editor, that is. How often have you ever done that in the past.

Bob

Jeff_Birt

12-10-2007, 12:54 AM

Rich allow me to respond, just to make sure that everyone is clear on the subject:

Enough of a reason for me! I have yet to get a scan I haven't had to edit.

Scans when downloaded from the memory card are MPW files. You then have to turn them into PTNs. So nothing in the new versions of Designer prevent you in any way from editing any scans you have made.

What about scans from others?

If someone would want to provide artwork for a pattern in a format editable by all they could do so with the MPW or a PNG, etc. Several months ago on AllCW, I asked for someone to post the MPW files before for patterns they posted and they did. I then was able to clean up their original scans and post the new versions as MPWs and PTNs. That worked then and it would still work now.

Now I'll have to admit that I like the ability to edit patterns as well and though the changes in Designer have slightly changed they way we can work with various formats, it by no means prevents editing patterns.

liquidguitars

12-10-2007, 01:47 AM

If they had any sense at all they would open source their software which would sell twice as many machines....

Sounds good to me.. like a SDK for the plugin guys?

What's the sense of protecting anything?

In my line of work people stealing 3D models and calming ownership in my case has always been a prob. At a job one time I was asked to build a 3D earth model and texture for a show. The earth shot came out so well that a fellow artist showed it to the boss one day on his work computer as his own.

The dude even got a promotion!

LG

BearlyRich

12-10-2007, 01:37 PM

"Now I'll have to admit that I like the ability to edit patterns as well and though the changes in Designer have slightly changed they way we can work with various formats, it by no means prevents editing patterns."

Yep, but "slightly changed" is a long stretch. We used to be able to simply edit a pattern and save it. Re-edit it at will and share it. With this "update" we'd have to save the pattern so we can use it and then save it as an mpw to share it.

A quick count shows I currently have at least 300 patterns and over 250 projects that contain patterns, all shared by others. Just to use these I would have to load every single one in the editor and then save them all out as mpw's.

If LHR cared about it's customers and forced this "update" upon us, the least they should do is provide a program to batch convert all existing ptn's to mpw's to save us hours of needless work. Just plain inconsiderate....

Rich allow me to respond, just to make sure that everyone is clear on the subject:

Scans when downloaded from the memory card are MPW files. You then have to turn them into PTNs. So nothing in the new versions of Designer prevent you in any way from editing any scans you have made.

If someone would want to provide artwork for a pattern in a format editable by all they could do so with the MPW or a PNG, etc. Several months ago on AllCW, I asked for someone to post the MPW files before for patterns they posted and they did. I then was able to clean up their original scans and post the new versions as MPWs and PTNs. That worked then and it would still work now.

Now I'll have to admit that I like the ability to edit patterns as well and though the changes in Designer have slightly changed they way we can work with various formats, it by no means prevents editing patterns.

BearlyRich

12-10-2007, 01:42 PM

I have absolutely nothing against protecting the commercial ptn's. It makes sense and promotes commercial development. But not at the cost we have to pay now!

It's been mentioned by others that there was no reason they couldn't use a protected format along side the old ptn format. Allow the complete sharing of ptn's and keep the protected format locked. That would satisfy everyone. And if you could see the amount of ridiculous protection in their software, you'd know they have the ability to do this easily...

And yes, I love the SDK plug-in idea. That would also benefit eveyone. With open sourced plug-ins, the original program could be all locked up with the multitude of protection schemes they currently use to keep LHR happy and others could write useful plugins, like for batch converting ptn's to mpw's...

Sounds good to me.. like a SDK for the plugin guys?

In my line of work people stealing 3D models and calming ownership in my case has always been a prob. At a job one time I was asked to build a 3D earth model and texture for a show. The earth shot came out so well that a fellow artist showed it to the boss one day on his work computer as his own.

The dude even got a promotion!

LG

rjustice

12-10-2007, 09:29 PM

I still didnt get a clear answer.... Is anyone confirming 100% sure that you can still upload and carve older version .ptn's after upgrading the software to 1.124?? I realize you cant edit the ptn, but can you definately carve it?

Jeff_Birt

12-10-2007, 09:32 PM

Yep, you can definitely carve them. :p

Dirtydan

12-11-2007, 02:09 AM

Bob,

1. Are you saying that patterns made using 1.120 will no longer be supported for forum uploads? If this is really the case, then everyone who what's to maintain the 1.120 format can upload their PTN's to my site.

2. It also sounds like your saying that the new 1.123/4 so called upgrade will not support patterns purchased from other sources other than LHR. Is this true? You know there are other company's out there that have made and will continue to make commercial patterns for the 1.120 software.

