Static electricity

[Robin Fellows]

Is anyone else expierencing static build up on the exhaust port dust collector? I can literally watch the chips jump off of the support deck onto the dust collector. I'm worried it is going to build up and fry some components. I remove the dust collector occassionally during carving to discharge it and I have also wiped it down with a fabric softener sheet (which seems to help for a while) but I can't seem to get rid of it. Any suggestions???
Robin

[Kenm810]

I haven't had a static electricity problem since I grounded my machine and down draft cabinet.
Other then that I have seen a few products that might help you, like anti static wipes or sprays.
This one I've used around my shop and studio.

Thier online add.

Staticide Anti-Stat
For maximum static electricity control, use Staticide on hard floors, carpeting, cabinetry, work surfaces, CRT screens, paper, glass, fabrics, plastics and other materials.

Static is caused when any two materials come in contact then separate. Friction (multiple separations) will amplify charge generation. Charges of only a hundred volts can cause equipment to malfunction. It attracts and holds dirt, bacteria and other airborne contaminants. Eliminate "glitches" with this total static control product.

This bottle contains 4oz of solution:
Easy to use - simply spray or wipe onto surface
Long lasting - prevents dust attraction
Non-toxic, non-staining, biodegradable
Germicidal, bacteriologic
Reduces field service calls
Meets military specifications for static decay.This web page URL is: www.photodon.com/antistat01.htm (http://www.photodon.com/antistat01.htm)
Call: 847-377-1185 9am to 5pm EST
Fax: 775-535-1646

Mailing address:
Photodon
2496 Potter Road E.
Traverse City, MI USA 49686-8599

[upcedar]

Robin, I had this problem in the winter when it was drier, so I got a small Humidity gauge & humidifier. When ever my gauge would hit below 50% the static caused the dust too 'stand-up'. Good Mel McDaniel hit...
Static can zap your key board also, then your looking fer a trip to Texas-ha! Best Rick

[Digitalwoodshop]

I have good luck with using the foil Dryer flex hose. It is not as "Efficient" with air flow as other methods but I ground it and no problems.

AL

[pamjmayo]

Digital Workshop: I just bought a Delta dust collector with a 4" hose and I thought I needed a reducer to hook it up to the CC. I just noticed your picture and the collector is attached to something underneath the machine. Can you tell me what you did? Thanks, Pam

[rpringle]

Pam,

It would be best to use a 4" adapter into your downdraft system.
Reducing the diamater will reduce the air flow.
Take a look at my cabnet, it may give you some ideas.

Russ

[Kenm810]

Hi Pam,

The small dust catcher at the top back of the machine draws some of the dust and chips away from the wiring and circuit boards near the top of the machine, but is not effective enough to remove the large volume of dust and chips generated by the carver and are left inside the machine to possibly causing errors and faults that interfere with the proper actions of the machine. There is however a long narrow slot in the bottom of the machine that is very efficient of drawing the chips down between the traction rollers and out to your dust collection system. Most any type of half tube, box, or chamber that can be built into or under the CW table, bench, or cabinet will direct the chips from the bottom of your maciine to your negative pressure system, be it vacuum or blower. You can do a search (key words) dust, dust control or removal, and vacuum systems. There are tons of info and diagrams on connecting your system to your machine. http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[Digitalwoodshop]

Pam,

I just cut a 4 inch hole in the bottom of the cabinet top and pop riveted and sealed with RTV a metal 90 degree connector and in this case used another to get the pipe out to hook up a hose. Like the picture above, I used sticky weather strip to seal the slot. I use primarily 12 inch boards and off setting the opening to the non keypad side will allow for better air flow.

I have a suction in the front too. On my Orphan with 260 hours on the cut motor I use 2 suction points. On my new machine I only use one suction point and get so much more dust in the machine. I need to make another top collector. I am opting for a smaller unit modeled after one someone posted using a plastic vacuum attachment.

Here is the top suction unit.

I also run a wire with 3 alligator clips on each end to ground everything to the collector.

