Flex shaft lube

[kennymill]

As I have read the past posts for the proper lube for the flex shaft I find that most is using the Gunk liquid wrench lube with moly. I also see many have suggested lubing the shaft in a vacuum sealed bag.

My question is; has anyone used ER (Energy Release) straight or diluted to lube the flex shaft? I know this a great heat dissapating lube and extremely slick. We have used it is hydraulics and found the temps to drop considerably. We have also used it in a 10% solution of cutting oil to drill stainless steel and the bits sharpness lasted at least 10 times as long as straight cutting oil.

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Kenny

[Kenm810]

Hi Kenny,

I've not heard of ER (Energy Release) before myself, it dose sound intersting.
What I have read, is that CW flex-shaft needs to be lubed to its core to work properly,
Gunk liquid wrench lube with moly seems to do a pretty good job of that.
What I'm wondering is you know if the ER has the ability to penetrate to the flex-shaft's core the same way?

[kennymill]

Hi Kenny,

I've not heard of ER (Energy Release) before myself, it dose sound intersting.
What I have read, is that CW flex-shaft needs to be lubed to its core to work properly,
Gunk liquid wrench lube with moly seems to do a pretty good job of that.
What I'm wondering is you know if the ER has the ability to penetrate to the flex-shaft's core the same way?

Ken,

I don't see any reason it wouldn't, it is the consistency of about 90 weight oil, that is why I thought about mixing it with the Gunk and vacuum sealing it in my wifes vacuum sealer....of course I will do this when she is not home..:lol: so as not to get the "LOOK"

Kenny

[Kenm810]

Kenny,

I'd wait for a few more replies myself, but seeing you have used it successfully in the past.
If you feel confident enough with the ER to try it, I'd be interested in the results.
Please don't take this as a go a head or a challenge to do it. --- as always I'm just curious about anything new to me. http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif

[oldjoe]

I too have never heard of ER who makes it, but I am not so sure about mixing it with the gunk the two may not play well together. But I think you are headed down and interesting road.
One word of caution though make sure you don't get any drops of the stuff on the vacumm sealer and if you do clean it up. Gotta cover your tracks pretty good to avoid the LOOK

[kennymill]

I too have never heard of ER who makes it, but I am not so sure about mixing it with the gunk the two may not play well together. But I think you are headed down and interesting road.
One word of caution though make sure you don't get any drops of the stuff on the vacumm sealer and if you do clean it up. Gotta cover your tracks pretty good to avoid the LOOK

The original owner and inventor of the product sold the company to The Simplot Corporation several years ago. You cannot purchase it in a store but you can order it online. Here is the website addy of the new owners. http://www.energyrelease.com/index.asp

As far as mixing it with Gunk I don't know either, perhaps I will just mix it with light machine oil instead. This stuff is very slippery and heat resistant. I have treated my vehicles anywhere there is any oil and have wonderful results.

Kenny

[Traveler]

Lube of 90 wt is very heavy and viscous. That is similar to the oil used in car transmissions and it is much heavier than motor oil.

By contrast, the Gunk with moly is very light and that is probably why it penetrates so well. The Gunk lasts over 20 hours, in my experience, and having to relube every 20 hours is not burdonsome.

Using a plastic tube instead of a vacuum bag causes less trouble and is very easy. I let mine stay in the tube for a day. If you are determined to use vacuum, you could hook a vacuum pump to the plastic tube.

If you are determined to experiment, I recommend getting an infrared thermometer and keeping a minute by minute watch on the flex shaft, stopping at 120 degrees. IR thermometers are available at RS for $50 and I've seen them in a Harbor Freight catalog for even less.

T

[Mike]

Remember that the Moly lube is DRY lube. Is ER a drying lub?

[Kenm810]

I've seen and read where the moly in Gunk liquid wrench lube with moly, act like millions of little ball bearings suspended in the oil or liquid that transports them to where they are needed. So you may if you want to, reuse any that is left in the tubing or plastic bag as long as you shake it up to put the moly back into suspension.

Here a photo of the 1/4" tubing I use a couple of days after the Flex-Shaft was removed --- you can see the color difference where the moly has settled to the bottom of the tubing.

[kennymill]

Remember that the Moly lube is DRY lube. Is ER a drying lub?

Mike,

Energy Release is not a lubricant, but works with lubricants such as oils, greases, hydraulic fluids, ATF's, gear lubes, machining and cutting fluids. ER is a pure concentrate that is not diluted with oil. ER is a liquied chemical formula designed to be added to your existing oil to improve and protect moving metal parts.

ER would be a blend with oil. Like I mentioned every other application I have used it for performed excellent. I did send an email to the company trying to get theire take on the situation. If and when I hear back from them I will post their results.

