Clear boartd sensor

[STEAM]

I know that this has been discussed at length here in the forum. However I have been having this error today and found a "workaround" that seems to work fine.
Simply put what I did was: First make sure that the sensor was reading correctly which it was. A reading around 156 with my hand or a piece of wood. Then I took a piece of fine sandpaper and lightly marred the finish of both the glide plate and the squaring plate. I only did about an inch on each plate right below where the sensor crosses them. This makes the plates less reflective. That way when the infrared signal hits these areas it will not bounce back as much of a signal. But when it passes over the board edge the signal will rise greatly and the computer can then detect the board edge better. I think that if the plates (in this crossover area) were painted a flat black( at the factory) it would greatly improve the accuracy of the sensor.
I work in industrial electronics and with infrared sensors quite often.

In no way am I suggesting you should paint these areas yourself. If you don't know what you are doing you could severely damage your machine.

[Jeff_Birt]

Interesting idea...Out of curiosity what board thickness were you having trouble with that prompted you to try this?

[STEAM]

3/4 inch red oak

[Jeff_Birt]

I was curious if you were cutting thinner stock which can cause problems for the board sensor. As you found out it looks for the difference between the amount of reflection on the board and off the board rather than an absolute value. In your case it seems like you sensor is very sensitive and there was not a significant difference in sensor readings on and off the board. Your idea to scuff up the paint is clever, good show!

[STEAM]

I'll have to try different thicknesses and types of wood to see how it fares. I'll post my results later.

[dhauptman]

I am having the same problem but when I put my hand under the sensor or another piece of wood, the sensor reading is between 0 and 7. Does that mean my sensor is bad? Anything else I can try?

Thanks,
David

[Digitalwoodshop]

Yes, this is an interesting concept....

AL

[oldjoe]

David I just replaced my board sensor for the same reason I could not get it to go past 15. So I called LHR and they sent me a new one. I just put it in and have to check what my readings are and call them back. I am assuming you have taken it out and blown it out and wiped it off then retested it.

[dhauptman]

I haven't taken it out yet. I wasn't sure I could. Is it pretty easy to remove?

[STEAM]

I am having the same problem but when I put my hand under the sensor or another piece of wood, the sensor reading is between 0 and 7. Does that mean my sensor is bad? Anything else I can try?

Thanks,
David

Most likely it is either dirty, or bad. An infrared sensor should last the life of your machine. If you have thoroughly cleaned the sensor, try using a mirror. If you still get a low reading then most likely it is bad. However, that is not a call for me to make. That will be up to the techs at LHR. I am in no way affiliated with LHR.

I would be willing to bet that the receiver of the pair is giving LHR the most trouble. The transmitter is basically just an LED and those things last forever. Just consider what is in most TV remotes. Those are mostly infrared.
At work we replace quite a few more receivers than transmitters. It's just the nature of the beast.

[dhauptman]

Most likely it is either dirty, or bad. An infrared sensor should last the life of your machine. If you have thoroughly cleaned the sensor, try using a mirror. If you still get a low reading then most likely it is bad. However, that is not a call for me to make. That will be up to the techs at LHR. I am in no way affiliated with LHR.

I would be willing to bet that the receiver of the pair is giving LHR the most trouble. The transmitter is basically just an LED and those things last forever. Just consider what is in most TV remotes. Those are mostly infrared.
At work we replace quite a few more receivers than transmitters. It's just the nature of the beast.
I put a mirror under the sensor and got a reading of 108. Seems like the sensor is working but not like it should. I'll try a thorough cleaning. Is it easy to take out? I see two screws on the bottom. Looks like it will come out if I remove them. Anything I need to look out for?

[STEAM]

I have not had to remove mine yet so I am unsure. If you do a search of the forum you will find instructions on how to do it properly.

[Jeff_Birt]

I know I am taking this off topic, but I could not resist...


I would be willing to bet that the receiver of the pair is giving LHR the most trouble. The transmitter is basically just an LED and those things last forever.

<This is mostly about industrial sensors, but applies to any optical sensor>
While LED's do last 100,000 hours or more their output intensity falls over this time period to a point where they are no longer usable. Although the photo-diode/photo-transistor in the receivers can/will degrade over time (more likely chemical or mechanical damage to the housing though), when you install a new receiver only it works as there is no damage to the housing, even though the LED is weak. The least little bit of housing damage and the weak LED is no longer sufficient to drive the receiver. You wind up having to replace receivers a lot as the transmitters are weak. It's been my experience that they are best replaced in pairs. YMMV...

