Trouble raising and lowering the head assembly

[koehler]

Not sure what the right terminology is but I am having trouble raising and lowering (mostly lowering) the rollers down to the material to be carved.

The bevel gears do not seem to stay engaged and act like I have completely lowered the assembly to the wood surface.

I can manually turn the screws on either side to get the whole thing to move up or down but when I try to use the crank handle it engages and then immediately starts clicking like the rollers were all the way down on the piece I am carving. I can usually raise the assembly but can only get a couple of cranks on the handle before it starts clicking/disengaging then it will engage and start going up a bit more. When lowering its was a bit of a hit and miss deal but now it just will not go down more that a half crank before it disengages and starts to click.

As a temporary work around I can remove the side and manually turn the screw down to get contact with the wood then replace the side and do a complete carving.

There has to be a better way. Something in the raising and lowering mecanics must be too tight or binding but I do not know where to look.

[Jeff_Birt]

Make sure that the 4 vertical guide rods and the lead screws themselves are clean. I wipe the guide rods down with a rag sprayed with silicone spray lube. I've been using a dry plate spray lube on teh lead screws but I think CW calls for lithium grease.

[JOHNB]

Smooth Operation

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MAINTAIN SMOOTH UP AND DOWN OPERATION WITH THE CRANK HANDLE BY APPLYING (SPRAY) DRY LUBE ON THE 4 VERTICAL CORNER POST. WHAT A DIFFERENCE IT MAKES. I WAS ABOUT TO CALL LHR FOR BAD GEARS, NOW IT GOES UP AND DOWN MUCH EASIER. MAJOR INPROVEMENT. WASN'T NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM GEARS, ONLY BINDING ON THE POSTS. TRY IT, YOU'LL LIKE IT.

same as jeff's, "this was an old post..

[Kenm810]

I had the same problem, I cleaned and lubed the four corner post, it helped a little but but the handle was still starting to ratchet before the rollers reached the project boards surface. So I lubed inside the handle shaft where it enters the side of the machine above the key pad, and haven't had the problem since.

See Hand crank (http://www.carvewright.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2723&highlight=ratchet)

[rjustice]

I had the same problem with my machine last year trying to use it in a cold shop. If it is under 55 deg. there is a chance that the thermal expansion of the upper head is shrinking, causing it to bind on the corner posts. I proved it on my unit by simply bringing it indoors to warm up for an hour or so, and it worked like a charm. After it was out in the cold again, same thing happened... the crank ratcheted out, but rollers were not compressed. Warmed it back up, and it worked fine.....

Just another FYI....

Ron

[jspringertx]

Makes sense to me. I seldom have temperatures at 55 or below, but my garage does get cold now and then.

I appreciate the heads up!

[wodwerking]

I have less then 7 hours of use, from the first minute, my machine has been a pain to lower the rollers to compress them on the workpiece. I have had to resort to using a screwdriver or a piece of wood to turn the gears to lower the rollers.

Cold or not, this should not be happening

Ron

[Jeff_Birt]

Well, if its cold it will be a problem. Different metals (and all other materials) expand and contract at different rates. You also need to make sure that the vertical guide rods are clean and lubricated properly. It is also possible to have a problem with the clutch. Why not call CW tech support and see what they have to say?

[joshjack]

Stupid question, but are you moving the red handle into the "release" position? I've done that several times to myself.

J

[mtylerfl]

Stupid question, but are you moving the red handle into the "release" position? I've done that several times to myself.

J


You mean somebody actually uses that red handle?;)

Never use it myself - no problem. Honest, I forget that it's even there.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I quit using the lock red handle 3 months ago and have not had a problem....

Remember if you don't have dust collection and the blowing the dust around with a air hose could push it into the gears on the bottom and the cross over rod that transfers the crank from the keypad side to the other side.

AL

[oldjoe]

I tried it once but buy time it was done carving the only thing that had moved was the red handle. Never really figured out what it was suppose to do. Other then add a little color to the machine.
I know its suppose to lock the head in place. LOL

[wodwerking]

Well, if its cold it will be a problem. Different metals (and all other materials) expand and contract at different rates. You also need to make sure that the vertical guide rods are clean and lubricated properly. It is also possible to have a problem with the clutch. Why not call CW tech support and see what they have to say?

I politely and respectfully disagree with you.

I realize that metal as well as other materials expand and contract with heat and cold. However, the machine should have been designed to work whether or not it is hot or cold.

How would you feel if your automobile clutch would only work if the ambience temperature was above 60F. Would you say, well its because metal expands and contracts???

