Finishing with Black Paint

[911guy]

Yes, another newbie question but this is actually has to do with finishing a workpiece.

I am making a sign for a friend who is a dentist. After the carving, I sanded then sprayed a hefty coat of acrylic sealer on the workpiece. After drying, I sprayed some black spray paint onto the lettering (sort of a heavy coating I might add), then sanded after drying.

Problem is I can't seem to get ALL of the paint off. I've tried a heavier grain sandpaper than the 220 grit I have. I've attached some pictures below.

I am looking for feedback if anyone knows is the acrylic sealer the correct product to use for sealing the grain (to avoid the blemish look) prior to spray painting or have I just used too much paint? Or, maybe little of both? I'm learning here....Thanks!
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[pkunk]

Yes, another newbie question but this is actually has to do with finishing a workpiece.

I am making a sign for a friend who is a dentist. After the carving, I sanded then sprayed a hefty coat of acrylic sealer on the workpiece. After drying, I sprayed some black spray paint onto the lettering (sort of a heavy coating I might add), then sanded after drying.

Problem is I can't seem to get ALL of the paint off. I've tried a heavier grain sandpaper than the 220 grit I have. I've attached some pictures below.

I am looking for feedback if anyone knows is the acrylic sealer the correct product to use for sealing the grain (to avoid the blemish look) prior to spray painting or have I just used too much paint? Or, maybe little of both? I'm learning here....Thanks!
4913

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220 is way too fine for removing paint. I don't know about acrylic sealer, I use a waterborn laquer, and 80 or 100 grit to get back to bare wood, then 120 to ready for final coats. You just need to sand more-It'll look great. :)

[911guy]

Thanks Pkunk. I will definately try that!

Would you happen to know what brand of waterborn laquer you use off hand?

[Kenm810]

There maybe more then a few answers the this problem.

The one that happened to me a few time is when I get a little to eager to finish with the sander. If you see any of the paint sticking or bonding to the sand paper or sanding disc, your using to much speed or to much pressure. the paint or finish is breaking down due to the excess friction and fusing itself to the abrasive and at the same time into the surface. the more pressure you apply the deeper it goes. until you finally damage the surface with sanded dents or groves. It's a matter of touch --- sometime a little less pressure and a few minutes longer sanding can produce better results.

[pkunk]

Sherwin Williams. I believe it's only available in 5 gal. pails though. I used to use another commercial waterbased sanding sealer, & it worked well, too. You really need a sealer that is designed to seal/soak into the wood pores, & raise the grain. Then my final sanding is RO at 120g lightly, final coat (or 2) of a high quality satin.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I have run into the same problem with spray paint. The thinness of it lets it soak deep in cracks and end grain. I switched to thicker latex to see if that helps.

In one picture, I took too much off with my planer. Others show the black paint bleeding into the end grain.... I am trying sanding sealer before brushed latex.

Still learning.

AL

[911guy]

If you see any of the paint sticking or bonding to the sand paper or sanding disc, your using to much speed or to much pressure.

That is a good point Ken. I did find some of the paint on the sandpaper, I was also using 220 and 150 grit sandpaper. Yes, I was eager to get it off. Always some great tips from you guys. I appreciate it.

[pkunk]

There maybe more then a few answers the this problem.

The one that happened to me a few time is when I get a little to eager to finish with the sander. If you see any of the paint sticking or bonding to the sand paper or sanding disc, your using to much speed or to much pressure. the paint or finish is breaking down due to the excess friction and fusing itself to the abrasive and at the same time into the surface. the more pressure you apply the deeper it goes. until you finally damage the surface with sanded dents or groves. It's a matter of touch --- sometime a little less pressure and a few minutes longer sanding can produce better results.
You are also correct, Ken. I slow my 6" Festool 150-5 down to less than 1/2 speed to remove paint. 80 g. Rubin will not clog at that speed as lonf as it is dry stuff I'm removing. I'll be in a hurry sometimes, and use a soaped paper if the finish isn't fully cured. Another thing I'll do on a sign under 8" is swipe a 64th off on the jointer and then sand to 120g. Now if I only had a 12" jointer......:)

[911guy]

Thanks Pkunk.

Digital, That is the exact problem I am having. Perhaps I will try your new method along with pkunk's answer.

Yes, I tried 60 grit and wasn't in a hurry with it still had the grain soaking issue yet it was a little better with the spotting. Always learning I guess.

[castingman]

Boy you guys are great! I got centerline last week and cut two sample signs. I have been reading the posts and learning how to proceed, thanks to all of you i now have a plan. Thanks Michael

[Dave-Carve]

Hi Carvers
I use 2 or 3 coats of Rustoleum "Crystal Clear Enamel" or Minwax "FastDrying Polyurethane" BEFORE PAINT Seals all grain and end grain!
1 real dry coat (doesnt clog up woodgrain) 1 Real wet coat (seals first coat doesnt clog top grain but does seal cutouts )dryes in apx 10 min sandable in apx 30 min (some times I spray some boards BEFORE CARVE):p
then spraypaint letters or what ever sand with 180 back to woodgrain and stain then poly 3-4 coats works well for me :D

[911guy]

Thanks Dave. I am compiling all these great answers and am trying them one at a time, starting with sanding sealer....Something has to work!