3. "The ONLY limitation to you in 1.124 is that you can NOT open a PTN file (new or old) into the Pattern Editor to edit it except for PTN files you create in 1.124 yourself " This my friend is a major limitation and the reason I'm not going to do the upgrade. Not because I want to alter Commercial Patterns, but I might want to make some changes to a pattern that someone else created and wanted to share with me... Anyone who knows anything about programming knows it would be very simple to make it so users could share and edit each others patterns/files while still protecting the commercial/copyrighted files. For that matter, they could give the user the option to either protect or share their work. Might take as much as 20-25 lines of code and a little extra information storage within the file... Not that big of a deal, and it sure would stop all the whining... Mine for sure...

Don’t get me wrong, I as well as others appreciate you attempting to help all of us understand what’s going on with the upgrades… We all thank you, but I think we all just wish LHR would consider the impact they are passing on to all their users. If they had any real concern for us, they would have also provided an automatic file conversion option that could be used if the user desired as a part of the upgrade, but no…. they just said tuff-luck to all of us…if you want to use your old files, you convert them.

Ok, I’m through beating my chest, I really hope LHR get’s this mess fixed… I love the hardware and my old 1.120 / 1.121 Designer Software and Firmware….

Bearly,
I'm curious how the information given has indicated that you SHOULD NOT upgrade Designer and Flash to version 1.124? What do you think you learned that indicates that's not the version for you? Are you aware that if you don't, you no longer will be able to get and use anyone's new PTN files attached to a Forum Post. You will NOT be able to download a Store PTN to see how it looks in your Designer project PRIOR to having to purchase it? The ONLY limitation to you in 1.124 is that you can NOT open a PTN file (new or old) into the Pattern Editor to edit it except for PTN files you create in 1.124 yourself ... if you have a Pattern Editor, that is. How often have you ever done that in the past.

Bob

Jeff_Birt

12-11-2007, 08:15 AM

1. Are you saying that patterns made using 1.120 will no longer be supported for forum uploads? If this is really the case, then everyone who what's to maintain the 1.120 format can upload their PTN's to my site.

2. It also sounds like your saying that the new 1.123/4 so called upgrade will not support patterns purchased from other sources other than LHR. Is this true? You know there are other company's out there that have made and will continue to make commercial patterns for the 1.120 software.

#1: NO, you an still upload patterns made in any version of Designer to the forum.

#2: NO, you can still purchase patterns from ANYWHERE, really. It is up to the individual making the pattern to decide what format to provide them in.

BobHill

12-11-2007, 08:26 AM

Dan,
Since I now have version 1.124 and see no need to ever return, I can't check this out, but I believe someone got a "file Extension unknown" when trying to open a Pattern created in 1.124 when they were using Designer with 1.120. So it's the opposite from your thinking. You can open past patterns in 1.124, but MAY not be able to open 1.124 patterns when using 1.121 or earlier versions. Thus it's the NEW patterns that one might not be able to use. If you are still using 1.121 or 1.120, try the attached pattern on your machine. I made and saved it in 1.124. Don't worry about what it looks like. It's a quickie that I just put together and not a redo of an earlier pattern. Report if it'll work in other than 1.124 if you would.

Bob

Gunner

12-11-2007, 08:48 AM

Bob,
I have 1.120 on my desktop, and 1.124 on my laptop and card. I can't open you're pattern in 1.120 but so far I have been able to open my patterns from 1.120 into 1.124. I hope this helps.

BobHill

12-11-2007, 09:16 AM

Thanks, Gunner. I thought that would be the case. Thus if someone does NOT upgrade to 1.124 they will miss out on using Patterns made in 1.124 in a MPC of their own. Those using 1.124 can use any Pattern in Designer and can carve any pattern, except samples from the Depot. But those still using 1.120/1.121 will not be able to use NEW patterns or MPC files made in 1.124. Since version 1.124 is FREE and there are no negatives from having it, one is really limiting their use of their CW/CC machines by not doing so in my book.

Bob

forqnc

12-11-2007, 09:40 AM

Same here Bob, I am running ver 1.120 and if I try to 'Open' your pattern I get the not recognised file error. If I try to import it I get told the file is corrupt.

Dirtydan

12-11-2007, 10:02 AM

No, I can't open it. This I understand, but the limitation or problem I see is that if I did have 1.124 on my machine/computer and you sent me a pattern to play with, I couldn't. All I'd be able to do with is would be stick it into my project. This is the problem. If I'm wrong, then things haven't been explained right.

Another basic problem with the pattern/designer editor is that after I've imported a pattern or graphic into my designer favorites and want to change it, after I've made the corrections (to my own patterns/graphics design in the editor) it will not allow me or give me the option to replace the file in my favoites, No, it saves in some uslress format that I have to go back and convert/import back into Designer and my favorites. Not cool. Maybe they fixed this in 1.124, if so, way to go LHR...but I suspect not...

Also, it sounds like all these updates did not do anything to really improve the capabilities of Designer. Now that would have been nice...

