lines in carving

[natman]

I'm getting bad lines in my carvings lately..Could this be a worn bit or some other problem..Also on some carvings it has ripped up the wood like little splinters..This has only happened on soft woods though but the lines are in all projects

[Kenm810]

natman,

I've had the same type of problem caused by two different reasons.
The first was caused by me for not keeping the project board long enough to stay under the front and rear pressure rolles through out the entire carving, if the board moves out from under either roller it can tip up, causing a one or more lines to be carved across the project. The second was caused by dust and chips accumulating under the project between the board and the traction belts causing the board to lift, again resulting in lines being carved across the project. Some folks have also mentioned a project board being to slick on the bottom and slipping on the traction belts again causing more lines. Plus I'm sure there are other reasons some carvers have run across.

[Jeff_Birt]

If you could post a picture that would help a lot. Problems with the z-axis motor/encoder and cause stray lines (that sort of look like scratches). If your bit is loose or damged you could see a similar problem.

[natman]

Thanks Birt..I will try to get some pics on here later..I dont think dust or debris is the problem because I have sent the machine to carvewright 2 times in the past two months for various problems..The lines are across the whole project from beginning to end..The bit has about 100 hours on it with about 50 hours on soft wood and the other on red oak and cherry..Could be a bad bit..I know the projects are under the rolleres the whole time because I leave 6 inches on each side to compensate for that.Pretty sure it is not a bad problem just need to figure out what it is..Thanks

[Gunner]

Natman,

I was having the same problem.In the cumpucarve manual pg. 41, it explains how to do a Calibrating Machine Offsets .
This tuned up my machine right away.

Gunner

[natman]

Thanks gunner...I ran a system test on it earlier and it said that the rear roller was compressed even though it was raised all the way up. I could not get it uncompressed no matter what I did..Did a test carving today on cherry wood..Just did a carve region .500 deep and 3 wide by 4 long on best setting..still gouged and scratched it the entire way..Could the compression roller being stuck in compressed be the problem or what? Cherry should have been almost as smooth as a babies bottom if you know what I mean..

[liquidguitars]

Check your bits to see if any are slipping out ot the adapters.

LG

[pappajack]

What you might try is to look at what it is you are carving, buy bringing the subject up as close as you can see after you upload picture on to the board you might find the picture is or has a lot of what I call extra picils around the edges I found this when I was working on plastic also they are off to the sides so check the entire picture this happens a lot when you copy or scan this is your problum take your picture into a photo program and erase all extra lines and etc also you can enlarge the lines to stop them from breaking or raise the depth of your cut hope this helps. pappajack

[oldjoe]

Just one quick thought got the idea from Pkunk a board can actually be too smooth so that it will slip during carving. Just another thing to consider. I know I have had that problem with MDF the brass encoder wheel would slip accross it rather then roll in spots.
Good luck.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Masking Tape is your Carve Friend..... Just run a strip of masking tape the whole length of the board where the Brass Roller rides.... Just like a new paving job....

AL


WOW 1002 posts.... Blabber Poster...... :)

[natman]

Checked compression on the rollers and they were still getting 84 lbs on the scales..Called Carvewright and they told me to format and delete files on card.Did that and ran another .250 deep carve region 6inhes by 6inches on a perfect piece of cherry..still got lines during entire carve from the feathering to the end..Tried all options we could think of to fix this problem..Me and the wife are thinking of giving it to the highest bidder if we cannot get it working right soon.I haven't gotten a project done since May due to errors,stalls,roller problems,cut motors,z truck,x and y travel problems,lines in carvings. You name it we have had the problems to occur..The machine has 100 hours on it and about 3 months left on warranty..If this machine has to go back again I may call the better business bureau to see what options I have..Needless to say I am highly dissappointed in the quality of this 2,000 dollar piece of equipment. I am not knocking the technicians I have talked to or anyone else that has helped me out,so please don't take me to be a total butt. That 2,000 could have been spent on my children or other needy things around the home. If anyone else has any idea as to what the problem is please feel free to let me know or give me ideas before I do something irrational..

[mtylerfl]

Hello Natman,

Please post a picture or two to help us see exactly what's happening at your end. Thanks!

[natman]

Here are the pics so as to help out..As you can see it doesn't matter if it is cherry or pine..This machine doesn't show favorites..These are tests I've done in the past few days

[natman]

Here are two more views of the lines

[Lin]

Thinking you have probably already checked this out...but the one time I had lines come up similar to what I see in your carvings...was a adapter that one of the set screws was loose on. The bit itself must have been loose also thou I could not move it but the set screw I was able to unscrew by hand...new bit and holder from LHR and I didn't check it before loading it into the machine. The bit adapter looked farily dinged up after that carve...first carve on the bit and adapter and I had a heck of a time getting it outta the chuck...so I didn't use it again...new adapter and new bit and have not seen those lines since...just a thought.
Lin

[Kenm810]

If your project boards are perfectly flat on both Top, bottom, and square along the edges,
and getting these carved line in all your projects.
I would email these photos to LHR's Techs to get their opinion of what's causing it.