Good Luck,

AL

[BobHill]

Pam,

Normally the large dust collectors (4" delta, 4" Jet, etc) operate not by high pressure (vacuum) but by a continuous large "flow" of air, that carries the chips/sawdust, rather than "sucks" it. Thus it's going to get the best flow by keeping it at the 4" size as much as possible right to where the dust/chips are falling. When you restrict the flow, less air will flow and the pressure won't increase on the "air" side as there is no increase of "suction" (increase in vacuum). Since the bottom of the CarveWright has it's own shaped hole, if possible you should not have anything between that and the 4" hose that's smaller in flow than that opening. I use a floor "scoop" that is made for the 4" hose and have it attached to a hole in the table top that's shaped to the hole in the CW bottom and it works great.

Bob

[PhotoProf]

Hi guys....

How do you ground your dust collection units?

Thanks!

[Digitalwoodshop]

All Dust Collectors are wired with a Ground Wire in the wiring weather it is 110 VAC or 220 VAC. I just connect my 3 ground alagator clips to the motor, switch box, and foil hose. The other end of the wire is connected to the out feed tray of the carve machine, metal cabinet that the Carve Machine is stiiting on and the Foil hose.

AL

[Kenm810]

As Al, just said with insulated or bare copper wire and gator clips you can make you own vac hose and machine grounding kit. No need to be fancy, just functional and -- it will saves head aches later on.

[PhotoProf]

Thanks for the information! Grounding for static electricity is something I've not had to deal with before so excuse my ignorance. With safety plugs on electrical devices wired to ground, it would seem that if this were the case, the metal frame of the carver would be grounded as well. Couldn't a person run a wire from the dust collection hose to the frame?

[Kenm810]

Normally that would be the case but several or possibly most of the latest CC and CW machines have come with only two prong plugs without the third grounding prong. So to avoid damage to the machine's circuitry some of the owners have run alternate grounding wires to the machines and vac systems including the hoses and metal or plastic tubings being used to help stop or at least minimize the static electric problems. If you could, do a forum search key words Static, Ground, or Grounding, also dust control, it too addresses static charge problems. The dust and chips traveling through the dust collector or vacuum systems pipes, fittings and tubing generate nearly all of the highest static charges and can cause the most damage.

[PhotoProf]

I guess search should be my first response when I have a question.... just need to get in that mode! Thanks for the suggestion. Oh... it seems like a lot of new appliances/tools only have the two prong set-up but I think they still have a ground running on one side.

[Jeff_Birt]

In order to clear up confusion about 2 vs. 3 prong plugs, take a step back and consider what the wires corresponding to these prongs (contacts) do. Commonly the three wires in a 120V circuit are referred to as 'Hot', 'Neutral', and 'Ground'. The 'Hot' and 'Neutral' wires carry current', the 'Ground' line carries no current, it's only function is safety.

If the case of a tool is connected to the ground line, then even if the hot line comes in contact with the case or the hot and neutral wires are reversed (happens all the time when folks try to wire outlets themselves), the case of the tool (the part you touch), can never have a potential above ground so you wont get shocked.

Modern tools with a two wire plug are 'double-insulated', that is they are constructed in such a way that no single failure (or reversed hot/neutral lines) can cause the case of the tool (any part you can touch) to become energized. So, your still safe from being shocked.

Now, as some of you know the ground and neutral lines are actually bonded together, and to a ground rod, in your breaker panel (in one and only one place). This does not mean they are the same, as I mentioned the ground is not a current carrying conductor.

By grounding the dust collection system your are providing an easier path for the static electricity to follow than through your machine (or you). Having a three wire plug in itself does not guarantee better static protection, that all depends on how the circuitry inside is designed.