I'm just getting old I guess, but I've helped design enough software programs to understand that none of these changes were very well thought out. At least with us users in mind, more like out of mind....

I don't think 99.9999% of the users out here want to or would knowly violate copyright protected patterns.

I might be wrong on this also, but where LHR may have slipped up is in the area of the .mpc file. If I understand everything correctly, the .mpc files can be shared, even with copyrighted patterns within them. If this is the case, then, all the other things they've done dosen't matter... Even if the copyrighted pattern it's self can't be edited, it is still being shared and used by anyone that gets a copy of the .mpc file. Just a thought....

Dan,
If you are still using 1.121 or 1.120, try the attached pattern on your machine. I made and saved it in 1.124. Don't worry about what it looks like. It's a quickie that I just put together and not a redo of an earlier pattern. Report if it'll work in other than 1.124 if you would.

Bob

Reset

12-11-2007, 10:10 AM

Thus if someone does NOT upgrade to 1.124 they will miss out on using Patterns made in 1.124 in a MPC of their own.

However, if someone DOES upgrade to 1.124 they will miss out on the ability to EDIT patterns provided by others, should the author not have a problem of letting them do so. With 1.124 LHR has decided for the author that is not permissible without the purchase of the probe/pattern editor software.

But those still using 1.120/1.121 will not be able to use NEW patterns or MPC files made in 1.124.
Because v1.124 is not backward compatible. Understandable if this were version 8 (for example) and not supporting version 1 files... but, come on, this is version 1 not supporting version 1 files :)

Since version 1.124 is FREE and there are no negatives from having it,
Being FREE is irrelevant, how can anybody justify this with being FREE? The removal of centerline text was FREE too :)

one is really limiting their use of their CW/CC machines by not doing so in my book.
The only "one" that has limited my use of my CW/CC is LHR.

...and that's how it reads in my book. Which book is fiction, and which is non-fiction I guess is still up for debate :)

Tommy

woodknack

12-11-2007, 10:23 AM

So let me see If I understand this. Now that I am using 1.120 and someone sends me a pattern they made with 1.124 I will not be able to use it in 1.120?

Whats next!? The next firmware maybe will will have to call cw to ask them if they will give us a special key code to do a certain pattern.

Dirtydan

12-11-2007, 10:30 AM

Tommy,

"Centerline Text", now there's a subject that really ticked me off. After giving LHR $100 for the Centerline (upgrade we were thought to be getting) finding out we had it all along and that it just had to be switched on did not make me a happy camper. Do I LOVE Centerline Text capability, YES I Do, but it was just the way it was implemented. Everyone was lead to believe it was something new and their programmers were working hard to get it implemented into the next Designer change... Didn't happen that way... It was all a big tease to get the extra $$$ out of us.

Are you also saying that 1.124 does not include Centerline, even for those of us who gave up the $100?

Also, I thought the only way to be able to edit a pattern was if you had the (again switch turned on [Probe Users/Software] Designer Editor implemented. When you paid for the probe, they gave you the code to turn on the editor. Again, the capabilities always existed with in the Designer Software, just not implemented. Am I wrong on that?

Being FREE is irrelevant, how can anybody justify this with being FREE? The removal of centerline text was FREE too :)

The only "one" that has limited my use of my CW/CC is LHR.

...and that's how it reads in my book. Which book is fiction, and which is non-fiction I guess is still up for debate :)

Tommy

BobHill

12-11-2007, 10:51 AM

Dan,

Particularly you'd be able to edit any Pattern I'd make and upload here as an attachment, because for one thing it's you, and you've been around a long time. Probably I'd also allow anyone else to do it as well, as any PTN file that I upload I'm offering to anyone that's a member of this forum. Thus, although I'd have to upload it as a MPW (probably as a ZIP until MPW is an allowed attachment) instead of a PTN is all.

And I can't believe how much misunderstanding is going on on this point. Who would someone care if a Pattern is sent as a MPW which CAN be edited in 1.124 or a PTN file that can't be edited because the author doesn't wish it to be edited. Shouldn't an author be allowed to do that?

If someone has a bunch of PTN files created previously (by themselves or otherwise) they will NOT be able to edit them, but where is the problem with that? How many would you once again need or wish to edit if they were created some time ago. Wouldn't the editing already be done? Or is this a hyperthetical situation? If I have created a PTN in the past, I always have the raster image that I used to create it in the first place, so once again, I can create that image as a new PTN and then once again, since I'm the author, I can once again edit again. If you have an old PTN file that I created and YOU wish to edit it, and I agree that you can do that, all I have to do is send you the raster image in which YOU can create your own PTN file in 1.124 and then YOU are the author of THAT PTN and you can edit it to your liking any time.

Bo

Reset

12-11-2007, 11:10 AM

Are you also saying that 1.124 does not include Centerline, even for those of us who gave up the $100?