These parts can also be temperature dependent. That's part of the reason why LHR recommends a minimum environmental temperature for the machine. Dollars to donuts we see more board sensor related problems this winter :D

[STEAM]

You are right Jeff. I stand corrected.

[dhauptman]

That worked! It was not difficult to remove and clean. I did a search and found the instructions. It was pretty caked with dust. I gave it a good cleaning and it is working like new. Thanks to all who responded.

David

[Digitalwoodshop]

Please use caution cleaning the sensor and not pull on the wires going up as I had pulled my wires and they slid down along a plastic track at the top. Eventually pinching through the insulation shorting out the sensor.

AL

[STEAM]

Dulling the finish of the two plates did help with edge detection. However, now when the CW is measuring a board it will run it out the back of the machine and gives the clear board sensor again. When I got the machine last Friday I saw then that the sensor did not have a clear window covering it. I thought it was an updated version. Then when I found the "directing cover for the board sensor" on the floor I wasn't so sure. http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=4654 The sensor still gives great reading but it's still not working quite right. I called LHR and explained everything to them. They are sending a new board sensor. My learning curve has been pretty steep. In four days I have managed to break both the cutting and carving bits that came with the CW and now I need a new sensor. Discouraged? Maybe a little.. Giving up? NO WAY. I like the potential of what the CarveWright can do. I want to learn and use it as much as possible. I have always hoped someone would invent a CNC like this. I have tons of ideas of what to make but have ZERO woodcarving skills. This will allow me to accomplish the things I want to do. :D

[JOHNB]

Tt, If Your Board Is Running Out Of Machine, It May Be The The Roller Compress When It Should Be Released? Check On Keypad-0,7

[STEAM]

Tt, If Your Board Is Running Out Of Machine, It May Be The The Roller Compress When It Should Be Released? Check On Keypad-0,7

Thanks John. I went though the whole sensors check list before I called LHR. It seems to be working correct. They told me that, If after I install the new sensor and still have problems to give them a call back.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Last time I had material run out of the machine it was engraving plastic....

What I learned in the last 7 months since that happened is to use a Carrier board. Just cut a piece of plywood 1/4 or 3/8 to the same width of your wood or plastic and masking tape the two together. No sides or side boards so it is not a sled but a carrier board.

I use it to cut clocks and have scrap on each end and only waste about 1/4 inch of stock during final trimming.

Breaking the bits makes me wonder if you are using too thin a material or too hard a material. What are you using?

Like Jeff said... rollers.... If the material is too thin then the rollers don't change states...

AL

[STEAM]

Breaking the bits makes me wonder if you are using too thin a material or too hard a material. What are you using?

Like Jeff said... rollers.... If the material is too thin then the rollers don't change states...

AL

I broke the cutting bit Saturday. That was a piece of poplar. I am pretty sure that I just didn't have it seated in the chuck properly. The carving bit I broke yesterday on a piece of 3/4 inch red oak from Home Depot. It was about 1/3 into the carving when it dove into the board and flew out. The carving up to that point was terrible. The wood just wasn't good quality to carve. I wont be using that type again. I have about a weeks wait on my new bits so I'm going to spend the time learning the software and designing some patterns.

Also both boards that have run out of the machine were either 3/4" or 1/2". I should state that the board has stayed under the back roller (compressed). The machine stops at that point and gives the clear sensor error.(After the board has cleared the sensor but still under the back roller)
If I hit enter at that point it just continues the board all the out of the machine.

[JOHNB]

(QUOTE)-The carving bit I broke yesterday on a piece of 3/4 inch red oak from Home Depot. It was about 1/3 into the carving when it dove into the board and flew out. The carving up to that point was terrible. The wood just wasn't good quality to carve.
THAT'S NOT BECAUSE OF THE WOOD, BUT I'M SURE IT HAS TO DO WITH THE Z-MOTOR.

[RC Woodworks]

John, I agree with you sounds like the Z truck. My # 2 machine is plunging the bit right through the board. Is your machine making a different noise like the alliens are landing! A choppy sound and your carving was very chippy? If so it will be a matter of time when it will goe out.

The other thing you might check to see if your bit chuck came loose.