Ron

[Jeff_Birt]

Let's not get into an argument, please take a look at your owners manual. CW has specified an operational temperature range for a reason. EVERYTHING has a range of temperatures for which it is designed to work.

At my last job I installed a new surface mount assembly line. We bought some really nice hi-end placement machines. You could not let them set for any length of time and then expect to turn them on and start building. You had to run a conditioning program that ran everything through its paces for 30-60 minutes to get everything warmed up and lubricated.

[mcanelly]

I have encountered the same problem. Now I just make sure that my shop stays at 70 degrees all the time. I haven't had any problems lowering or raising the head since. It might cost a little more for heating, but it saves me a ton of headaches.
Jim

[wodwerking]

Jeff

You can hardly compare an under $2000.00 machine with what you installed at your last job. The raising and lowering mechanism is very little different from that used in surface planers. It is very old technology.

I have a 17 year old Ryobi portable planer that I have never had any trouble whatever raising and lowering the cutting head.

Don't get me wrong. I like the machine, I have a lot of plans for it.

But I think this is a serious design flaw that LHR needs to address and rectify. I think it is wrong that the whole world should have to burn tankers full of fuel just to compensate for thier design flaw. This is something they should correct.

Even in thier manual, they state the machine shouldn't be used at temperatures lower than 40 degrees farenheight or higher than 110. Come to think of it, I don't work too well beyond those temerature ranges either.

But the problem occurs well above 40 degrees, well above 50 degrees and above 60 degrees. I haven't seen 70 degrees since I got the machine, so I can't speak for those temps.

I think Carvewright owners ought to make some noise to LHR and let them know that it is unacceptable that they should ignore this flaw.

I don't think whitewashing it is going to resolve the problem for present or future Carvewright owners.

Ron

Jeff, part of your post is below:




At my last job I installed a new surface mount assembly line. We bought some really nice hi-end placement machines. You could not let them set for any length of time and then expect to turn them on and start building. You had to run a conditioning program that ran everything through its paces for 30-60 minutes to get everything warmed up and lubricated.

[rjustice]

Wodwerking,

Since I brought up the issue of thermal expansion in the first place I would like to jump in here and comment. I know and understand this theory because I am responsible for engineering plastic injection molds that have to be designed around this "natural occurance". ... With that said, I was once taught by an old timer, when i was new in the engineering field, that "engineering is a series of compromises"...In this case if you comprompromise the operating temperature range, you sacrifice quality. What you are saying is correct for your planer, but if you think about it, what does your planer do?... it is simply holding the board down, to be pulled through to cut one axis accurately. In this case it is "Z".... The CW machine is trying to hold precision in 3 directions. X,Y and Z. If things were loose enough to work at any temperature, the level of detail would be seriously diminished because of the looseness of all of the working components.
If you apply this thinking to a car engine, this is why you shouldnt start a cold engine in the winter and floor it. You tend to let it warm up gradually. The reason is that the clearances on the moving parts in the engine while cold are decreased, and displace the oil between them and therefore are running "steel to steel" instead of having that buffer of oil acting as bearings between the moving parts.. warming it up allows the growth in the moving parts to their operating temp, where the optimal lubrication can occur. If the engine had enough clearance to run when ice cold, once it warmed up it would probably shake, rattle, smoke, and burn oil. The temp is regulated by coolant, and a thermostat, to stay in an "optimum" operation temp.
I dont feel that the machine is so precision that it has to be up to 70 degrees to run, but my personal experiences was about 60 it seemed to work ok. It may be very possible that you have another problem, which will in all likelyhood come back to cleaning something up.
I suggest bringing the machine indoors for a couple hours let it warm up and see if it loosens up, and if it does, I would work the head up and down several times, and lightly spray the columns with dry lube as suggested earlier. The dry lube hangs in there a little better than an oily lubricant. It will also not attract the dust, and cause it to cake up.
Another problem for people to be aware of is moisture caused by condensation from having extreme swings in the shop temp. When the temp changes rapidly that moisture can and will cause some surface rust to start forming. This will definately cause headaches with the columns, and the head ratcheting smoothly.

With complete respect for your frustrations, I wish you the best of luck.

Happy Carving!

Ron

[mtylerfl]

Hello Wodwerking,

In the meantime, and for the present...I use an inexpensive, but very effective oil heater in my workshop/garage. Keeps me happy (I'm comfortable and warm while working in the shop) and my machines are happy too.