[mtylerfl]

Hello Natman,

Well, we can certainly see the lines alright! I'm sure LHR will be able to solve the problem for you.

It looks like what I would imagine could happen if the rollers are not maintaining a constant pressure, therefore allowing the board to move slightly up and down whilst performing the carve. (That's just a guess on my part - I don't know if that's even possible for the roller pressure to ebb and flow.)

Wouldn't rule out the possibility of a variable 'z issue' either, but I'll leave that to the experts at LHR to determine.

My guess is that they'll want the machine to troubleshoot in-house to be able to make an accurate determination of the cause. I hope you'll be able to hang in there if that becomes necessary.

[JOHNB]

It's The Z-motor!

[natman]

We just had the motor and z truck replaced as well as a cover switch and cut motor..There was also a problem in the side to side travel and a bunch of stalls and errors..I'll hang in there for one more try and see how it goes..Talked earlier today to a tech and he said that he didn't know what caused this to happen other than to check compression rollers and format my flash card..I was hoping to have it running good in a few weeks to present the machine and it's abilities to the school board in hopes to get a few for the high schools around here..They have not received anything in the past couple of years at there wood tecnologies classes and I believe that if these machines can hold up it would be a good investment to the students. I know the teachers at the schools and they like the idea so I volunteered to help out in any way to get the approval or to seek other ways to raise the money for a couple machines...Thanks everyone for the help..Just got a little carried away earlier since I haven't got a project done since May.

[mtylerfl]

Hello Natman,

What a great idea for the wood technology classes! It will be a nice addition for them and it's very good of you to volunteer your time to help them out.

I'm very sorry that you've had some issues with the machine, but it is SO GREAT when everything's running properly as it normally does, although I understand it must not seem that way to you right now.

Sounds like you and your wife have the stamina to carry on, and make the 'dream come true' for you and the schools. Good for you!

[Digitalwoodshop]

I hate to be the Party Pooper but I am betting it is Operator Error. Sorry....

No it's NOT the Z. The Humming Bird does not have any errors...... You can take the BBB off Speed Dial.

Now that I have your attention.... The first thing that POPS out to me is the lines DO NOT go over the carving, just in the depressed area.

If it DID also show up in the top carving then I would suspect:

1. Loose Bit
2. Loose Chuck.... Had that today for the very first time.... No Lock Tite from LHR....
3. Board TOO short and is popping up when it comes to the inside of the roller. Or on the cutting head side of the roller. For BEST carving quality always have more wood, 3.5 inches on each side of the project length so BOTH rollers hold the wood to the table and don't let it lift.

So I don't think it is any of the above but they must be ruled out by the user.

Back to operator Error... The Artwork is flawed in my opinion... The background is not a solid color.... I believe.

To test this theory start a new project and draw a rectangle the size you now have. Select Carve Region and select a depth. This will be a Machine or computer generated depth with no variables like bad artwork.

Let it CUT. If it cuts bad then call LHR. If it carves good then the machine is NOT at fault. No need to call the BBB..... ( That raises my hackles )

Please don't be offended by my cander.... I have over 600 carving hours between both machines and I still have not mastered the artwork....

AL

[mtylerfl]

One thing I thought I noticed on the hummingbird photo - - - to the left of the carving, the board surface looks "wavey". Thought I may have been 'seeing things' though, so didn't mention it.

The "waves" on the board surface do seem to correspond (in a mirrored fashion) to the right side of that particular carving now that I'm looking at it again.

I THINK Natman is running his project under the rollers at all times (got that impression from one of his earlier posts) so in my mind, eliminated board lifting related to it leaving the rollers.

As you pointed out AL, it is mysterious that the lines don't seem to travel over the pattern, but maybe that's just because they don't show up in the photos, or I need new glasses again!!

Keep hangin' in there Natman - we're all anxious to help figure this one out with you!

[Digitalwoodshop]

I agree. The quick test is to cut a carve region with no photo input to check the equipment. That will half split the troubleshooting.

You came to the right place for help.... Saw another post this evening and I was the first to respond but by the time I got done typing I was something like number 5....... Like a bunch of Boy Scouts just waiting for the little old lady to get near a crosswalk.....

I am getting slow in the typing department....

L:) :)K

AL

If he had not posted the pictures he would most likely have LHR sending him a bunch of parts or asking for the machine.... Still don't think it's the machine....

[mtylerfl]

I think we just want everyone to have fun with their machines is why we all jump on to assist and encourage in whatever way we can!