No, I was using that as the example of this "improvement" being free to justify anything. Centerline IS available in 1.124 if you have purchased the license to use it.

Also, I thought the only way to be able to edit a pattern was if you had the (again switch turned on [Probe Users/Software] Designer Editor implemented. When you paid for the probe, they gave you the code to turn on the editor. Again, the capabilities always existed with in the Designer Software, just not implemented. Am I wrong on that?
Yes the only way to edit patterns all along was with the pattern editor included with the purchase of the probe. You can still do that, but are limited to editing ONLY the patterns YOU create. It should be noted that when Jeff Birt released his program, it providing a way for those who didn't have the probe/editor to edit patterns in any of a number of graphics programs. Jeff's program opened that ability to all...

You are correct in that the probe/editor was built into the software all along... however, just because it was there and not implemented for all, doesn't mean that it should have been... it was just the way that LHR had the software written, and decided on how to distribute it (unlock it with the purchase of the probe).

Centerline was in the program also. The difference as I see it is... initially it WAS included in the "base" software, but later changed to be a purchased add-on.

Tommy

Jeff_Birt

12-11-2007, 11:10 AM

JRL

12-11-2007, 11:13 AM

Where do I go and download this new version of software?

BobHill

12-11-2007, 11:15 AM

Dan,

If you have Centerline text carving on your old version, you also have it now in 1.124. I just tried it in Designer and Voila , 'tis there just fine.

Bob

woodknack

12-11-2007, 11:37 AM

Jeff,
So for those of us that are running 1.120, a pattern from 1.124 that someone made will not work for me?

Reset

12-11-2007, 11:45 AM

Dan,
And I can't believe how much misunderstanding is going on on this point. Who would someone care if a Pattern is sent as a MPW which CAN be edited in 1.124 or a PTN file that can't be edited because the author doesn't wish it to be edited. Shouldn't an author be allowed to do that?
Anybody who does not own the probe, and were using Jeff's program to convert the ptn so it could be edited in any number of graphics programs. Yes, and author SHOULD be allowed to decide if his/her pattern can be edited or not... not being able to decide on our own is what is at issue.

If someone has a bunch of PTN files created previously (by themselves or otherwise) they will NOT be able to edit them, but where is the problem with that? How many would you once again need or wish to edit if they were created some time ago. Wouldn't the editing already be done? Or is this a hyperthetical situation?
The problem with that is, if the autor provided the pattern originally so that it can be edited, LHR has taken that away. While I agree "old" patterns have already been edited... does that mean they cannot be improved upon? And what if the author welcomes that improvement, not only for themselves, but for the entire community in which he/she provided the pattern for in the first place?

If I have created a PTN in the past, I always have the raster image that I used to create it in the first place, so once again, I can create that image as a new PTN and then once again, since I'm the author, I can once again edit again. If you have an old PTN file that I created and YOU wish to edit it, and I agree that you can do that, all I have to do is send you the raster image in which YOU can create your own PTN file in 1.124 and then YOU are the author of THAT PTN and you can edit it to your liking any time.
You are correct with everything you say here, Bob :D But will you feel the same when your fielding hundreds of requests for permissions and and requests for editable files ? And say after you've sent your file to a whole bunch of people, and you just get tired... but the next one (you didn't send it to) was the one who would have improved the file in way you or anybody else had ever imagined? Wouldn't that be a loss for all? And all because LHR has but this road block up, by not allowing authors to decide if they wish to provide their own patterns the way they choose. This is a hypothetical example being used, of course :)

Point is, a restriction has been placed upon authors, like it or not, and this restriction makes it harder to something that DID and would continue to benefit the community as whole. Why make something that DID and CONTINUE TO benefit the community HARDER to do?

Tommy

Jeff_Birt

12-11-2007, 12:03 PM

Jeff,
So for those of us that are running 1.120, a pattern from 1.124 that someone made will not work for me?

Right. The older version of Designer has no clue how to open the different file format of the newer patterns. The newer versions of Designer can use any pattern created with any version of Designer.

Think of it like this:

I have a newer CD player in my house. It can play not only regular CDs but also CDs that have the songs saved as MP3s (MP3s are compressed). The regular CD format is 20+ years old, the MP3 format is much newer. The newer 'version' of CD player at home will play both types.

I have an old CD player in my truck, built well before the MP3 format was even thought of. It will play regular CDs just fine but has no clue what to make of CDs with the 'new' MP3 format. Since my truck CD player is older it is not compatible with the 'new' CDs with MP3s on them.

Dirtydan

12-11-2007, 12:08 PM

Jeff,

I think we all get it that you can't open a file created in the new format with an older version of the software, that's not the issue. The issue is that you limited by the new version as to what you can do with your own files.