Here is a link to a previous post that you may find helpful... http://forum.carvewright.com/showpost.php?p=13156&postcount=17

[wodwerking]

I just can't believe you are so willing to make excuses for poor engineering. The problem with the head not lowering properly has really nothing to do with the machine cutting on x,y or z axisis. Absolutely all that mechanism has to do is push the rollers down against the workpiece with enough force to hold the workpiece in its place and move it along for the machine, and it doesn't really matter if its a planer, a moulding machine, power fed rip saw or a computerized carving machine. It is a separate piece of engineering from the xyz axises and xyz truck. That would be like insisting the engine in your automobile is backfiring because your tire is flat.

It has to do with faulty engineering.

It is sad you are so willing to accept this defect as normal or acceptable instead of dealing with it so that LHR has to resolve it.

Ron aka wodwerking

[Jeff_Birt]

The 'head' that goes up/down on the CW carries the Y and Z axis with it, this it HAS to be precisely positioned over the bottom of the machine on which the X axis feed is mounted. So, yes the head must maintain alignment in all three axis. It is much more complex than any other tool most of use have in our home shops. The biggest point is that the mfg has designed the machine for a stated temperature range and it will make you life MUCH easier to just operate it in that temperature range.

[mtylerfl]

I just can't believe you are so willing to make excuses for poor engineering. The problem with the head not lowering properly has really nothing to do with the machine cutting on x,y or z axisis. Absolutely all that mechanism has to do is push the rollers down against the workpiece with enough force to hold the workpiece in its place and move it along for the machine, and it doesn't really matter if its a planer, a moulding machine, power fed rip saw or a computerized carving machine. It is a separate piece of engineering from the xyz axises and xyz truck. That would be like insisting the engine in your automobile is backfiring because your tire is flat.

It has to do with faulty engineering.

It is sad you are so willing to accept this defect as normal or acceptable instead of dealing with it so that LHR has to resolve it.

Ron aka wodwerking

Hello wodwerking,

I guess I'm a practical person. I think you probably are too.

Since waiting for a re-engineering of the machine won't resolve your current problem any time soon, we are trying to help you the best we know how so you can get busy having fun with your machine immediately.

Try some of our suggestions and see if they'll get you going.

[Dave Boland]

Hey Ron, 4 Days Ago Digital Wksp Showed A Picture Of The Bkottom Of The Machine. Means Removing 12 Screws. You Will Be Able To See The Extension Rod Which Travels The Entire Length From Left To Right. This Rod Is Held In Place With 2 Small Screws And Washers. If One Of These Screws Comes Loose You Will Have Up And Down Problems Like You Mentioned. The Gears Will Not Mesh Properly. One Is Behind Wiring Harness And The Other At Far Right Hand. I Replaced Both Of These With A Stouter Screw And Lubricated The Area Where Washer Engages Bar. Problem Solved, This Will Also Let You Adjust Your Rollers To Be Parallel. Shouldn't Take More Than 30 Minutes.
Hope You Can Use This Info. Dave

[wodwerking]

Dave

I've already had the bottom off. But that isn't the solution either. The problem is in the clutch, it just doesn't have enough grip to lower the head even when the feed rollers aren't touching anything.

Past the clutch, the threaded rod on the handle side, to the connecting rod you are describing that runs underneath the bottom to the threaded rod on the opposite side all work perfect, loaded with lots of lubricant just as it came out of the box.

The problem is the clutch is very poorly designed.

LHR would have been better off leaving the clutch off the machine altogether and progamming the firmware of the machine to show on the LCD screen whenever there is a change in the head adjustment whether the feed rollers are compressed or not, just as it does when you set the options to a sensor check.

That is the only way I can get the machine to work is by setting the sensor check to monitor the feed roller sensors, lower the head by sticking a thin piece of wood though the gap where I can see the raise/lower mechanism, turn the gears with the piece of wood until the sensor shows both the front and rear rollers are compressed.

And MTyler

Yes I consider myself a practical man. But preaching complacency about a definite flaw in ingeneering is not doing fellow Carvewright machine owners and future buyers of the machine any good.

Machines, toys, all kinds of consumer products are recalled all the time for correcting engineering flaws. LHR should really resolve this issue.

But why should they. I am stunned at the people on this forum that keep making excuses why LHR shouldn't have to worry about resolving the problem.

Ron

[Jeff_Birt]

Please call CW and talk to a technician about your head not raising/lowering. In the year I have owned a machine I have only had problems with it not raising/lowering twice. Once was because I cranked it up too far the other was caused by the vertical guide rods needing lubricated. I have found the clutching mechanism to work quite well.

It sounds like your machine has some issue with the clutch, why not call CW about it, I'm sure they will be glad to help.