There, I crossed the crosswalk again.;)

[liquidguitars]

My 2 cents... only a few things that could make happen, you have a loose bit in your adapter or a bad chuck.
I have had this happen when my 1/4 bits came loose. The bit is jumping out of the adapter making a up and down groove in the wood as it carves.


WOW 1002 posts.... Blabber Poster...... yea I noticed you where running up on 1000.. good work!

LG

[mtylerfl]

Can't wait for the results of the test AL suggested. It will be interesting to see what the problem turns out to be for sure.

[natman]

Will do a carve region test to let everyone see it is not user error..If you look at the turkey photo I first posted it has lines in the carving as well..I'll take another photo of it as well in different lighting..Give me an hour and I will see if I can find a good piece of cherry or something to use..Back later

[natman]

Here are the pics of a carve region test only as well as others..The carve region test was on .718 thick cherry board 5 inches wide by 20 long..Carve region area was 3.9 inches by 8 inches so as to leave plenty under the rollers as usual..Perfect board used..still have the infamous lines

[liquidguitars]

Natman,

looks like you could use a new carving bit as I see some wood fibers on the top surface of the cutting plane.

LG

[Azbear]

Carry on wayward son. I have had and read of machine issues on this forum that drives one to want to pitch this thing into a ditch or in the middle of a non rush hour traffic lane at times, but really, keep calm and cool. The end results will make you wonder how in the heck did I aquire such a talent.

Grab the rope and hang in there.

All is right in this world we carve in.

[mtylerfl]

Here are the pics of a carve region test only as well as others..The carve region test was on .718 thick cherry board 5 inches wide by 20 long..Carve region area was 3.9 inches by 8 inches so as to leave plenty under the rollers as usual..Perfect board used..still have the infamous lines

Natman,

Have you contacted LHR again and emailed them the photos? I'm sure they'll have some idea what is causing this and come up with a remedy.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I stand Corrected it IS Machine Error not Operator Error. Sorry about that. No hard feelings please.

You can email the pictures to support@carvewright.com

Could be loose bearings too. But it looks like your Box will get a workout shipping it back.

Be prepared as when it comes back it will have the new Z Bundle and you will need to follow the instructions to upgrade to 1.121 or you will get the Scan Area Error until you do.

1-800-573-1226 LHR And they do have 2 Techs answering the phone on Saturday, Option 4.

Good Luck,

AL

[natman]

Allready have the new z bundle from the last time it was sent in.This will be number 3 and the box is looking pretty rough from the past two times..Hope they give me a new box because it may not make it this time:smile:

[mtylerfl]

Hello Natman,

You might want to purchase some rigid box-corner "supports" from your local office supply store. Reinforces the box from the outside.

[natman]

Got a newe one for you guys..It now says back roller fault 204..It won't measure a board just feeds all the way through..I'm going to call right now and see what happens today..When it rains it pours:rolleyes:

[Jeff_Birt]

Your rear compression roller switch is stuck closed. You can verify in teh sensor test menu (turn on machine press 0, then 7, scroll to correct page). This is normally caused by sawdust build up. There was also a post a few days ago about curing this problem. Might be worth searching for.

[natman]

Got the roller fixed for sure..Cleaned that sucker like new and no problem at all. I did a small sign for a friends daughters birthday with two unicorns and a heart with her name on it out of white pine just to see how things went today.. I goofed and used the carving bit to do the text .125 deep..The bit got a little blue due to heat as I'm sure you would guess it would..The unicorn and heart were set at .150 deep and they seemed to do good with no lines in them..We ordered a new bit 2 days ago so before I get any more upset I'm going to see what it does with the roller issue being settled and a new bit installed..You fellows did say to use blue loctite on the set screws didn't you...Do you possibly think it was a combination of the bit and the rear roller issue?

[mtylerfl]

Got the roller fixed for sure..Cleaned that sucker like new and no problem at all. I did a small sign for a friends daughters birthday with two unicorns and a heart with her name on it out of white pine just to see how things went today.. I goofed and used the carving bit to do the text .125 deep..The bit got a little blue due to heat as I'm sure you would guess it would..The unicorn and heart were set at .150 deep and they seemed to do good with no lines in them..We ordered a new bit 2 days ago so before I get any more upset I'm going to see what it does with the roller issue being settled and a new bit installed..You fellows did say to use blue loctite on the set screws didn't you...Do you possibly think it was a combination of the bit and the rear roller issue?

Hello,

Your bit should not be turning blue from heat - I don't think the bit ever should get that hot - slighly warm is all I have ever noticed, even after a 6 hour carve.

Maybe the problem was indeed a combo of a bad bit and dirty compression rollers.

Thanks for keeping us informed!

[oldjoe]

Yes use the blue loctite on the bit screws red is permanent. Blue just a some heat and it will break free. Make sure the screws and bit adapter is free from oil before you apply it.
As far as the bit turning blue in pine the bit probably got of build up of sap on it clogging the cutting flutes creating much more drag on the bit.