Yes, I understand there are work-arounds to most of the issues related to editing of old pattern files and such, but if LHR would have taken the time to make their changes correctly and not place the burden on the users, we wouldn't have anything to complain about here would we? Boy that was a long sentence...

Folks, it is exactly like a file format change in ANY OTHER SOFTWARE, really! For instance word processor formats change over the years, I can open older formats in MS Word, but people with say Word 97, can't open a MS word document saved in the new .docx format. So, new software is BACKWARD compatible with older formats.

It works the same way in Desinger. In 1.123(4) I can open any previous version patterns or MPCs. Folks with previous versions cannot open new files created in 1.123(4). So Designer is BACKWARD compatible with all previous files.

Reset

12-11-2007, 12:16 PM

Folks, it is exactly like a file format change in ANY OTHER SOFTWARE, really! For instance word processor formats change over the years, I can open older formats in MS Word, but people with say Word 97, can't open a MS word document saved in the new .docx format. So, new software is BACKWARD compatible with older formats.

It works the same way in Desinger. In 1.123(4) I can open any previous version patterns or MPCs. Folks with previous versions cannot open new files created in 1.123(4). So Designer is BACKWARD compatible with all previous files.

I stand corrected... Designer is backward compatible. ;)

However, with limiting capacities. I agree with you Jeff, formats change over the years. BUT the word process example you are using is a format that that became unusable 10 YEARS later (give or take a couple years):)

Ten years from now, if I were to be told all my patterns from today cannot be used they way I have been using them... I'd understand. But then again, I would have had ten years to update to the newest version also.

For the past year (maybe a little longer) many have created and shared patterns and information. The community has grown because of that. There is trust in consistency... how many are not going to put the work into creating new things without having some trust in knowing that that effort was not wasted by the next change that might come? Can you honestly say yourself, Jeff, that you would have spent the considerable amount of time and effort writing your program had you known it would become obsolete such a short time later?

Once again, I will state, having the ability to protect your patterns is a good thing. LHR providing that ability is a good thing, for those CHOOSING to use it for there own patterns. Not allowing the individual authors to make their own choice, is not such a good thing.

Jeff_Birt

12-11-2007, 12:19 PM

Dan I was replying to a question posted by another user. Please look at what I quoted and then look a few posts up for the original question I replied to.

I understand the issue you are referring to Dan, the problem is that the few people who the pattern editing change really effected are confusing the heck out of everyone else who may not have ever or will never edit a pattern. It is causing a lot of people to be upset when they don't really understand what they are upset about (because they don't know what the pattern editor is).

Dirtydan

12-11-2007, 12:21 PM

Bob and Jeff,

I've sent you both a PM with some of my comments... Don't want to muddy up the water any more than it already is...

Please pass on to LHR if you feel my comments are worth thinking about...

Thanks

Reset

12-11-2007, 12:24 PM

Right. The older version of Designer has no clue how to open the different file format of the newer patterns. The newer versions of Designer can use any pattern created with any version of Designer.

Think of it like this:

I have a newer CD player in my house. It can play not only regular CDs but also CDs that have the songs saved as MP3s (MP3s are compressed). The regular CD format is 20+ years old, the MP3 format is much newer. The newer 'version' of CD player at home will play both types.

I have an old CD player in my truck, built well before the MP3 format was even thought of. It will play regular CDs just fine but has no clue what to make of CDs with the 'new' MP3 format. Since my truck CD player is older it is not compatible with the 'new' CDs with MP3s on them.

Yes, but does anybody remember when almost overnight, copy protections were implemented, and many CD's would not play on many players, new and old? Wonder how things would have turned out had they insisted on keeping it that way?

Tommy

BobHill

12-11-2007, 12:43 PM

>>Bob :D But will you feel the same when your fielding hundreds of requests for permissions and and requests for editable files <<

Tommy,

You know, I'd be really surprised to see that happen. First of all, how many people have actually modified Patterns from others (including myself). Remember that you can still modify a MPC file, just NOT a PTN file that you'd put into a MPC file. I really think that misconception has come full blown into the subject.

I know you have a different agenda for patterns, but then you are also well equipped to handle graphics and I'll bet you actually don't go BACK and do a lot of re-editing of Patterns yourself, or if you do, its seldom and this is more a conversational conflict than an action conflict.

Bob

leesheridan

12-11-2007, 03:14 PM

Reset

12-11-2007, 03:21 PM

>>Bob But will you feel the same when your fielding hundreds of requests for permissions and and requests for editable files [quote]

[quote]Tommy,

You know, I'd be really surprised to see that happen.
That is why I posed the example as being hypothetical. But... what if?

First of all, how many people have actually modified Patterns from others (including myself).
Does the amount who actually do really matter? 2? 50? 100? Without even knowing how many, is it fair to say, not many?