Rick

[STEAM]

John, I agree with you sounds like the Z truck. My # 2 machine is plunging the bit right through the board. Is your machine making a different noise like the alliens are landing! A choppy sound and your carving was very chippy? If so it will be a matter of time when it will goe out.

The other thing you might check to see if your bit chuck came loose.

Rick

OK. First things first. This is going to show my ignorance of the CW but how can I tell if the bit chuck is loose?

Second. I finally had time to remove the board sensor. Of course the directing cover was broke. That I already knew. When I removed the sensor I found that one of the screw eyelets was crushed. To me it looks like the screw may have been over tightened. Do any of you know if they use a torque wrench when they install these? I'm just curious.
I can see how it may have been causing edge problems if it was not correctly aligned. Also I see now why you have to clean them out so often. The opening to the receiver is very small. I understand why they designed it the way it is but I would think there is a better way to go about it. If they would seal the housing better it would greatly help with the dust problem. (like I'm the first to think of that Right??) Also fiber optics in the receiver channel might help. Sorry... I'm starting to ramble on.

Any way thanks for the input. I am going to check how well my bits are seating and check the chuck.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Fiber optics was mentioned months ago. Omron makes a few with fiber optics detectors, I worked with then at Sony.

Loose bit chuck.... Recommend contact rjustice who sells a great wrench and square drive adapter that will make changing the chuck a lot more fun.... Need a hair dryer to heat chuck before removing due to the Lock Tite. Use the wrench to check tightness.

Since your asking questions, things I recommend you buy and have on hand.

1 replacement Quick Chuck
1 Set of Sand Paper Belts or more (save on shipping next time.)
1 X 1st stage gear for the sand paper drive.

2 Cut Motor Brushes at 250 hours.

Beats waiting a week....

If your chuck gets worn replace it.... See photos below.... The damage to the middle one was from just 1 hour of use. Ruined 4 bit holders.... Worn replace it.... Or you will pay extra as you will destroy bit holders. Since I changed the worn chuck I have not had another damaged bit holder. Pay now or Pay MORE later..... See the indentation in the center of the center bit.

AL

[RC Woodworks]

OK. First things first. This is going to show my ignorance of the CW but how can I tell if the bit chuck is loose?

Second. I finally had time to remove the board sensor. Of course the directing cover was broke. That I already knew. When I removed the sensor I found that one of the screw eyelets was crushed. To me it looks like the screw may have been over tightened. Do any of you know if they use a torque wrench when they install these? I'm just curious.
I can see how it may have been causing edge problems if it was not correctly aligned. Also I see now why you have to clean them out so often. The opening to the receiver is very small. I understand why they designed it the way it is but I would think there is a better way to go about it. If they would seal the housing better it would greatly help with the dust problem. (like I'm the first to think of that Right??) Also fiber optics in the receiver channel might help. Sorry... I'm starting to ramble on.

Any way thanks for the input. I am going to check how well my bits are seating and check the chuck.


TT, you will know the bit chuck is loose by the sound it makes and checking by hand. If you are to un screw by hand it is loose. The only way I could tighten it was by removing the flex shaft and with an allen wrench and a pair of channel locks. It does have a nut you can tighten, but you need a thin wrench. I was in a pinch and needed my CC for the fair I was working so I found an allen wrench that was the same size as the flex cable and used the channel locks.

I too have the board sensor problem, using redwood it has a fine dust. I pull my sensor it was loaded with dust. Plus the screws seemed loose. I use compressed air when I don't have time to pull the sensor and it works.

Rick

[hunkeydorey]

Anyone know how to isolate the "Please check your board" errors?

My first project is on hold because on unresolved "board errors" using my 1/2" ball nose bit to route grovess in the side boards of a new coffee table. It is a piece of 2"W, 3/4"D, and 17"L hard Maple. The first three went AOK except I noticed that the software did two long passes for the first board and on the subsequent boards just used one heavier pass. In fact, I got an overload possible error which I ignored thinking it was the hard maple.

It was on my fourth board that the system went south. Arggghhh!

So far, I have tried four different boards, gone through all trouble shooting; e.g. the sensor checks, X, Y, Z checks, and blew out the sensors with no noticeable help. I also reloaded my project via software from my PC just in case to no avail. I really do not want to throw parts at the problem until I am certain they will fix the problem (old CPU specialist). I also realize that engineering and service did not get the build in diagnostics needed to identify the root issues.

Anyone have any ideas for a next step?