[andes]

Hello All,

I am very new to CW. I just got my machine and was trying to set it up and get it ready. But I am a bit confused about a couple of issues. First I want to say that I am following the instructions, LOL.

I inserted the Memory card, and turned on the machine expecting to hear the motor, but I didn't. I checked the LCD and its working just fine, so its getting power. Does the motor only start when you actually start a project, or is it suppose to be running as long as the system is on? Then there's the issue with raising the Head? I tried to use the head crank handle and didn't get any movement at all. I don't want to damage the machine before I can even get to use it. So I need to hear from all you folks with knowledge. Please advise.

What am I missing?:(

Ande

[Kenm810]

Hey andes,

The cut motor will only run when have loaded a project on the memory card and a piece of stock for your carving.
There are several steps to follow before the motor will start
Also if you have pulled the red lever out away for the machine, it locks the top of the machine from moving.
If the top of the machine is cranked all the way up it, will bind and not crank down.

[andes]

Ok, thats cool about the motor :p ref the red lever, I did pull it out and still no movement; I don't want to strip the gears trying to get it to move.

Ande

[Jeff_Birt]

You may not have installed the handle properly. Take it back off and push it on slowly. When you start to feel some resistance turn the handle slowly while you continue to push. You will feel it 'snap' into place. Then tighten the screw.

[Kenm810]

The red lever must be pushed parallel with the face of the machine to release the top of the carving machine.
The red lever has become rather redundant, and several folks no longer use it or think it's unnecessary,
I still use it out of habit. But forgets locked occasionaly when I try to move the crank handle.

[andes]

Thanks Ken, got it. I just tried it and it worked; guess I was being just a bit to gentle.Those gears are a bit noisy:p. I need to finish going through the user book and then its time to try a project, wish me luck :D;)

Ande

[Kenm810]

Oh Boy Ande, Quote --Those gears are a bit noisy:p.

a bit noisy,http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif wait till you start caving http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

[andes]

LOL, so I'm in for a treat :D Thanks for the warning :p

Ande

[bamaman315]

Have you checked to see if the sides are level? measure the distance from the top of the front rod to the top of the moving shelf, then check the other side , if they are not at the same distance you will not get a even load on the rollers. If it is not level remove the 12 screws from the bottom plate of your machine, and remove the crew holding the bar with the gear, pull gear away from the splnie and crank the handle til you get the same measurement on both sides, then reinstall everything and give it a try. Hope this helps.

[mkstaats]

First, a little background. CW is new out of the box. The head wouldn't raise or lower. After reading posts, I first checked for level of the head. It was ok. I then took the bottom off and loosened the two screws that hold the tie rod in. I found the left side screw would easily raise and lower the head (while detached from the tierod). I screwed the tierod back in and found there was NO play at all back and forth, so I loosened it a hair on both sides. Still not able to raise or lower the head. I went through the steps to straighten the four guide rods (Except still could not raise the head to square the top). I carefully (looking for washer placement) removed the right side panel. AH! the head moved when I cranked, both up and down. I carefully put the cover (ie. side panel) back on with the washers in the same places as when I removed it. And the head still moved freely. I tightened the top bolts with the head at the top to complete the published proceedure. Checked the head pressure and it was ok, so put everything back together. I've been playing with it and have made three test carvings. Working fine. I should I add, I applied lithium grease to the vertical bars and under the washers that hold the tiebar in place.

[TurtleCove]

....
But why should they. I am stunned at the people on this forum that keep making excuses why LHR shouldn't have to worry about resolving the problem.

Ron

I couldn't agree with Ron more. From the minute this machine hit the market, users have worked around all sorts of design issues with the Carvewright. The problem is, Ron, yelling at the parent company seems to be of little help. The only way manufacturers usually listen, is when sales slip. Money talks the loudest. And this machine being so unique, people continue to buy it...even with all of its issues. All of us up here, already own one of the machines...and we just want to keep using them. And that typically means "work arounds" are in order.

[AskBud]

I couldn't agree with Ron more. From the minute this machine hit the market, users have worked around all sorts of design issues with the Carvewright. The problem is, Ron, yelling at the parent company seems to be of little help. The only way manufacturers usually listen, is when sales slip. Money talks the loudest. And this machine being so unique, people continue to buy it...even with all of its issues. All of us up here, already own one of the machines...and we just want to keep using them. And that typically means "work arounds" are in order.

Turtle, Are you aware that you just replied to a post from 12/4/2007?
AskBud

[TurtleCove]

Looks like it's still a relevant post, since the post just before mine, was only 9 hours earlier.