Remember that you can still modify a MPC file, just NOT a PTN file that you'd put into a MPC file. I really think that misconception has come full blown into the subject. Wasn't forgotten... just not an issue at all because that hasn't changed at all.

I know you have a different agenda for patterns, Now this statement I do have a very big issue with. And before I continue, I just want to make clear that I have no intention or desire to get it an argument about it, and knowing full well that in this medium (forum post) it is very difficult to express "tone" along with the message... please be aware I am just stating my opinion and not "attacking", and will try my best not to give that immpression. But here goes :D

What do you know about my agenda? How is it different? Different from what? Have you ever discussed it with me? Have we ever discussed anything? Taking into account, what you "know", has that influenced you in taking advantage of the patterns available on my site as recently as yesterday? I'd really like to hear what you "know" about my agenda... along with what your own is. While I may feel I have an idea as to what your agenda might be... it would be somewhat pretentious of me to say "I know".

but then you are also well equipped to handle graphics
Thank you for the compliment :) But truthfully, I'm no better equipped than anybody else. Maybe I had the time to devote more attention to a particular area (graphics, being the topic of this conversation), but anything I do CAN be done by everybody (ok, well almost). All depends on the time and effort put into it.

and I'll bet you actually don't go BACK and do a lot of re-editing of Patterns yourself, or if you do, its seldom
Wish I could put a very large sum of money on a bet like that :) But truth is, I look to improve upon everything I do. Yes, sometimes I do say, "ok, that's good enough", but everything, and everybody has the potential for improvment, some how, some way. If that were not true, we would all still be amebas swimming in a puddle somewhere, and none of this would matter anyway.

and this is more a conversational conflict than an action conflict.
Bob
Kind of judgmental on your part. And adds to the negative perception of how this site is being moderated by some. One thing you can be sure of... I have better things to do and learn than to waste my time with a "conversational conflict" On the other hand... an "action conflict", I have all the time in the world. Along with accomplishing a whole lot of other things too! :D

Tommy

jeez... had to go back and edit some of the smilies out... only allowed 4! (would have put one here too).

mtylerfl

12-11-2007, 04:03 PM

Yes guys I do go back and edit patterns that I have in order to give a customer just what he or she wants. I can't even go back and edit ptn's of our grand kids. I got the new Z-pack installed and by mistake I uploaded 1.123 and now I'm stuck. I had a machine I couldn't use so I had to upgrade and now I have a system I have spent many hours on patterns and I can't even call mine, and make changes to which I find I need to now. So those of you who are profestionals, what do I do now?

Hello Mike,

It is possible to run both versions on the same computer, but a few things have to be done BEFORE updating to the new version, which unfortunately, Mike, you cannot do now, but perhaps others will find this useful for the time-being...

These steps were originally provided to me by another member...

1) Copy the original install directory and paste it right back into the 'Program Files' directory. Windows will rename it 'Copy of ...(nameofdirectory)'.

2) Find the 'gui.exe' file (in your "Copy of..." directory)and right click it, then select 'Create Shortcut', then copy the resulting shortcut to your desktop and rename it Designer 1.120.

NOTE: When you install 1.123(4) it will overwrite the original Carvewright folder in 'Program Files', but since you have a copy of the original version, it will remain intact in it's own "Copy of..." directory within Program Files.

The end result is that you will have two shortcuts now...one for Designer 1.120 and one for Designer 1.123(or 4). Dbl-click whichever you want to run - new or old. (I successfully run Designer 1.120 and 1.124 on one of my computers, and just 1.120 on another.)

Disclaimer: You are on your own. Please, if the steps above don't make sense to you, or you are not confident in following the steps - don't try them. It's really just very basic computer procedures, but I don't want someone "messin' up" their old (or new) versions if they don't know exactly what they're doing.:)

Mike, it MAY be possible to uninstall the new version, and reinstall the old version (that is, if you still have the old version installer), but I'm really not sure about that. I have been told that once you have updated and overwritten the old version, you can't go back as it stands right now.

Rickrljones

12-11-2007, 05:08 PM

Dirtydan

12-11-2007, 05:40 PM

Michael T,

What about the memory/data card. Do you have to have one for each version?:confused::confused:

JOHNB

12-11-2007, 06:34 PM

all we(i) want is to be able to edit ptn.s the way we have been. and this doesn't mean with the pattern editor only. i have been using paint.net for almost a year now and have grown quite fond to it. keenosan posted the cross wrenches pattern the other day.(thank you keenosan) i edit it to one wrench. i also darken the ends a tad . i will not be able to do this with the new version. sure , there will be work arounds(mpw.s, png.s, abc.s whatever, ask the author to change it for me, change my whole darn computer, etc. etc.) but couldn't lhr just let the author decide whether to lock or un-lock their own ptn.?