Sorry to ramble on but hope the data helps.

Newbie hunkeydorey

[badger]

(QUOTE)-The carving bit I broke yesterday on a piece of 3/4 inch red oak from Home Depot. It was about 1/3 into the carving when it dove into the board and flew out. The carving up to that point was terrible. The wood just wasn't good quality to carve.
THAT'S NOT BECAUSE OF THE WOOD, BUT I'M SURE IT HAS TO DO WITH THE Z-MOTOR.


Same thing to me, same wood but my bit didnt fly out the very tip of it just broke off. Noticed it had carved about 1/3 and by the time I noticed it all it was doing was just barely reaching the surface of the wood and not even leaving a mark on it. Figured then I needed a new bit. Too bad on a Friday since I ordered it, it wont shipped til at least Mon or Tues now.

[STEAM]

I checked the bit chuck for tightness and it seems to be in good shape. I really think that I didn't have the bit seated properly. I also hadn't checked the screws holding the bit in the adapter. They may have been loose. While the machine was carving it sounded normal, No whines or clunking. I am just going to mark it off as inexperience. I received my replacement bits today and the new board sensor should be here tomorrow. This time I am going to make sure everything is correct and tightened like it should be. If it still dives into the wood I will contact LHR about the z-motor. I really hope its not that. I have only been able to do 1 project before breaking the bits and the sensor problem. It's like being a kid with a new toy and being told you can look at it but you cant play with it yet!

[william feador]

I know I am taking this off topic, but I could not resist...



<This is mostly about industrial sensors, but applies to any optical sensor>
While LED's do last 100,000 hours or more their output intensity falls over this time period to a point where they are no longer usable. Although the photo-diode/photo-transistor in the receivers can/will degrade over time (more likely chemical or mechanical damage to the housing though), when you install a new receiver only it works as there is no damage to the housing, even though the LED is weak. The least little bit of housing damage and the weak LED is no longer sufficient to drive the receiver. You wind up having to replace receivers a lot as the transmitters are weak. It's been my experience that they are best replaced in pairs. YMMV...

These parts can also be temperature dependent. That's part of the reason why LHR recommends a minimum environmental temperature for the machine. Dollars to donuts we see more board sensor related problems this winter :D

Is their a test or the sensor that I missed. I have taken the sensor out cleaned it several times but still get clear board sensor. I do order a new one and how much? I would pefer a mailing address instead of going over the net. thanx.

[Kenm810]

Call LHR, CC or CW Machines

Talk to one of the Techs, and they'll talk you through it.
If it's within warranty they may mail you one N/C, Give it a try.

LHR Technologies, Inc.
4930 Allen Genoa Road
Pasadena, TX. 77504

CarveWright
You can contact CarveWright by phone at
1-713-473-6572 1-713 473-6545 or 1-800-573-1226
email at support@carvewright.com.
New hours are Monday-Saturday 9a-6p Central Time.

[David Myers]

I too have been having numerous problems with clear board sensor. Edge detect error 400.
I removed the sensor and cleaned re-installed sensor readings still low. Call Tech support and told that they were having a lot of problems due to bad sensors from supply vendor.
I was told they would replace sensor under warranty and it would only be a $5.00 core charge. I had my choice of sending the sensor back before they would send me a new one or pay a $5.00 core charge. I chose to pay the $5.00 core charge. But when I got the order notice from CraveWright they had charged me $40.00 core charge now I have to spend a few hours on the phone to get in touch with them to try and straighten this out.
Be carefull when ordering from them this is not the first time they have over charged me.

David

[Bob Rodgers]

I had a board sensor go bad a couple months ago. The problem was dust getting on the top side of the LED window where you can't get at it. Even compressed air would not clean it. I called CW and they sent me a new one at N/C. No problems with the sensor since then.

[David Myers]

I received my new board sensor yesterday. LHR has been listening to our concerns.
The new sensor was sealed with some type of clear sealer. The access plate on the back was sealed close and the circuit board was glued to the black case. It looked like they had encapsulated it so no dust can get in behind the clear window over the diodes. I installed it and started a test run and all my problems (clear board sensor, edge detection failure error 400, load board, etc..) have gone away. Now if we can get LHR to add about a 1/4" more lenght to the wire to the plug it would be a whole lot easier to remove and reinstall. Way to go LHR. I hope this sensor lasts longer that 40 hours of cut time.

David