Thanks for all your responses,

Kenny

[rjustice]

Kenny,
For what it's worth, the actual stuff that was originally recommended was "Gunk industrial chain lube with moly"... I vacuum sealed mine using it, went over 80 hours without relube, and tested it during about every other carving, by using the infrared thermometer (i happen to sell them by the way). By monitoring the temps, from end to end on the cable i charted the temps and found that right after lubing, even drying off the excess, it ran about 10 degrees warmer than after the machine ran for around 10 hours, and the lube distributed evenly. For the 3 bucks per can, I would go with something proven. Also, at the point that i re-lubed, my cable still wasn't warmer than when i first lubed it, and when i started running after the re-lube it was again a little warmer until it "broke in" and redistributed the lube again. While it is messy, and as Ken810 mentioned, you have to shake it up to keep the "working" part of the lube in suspension, I am truly a fan of this lube for sure!
Just my personal experience..

Hope this is helpful,

Ron

[Jeff_Birt]

Wow, Ron thanks for sharing your research regarding the "Gunk industrial chain lube with moly". I picked up my can at the local O'Reilly auto parts store, lubed it at around 20 hours. I'm close to 100 hours now and it is still running cool.

[TurkeyBranch]

Kenny,

One of the problems would be, what would your dilution ratio be? Unless you know the quantity of lube the flex shaft core holds, which I doubt any of us do, you would not know how much to use. Although, I would think it could not be more than a 2-3 drops. ER looks like it was developed to work with medium to heavy weight oils. Plus every application I saw it used in was either a contained pressure or bath. The CarveWright has neither, it needs something that will stay in place.

The Gunk Moly would be the way to go for a couple reasons

1 - It is what is recommended by the factory
2 - Gunk with Moly is a dry base

Molybdenum Disulfide will withstand 500,000/lbs psi
Temperature range is -65f to 650f and has been used successfully up to 1000f
Stays bonded to surface at speeds up to 100,000 rpm
stays where it is put, it doesn't run to the bottom of the tube/shaft by the cut motor.

Please don't take me wrong, I love people who are always thinking of a new and better way :D
I just happen to think in this case the better way is the Moly. CarveWright didn't used to use it, then some of the flex shafts were over heating and the engineers did all their boring, testing, junk, stuff and came up with the Gunk chain lube w/Moly as the best solution.

Now if you are willing to test it (I am not asking you or daring you) and share your findings with us that would be great.
We already know the Moly will hold temps down in the 80-90 degree range, with no visible wear to the shaft.

I just am not willing to possibly waste a flex shaft, cut motor and cutter head to try it when the product CarveWright recommends will do the job more than satisfactory.

I am going to try ER in my truck, van, and all my construction equipment, so thanks for putting me on to it. :)

Ed

[kennymill]

Ed,

Very well said. It appears to me that the Gunk is the way to go. I don't want to experiment either as the cost could be too high. As you read about the ER it is a great product but perhaps not for this application.

Thanks again to all who have shared there ideas and thoughts, it is very much appreciated.

Kenny




One of the problems would be, what would your dilution ratio be? Unless you know the quantity of lube the flex shaft core holds, which I doubt any of us do, you would not know how much to use. Although, I would think it could not be more than a 2-3 drops. ER looks like it was developed to work with medium to heavy weight oils. Plus every application I saw it used in was either a contained pressure or bath. The CarveWright has neither, it needs something that will stay in place.

The Gunk Moly would be the way to go for a couple reasons

1 - It is what is recommended by the factory
2 - Gunk with Moly is a dry base

Molybdenum Disulfide will withstand 500,000/lbs psi
Temperature range is -65f to 650f and has been used successfully up to 1000f
Stays bonded to surface at speeds up to 100,000 rpm
stays where it is put, it doesn't run to the bottom of the tube/shaft by the cut motor.

Please don't take me wrong, I love people who are always thinking of a new and better way :D
I just happen to think in this case the better way is the Moly. CarveWright didn't used to use it, then some of the flex shafts were over heating and the engineers did all their boring, testing, junk, stuff and came up with the Gunk chain lube w/Moly as the best solution.

Now if you are willing to test it (I am not asking you or daring you) and share your findings with us that would be great.
We already know the Moly will hold temps down in the 80-90 degree range, with no visible wear to the shaft.

I just am not willing to possibly waste a flex shaft, cut motor and cutter head to try it when the product CarveWright recommends will do the job more than satisfactory.

I am going to try ER in my truck, van, and all my construction equipment, so thanks for putting me on to it. :)

Ed[/QUOTE]

[Traveler]

As rjustice mentioned, I have also noticed the 'break-in' effect where the temperature drops after a few hours of running. I was at first concerned that the temperature wasn't lower, but then it reached some critical temperature and the temperature dropped. I assume that redistribution is the answer.

T