edit: plain and simple. no confusion no where and with no one

Darryl A

12-11-2007, 07:01 PM

Does anyone know what the new version 1.124 update patch is for?
After installing 1.124 this readme popped up. It does continue all the way back to ver 1.006

## (IV) Release Notes ############################

07 Dec 2007 -- Differences between versions 1.124 and 1.123
* Fixed bug preventing some patterns from being licensed
* Fixed bug with Jog to Position not prompting for bit change
* Improved licensing user interface

21 Nov 2007 -- Differences between versions 1.123 and 1.120
* Updated licensing model to support new pattern libraries
* Added options to remember license server login information
* Added new icons for different file types support by the Designer
* Added support for new hardware revisions
* Added ability projects to remember stain and finish
* Added ability to set a default stain and finish for new projects
* Added checks on max carving depth and max cut through for machine protection
* Added file associations for MPL (license files), MPN (pattern collections),
PTN (pattern files), MPW (pattern editor artwork files),
and MWM (CarveWright firmware files)
* Added ability to replace default firmware
* Added new Pattern Depot icon on toolbar and help menu, which will open
the new CarveWright Pattern Depot store in your web browser
* Added "Show Licenses" option to Help menu
* Made "Jog To Touch", "Sleep Time", and "Scanner Type" options persistent
* Improved registration wizard
* Improved cutmotor error detection logic
* Improved measurement sequencing
* Updated installation package, future updates should require only a patch
* Updated included Flash Player to version 9 (Windows only)
* Fixed slow motion during measure back edge bug
* Fixed bug preventing import of patterns whose name included apostrophes
* Fixed bug preventing import of large scans or images

mtylerfl

12-11-2007, 07:55 PM

Michael T,

What about the memory/data card. Do you have to have one for each version?:confused::confused:

Hmmm, VERY good question:confused:. I have not tried uploading a project from the 1.124 version to any of my cards (I have 3 cards). One card has the firmware 1.121 (because one machine has the new Z-pak design) and the other two cards have 1.120 firmware. I'm still doing all my project uploading from the 1.120 version of Designer to the three cards.

I am currently evaluating 1.124 Designer version as far as it's pattern handling, etc.. Might explore the firmware issue after I finish a couple "time-critical projects" and return from our cruise (we take a cruise the week before Christmas each year - we'll be in the middle of the ocean from Dec 16th through Dec 23rd !).

Sorry I can't be more helpful at this time.

mtylerfl

12-11-2007, 08:02 PM

The only reason you would not be able to go back to an older version of Designer is the entries in your computer registery... Just do a search for Carvewright in the registery and remove all entries... Be carefull when deleting things in registery... Just do a START, RUN and type in regedit as the command...

Hello Rick,

I would NOT recommend anyone edit their registry unless they know how to make a backup, know how to restore it if something goes awry, and that they really, really, know exactly what they are doing. It scares me when I think about the possible ramifications a 'non-geek' could face!

Dirtydan

12-11-2007, 08:47 PM

I knew it, we're paying to much for those patterns... LOL

return from our cruise (we take a cruise the week before Christmas each year - we'll be in the middle of the ocean from Dec 16th through Dec 23rd !).

Have a Fun Cruise and a GREAT Christmas Michael....

Take care,

pkunk

12-11-2007, 09:21 PM

Hmmm, VERY good question:confused:. I have not tried uploading a project from the 1.124 version to any of my cards (I have 3 cards). One card has the firmware 1.121 (because one machine has the new Z-pak design) and the other two cards have 1.120 firmware. I'm still doing all my project uploading from the 1.120 version of Designer to the three cards.

I am currently evaluating 1.124 Designer version as far as it's pattern handling, etc.. Might explore the firmware issue after I finish a couple "time-critical projects" and return from our cruise (we take a cruise the week before Christmas each year - we'll be in the middle of the ocean from Dec 16th through Dec 23rd !).

Sorry I can't be more helpful at this time.
I can run a 1.124 mpc on a card w/ 1.20 firmware, & run 1.20 upload on a card w/ 1.23 firmware. Just pay attention to the requests for update or they will update the firmware. I see no advantage to running the older version.

BobHill

12-12-2007, 08:26 AM

mtylerfl

12-12-2007, 09:08 AM

Michael,

Just to let you know, my wife and I just finished our yearly cruise (Carnival's "Glory" this year) and we left the ocean and ports in good shape for you <g>.

I sure don't know what your reservations are over using 1.124 to design your projects and use it for carving. As far as backup, why would you need to make one? Remember there is NO real change to the MPC file format and it's fully editable by anyone who has it uploaded to their Designer, regardless of WHO makes the file. It's ONLY the PTN file that limits the editing only to it's AUTHOR (and that has to be done in Pattern Editor). But in any case I'm sure you (as well as I) always keep the original raster image file archieved somewhere, which shouldn't be a change in regular procedure ... at least for me.