[bobreda]

I use zinser sealcoat prior to carving, at least 2 coats, sanding in between. Once I carve and before I paint I put on another coat, especially over the area that was carved. Often times, if you don't , the paint will actually bleed under the seal coat from the fresh cut carving, which makes it real difficult to sand out.

Bob

[911guy]

I use zinser sealcoat prior to carving, at least 2 coats, sanding in between.

Bob, is Zinser the brand name? Where do you buy it? Maybe a Home Depot or online? Thanks, another recommendation stored.

[jonweis]

Bob, is Zinser the brand name? Where do you buy it? Maybe a Home Depot or online? Thanks, another recommendation stored. Actually just unwaxed shellac but a great sealer with lot's and lot's of uses. Ace carries it as do most of the 'big box" stores and lot's of paint stores as well.:D :D :D

[Kenm810]

911guy

Here a little head start about zinsser's product line.

www.imex.com/catalog/zinsser-c.html (http://www.imex.com/catalog/zinsser-c.html)

http://www.zinsser.com (http://www.zinsser.com/)

[911guy]

Actually just unwaxed shellac but a great sealer with lot's and lot's of uses.

Jon, I have played with shellac before (not in this application) and I know it can get pretty thick. Would you apply that around the grain for the letters, then paint them, then just sand the remaining off?

[911guy]

I have run into the same problem with spray paint. The thinness of it lets it soak deep in cracks and end grain. I switched to thicker latex to see if that helps.

In one picture, I took too much off with my planer. Others show the black paint bleeding into the end grain.... I am trying sanding sealer before brushed latex.

Still learning.

AL

Yea I think I am going to use a latex as well. I could really use a planer too but unfortunately my wife only "allows" me one corner of the garage. She "needs" her parking space apparently:mad:

[Digitalwoodshop]

Funny story about that planer.... I was living in San Diego at the time and every weekend I would look for tools at the swap meet with a used planer on top of my list.... Finally put a Delta 12 inch Table Top on lay away at a tool place. Each week I would add to the payment. The Saturday I brought it home the following Sunday Morning I go to the swap meet and what do I see but a Roll around Makita 15 inch in great condition for $700.00.... The 12 inch was $300.00..... Murphy's law of planers... Finally buy one then find one beter.....

Well I ended up getting it and didn't bring it home for a year because as you guessed it... The wife would never understand 2 planers...... I hid it out at a friends..... Here 14 years later, I now have the 2 planers plus a 3rd of my Brother's while he is away.... The Ex Wife got the house.... I got my TOOLS.... That's my story and I am sticking to it.....

AL

[911guy]

I hid it out at a friends..... Here 14 years later, I now have the 2 planers plus a 3rd of my Brother's while he is away.... The Ex Wife got the house.... I got my TOOLS.... That's my story and I am sticking to it.....

AL

Love that story. That's one for the books!

[rjustice]

Hmmmm... maybe i ought to watch the tool purchases huh??? :shock:

[Kenm810]

I,m safe, and still at the short end of that stick.
Barb bought two computer controlled sewing machines for her quilting and sewing hobbies.
An Eight Thousand and a Ten Thousand with all the do-dads and what-nots.
I thought 8,000 and 10,000 where the model numbers, nope the price.http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif
Shes done enough quilt squares to make a quilt to cover the neighborhood twice over,
plus her two bedroom and two walkin storage room fabric and material stash
would put Handcock, Minnesota, and JoAnn's fabrics inventory to shame.
When She asks me to order an add on for one of her machines
and it says something like "Modular Digitizing System - Call for price!" http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif
then I know it means trouble.

Oh well I still have a ways to go to catch up with her.http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif

[jonweis]

Jon, I have played with shellac before (not in this application) and I know it can get pretty thick. Would you apply that around the grain for the letters, then paint them, then just sand the remaining off?
911.......
If you use the Zinser product it's basically about as thin as water and paints on about the same. May experiment with the number of coats but 1 or two should do the trick and they dry almost immediately. Thins with alcohol....

[Digitalwoodshop]

Qult Racks and Quilting is big business....

AL

[Gman_Ind]

Sorry for getting back on topic but I had the bleeding issue with red oak, it is very hard to seal red oak, it is really a stack of straws.
I sealed (once) then painted. I ran it through the 18" drum sander until it looked OK.
Side note, I have a sander sitter for my Ro sanders and the crepe pad does a good job keeping the paper clog free.

[Kenm810]

For those who may not know what a "Sander Sitter" is :confused:

(Rockler wood worker store Add)
Now you don't need to turn your sander on and off each time you need to reposition your work.

While it sits, you're free to work - and your sandpaper disk gets gently cleaned by the crepe pad.
Eliminates 70% - 80% of debris from the disk.

[911guy]

911.......
If you use the Zinser product it's basically about as thin as water and paints on about the same.

Makes sense cause the funny thing is I have the Zinser sitting on my workshop shelf. I'm in the process of trying different applications. The Zinser happened to be not too good with the cedar nor select pine.

Currently trying the sanding sealer and a pre-stain. Pre-stain didn't work well as I expected it wouldn't but with all the scrap I've created, thought I'd give it a try. So far the sanding sealer seems like the best. I'm not giving up on the shellac just yet. Perhaps a different name brand and more pre-sanding w/60 grit before the application will do the trick. Trial and error........:p