Bob

Hello Bob,

Thanks for leaving the ports in good shape! I'll bet you two had a wonderful time! (I always worry about weight-gain when I take these trips - gets harder for me to take off those extra pounds every year!)

As far as 1.124, I honestly don't have any reservations about using it to layout projects. As you stated, there is no problem there at all - I just haven't got around to it with that version...have been focusing more on trying to discover a convenient method to access our existing patterns begun/created prior to the 1.123/4 release and being able to edit them with the Pattern Editor and the CBPE.

We have so many "in the middle of" pattern development projects and require the ability to go back and forth freely between the "mpw" and "ptn" and "png" formats (ala Jeff's CBPE) when tweaking patterns. That applies particularly to complex pattern projects that are "sectioned" or "layered" and have to be tested over, and over again for proper fit (such as my wreath project) before finalizing the patterns once and for all.

We've been working on several unique, fit-critical patterns for some time now, and it is important that we be sure to preserve them and maintain editing capability so we don't have to start all over again with patterns that we've already invested a lot of time developing. So, for the time-being, the 1.120 is still our "main" working environment as we continue developement of these patterns. We're a little behind now due to the "little detour" of investigating the 1.124 behaviors as far as how it relates to pattern development for the future, but especially how it affects the editing capability for patterns we started developing prior to that version.

Other than that, version 1.124 seems just fine and it has added several nice features that I like!

BobHill

12-12-2007, 11:52 AM

Understandable, Michael, since you extensively use Jeff's Pattern Editor and still have extensive need to re-edit your "old" patterns. That does make sense.

Bob

Yosserg

01-05-2008, 11:20 PM

Hello,
I just got a Compucarve and was reading the back and forth on which version is better. Should as a new user just go straight to 1.124 or should I use an older version and if so where would I get it? Thank you for the help!

Dirtydan

01-06-2008, 12:17 AM

Ok, I screwed up and switdhed over to 1.125.... Guess what, I can not export any of the patterns I've made from my Favorites... What's whth that??? I also can't double click on them and open them in the designer editor... Am I the only one with this problem...has any one actually tried? To say I'm PO'ed is an under statement...

Dirtydan

01-06-2008, 12:33 AM

Can any one of you lovers of version 1.125 tell me how I can recover all the 100+ pattern files I saved using my origional 1.120 software. No, I didn't keep the origional file/documents... There was no need, I had all the patterns and a backup of all the patterns. Now, it looks like all I have is crap.

If there is a way to Un-screw this, I'd sure like to know...:mad:

tstryk

01-06-2008, 08:57 AM

Gunny,

I tried to install 1.125 and it wouldn't work. So, I reinstalled the old version over it, and everything was still there. I am not saying that I know this will work in your case, but there is a good chance of it!

Jeff_Birt

01-06-2008, 09:01 AM

Before, getting your shorts in a wad you might have tried a quick search for the answer. (Not meaning to pick on you, just hate to see a fellow carver get upset when the fix is easy). For instance I found the following:

http://www.carvewright.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5318&highlight=1.123+patterns&page=2 (post 12 and 17)

I agree that if you did not save your original artwork (??) or have MPW's of your old patterns it is really inconvenient, but the work around is not horrible, just time consuming. BTW, the pattern editor in 1.125 has some nice improvements: It properly recognizes the scan quality/size of a scanned item and properly sizes the pattern, you can also manually override the size and default depth of a pattern, the 'brushes' have been improved as well.

Gunner

01-06-2008, 09:44 AM

Dan,
Not sure if this will work, but have you tried system restore to a date before you downloaded 1.125 ?

Gunner

Dirtydan

01-06-2008, 03:06 PM

Gunner,

Tried the System Restore.... Ended up dumping everything... That was good and bad...

Good, because I did have a copy of 1.120 saved on my HD which also had my probe and Pattern Editor interfaces in place... Luck me:) Bad, because I lost all my Favorites in the patten area... While that's a pain, I still have most of the patterns saved on the HD, so all I have to do is import them again...

Desk top is back UP:D

By the way, there are NO improvements in 1.125 that offset the trouble it creates for those of us who had developed our own patterns under 1.120. I will keep 1.125 on my laptop, rather than going though this hassle again... and will only use it for new pattern designs... if that...:mad:

1.125 was an Twisted Evil change...... And why in God's name did they have the pattern editor in designer save edited patterns to a different file area? If you open a pattern and edit it, it should be saved as a pattern and update the file in your Favorites if that's where you opened it from... What a brainless move...

Ok, I'm done... Guess I'll spend the next week or so importing my files...I've got nothing better to do I guess, well at least that's what the folks at LHR seem to think...

Dan,
Not sure if this will work, but have you tried system restore to a date before you downloaded 1.125 ?

Gunner