[pamjmayo]

Russ, thanks for the pictures. I'm really mystified, how do I get the downdraft system? I can't figure out how the CC can be modified to be accessed from the bottom???????? Pam

[Lin]

Pam. There's a slot in the bottom of the CW. The stand I bought for mine had no top. I made a top from 3/4" osb and cut a slot in the center of it to match the slot on the CW. I then built a retangular box under the table top surrounding the slot...also from osb and cut a hole in one end of the box I built for my dust collection hose. I did purchase a fitting for that hole that works for table saws and attached it to the end hole of the box (downdraft) with screws to be able to hook the 4" dust collector hose up to. Not the fanciest in the world but is functional.
I used weather strippping around the top of the slot on the top of the table to seal the CW slot when I placed the machine back onto the table lining up the machines slot to the cut slot.
Lin

[pamjmayo]

Lin, Thank you so much. I can't wait to get my machine back so I can take a look. I never noticed a slot in the bottom. Live and Learn. I really appreciate the help. Pam

[rpringle]

Pam,

As Linn said there is a slot in the center bottom of the machine (probably for downdraft dust collection) the designers of this machine likely planned for it.

I wish I had taken more pictures as I assembled my unit.

Some people have used weather striping around the rectangle opening in the bottom. I used much the same idea but striping to the outer edged of the bottom so that it includes the cooling vents for the electronics.
I also left the end opposit of the air flow open so that it would create degative air pressure accross the cooling luvers. It should reduce the dust going into the electronices to near zero.
After my controller blew I opened it and it had a fair amont of dust in it even though the case is farely well sealed.

I have a few pictures which may help.

There is much discusion about static electricity and it maybe valid.
Woodworkers for many years have worried about static causing a fire within the air tubes. But to date I have read no where that a static spark has caused a fire.
There is one incedent where someone thought using a vacume caused the controller to blow, but it could have been a quidence.
I'm considering running a cable from my machine frame the ground on my plug strip so that the the ground will be common with my Delta vacume.
So far no problem with cleaning my machine after a carve. I turn off the Compucarve, leave the down draft vacume running and use a shop vacume to clean all the corners.

Now that I have my second machine and the quick release chuck works OK I know understand why so few people understood my frustration from an earlier post.

Russ

[Andy C]

You can wrap the hose with lite copper wire and ground the wire.

As to anti static solutions use diluted fabric softner in a spray bottle, been doing this for years and it works great. DO NOT SPRAY THE MACHINE!!.

See my other post about alternates to the bag. I put in the hose and grounded it as above and no more static. (Except from the wife)

Andy

[jspringertx]

Static electricity is not a major problem in Houston due to the high humidity (year round). For the bottom of my downdraft unit I used a piece of gutter that I had from a previous project. I then installed an end cap on one end and a suction hole on the other end. I mounted this to the bottom of the table that holds my unit. I use a large wet/dry vacuum and you can see the sawdust being sucked into the gutter.

Some day I will buy a dust collector, but the shop vac works for the time being.

[pamjmayo]

Hi Lin and rpringle and thank you for all the info. I understand now how you do it and I can manage the connection of the collector to the bottom of the table. What I still don't understand by looking at the pictures, the tube is horizontal and the opening is vertical. How do you get from point a to b? Sorry, I am really untechnical but I sure try hard. Pam

[Kenm810]

Hi Pam,

By placing your machine, with its slot surrounded buy weather strip tape directly over the slot in the top of your table or bench, where the open topped tube,(trough.) is attached to the under side of the table top completely surrounding the bottom of the aligned slots in the table top and machine. Then with vacuum hose attached to the end of the tube it will draw air down through the machine and table into the trough and away to your vacuum system carrying the dust and chips with it. As seen in the photos from Russ and others http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

[Andy C]

Just got around to grounding the hose from the carver to the vac.

Found picture hanging wire at Wal Mart at a $1.63 for 20 feet.

It's very light and flexible and no static build on the hose since I put it on.

Andy

[pkunk]

Just got around to grounding the hose from the carver to the vac.

Found picture hanging hose at Wal Mart at a $1.63 for 20 feet.

It's very light and flexible and no static build on the hose since I put it on.

Andy
HOSE? You mean wire. :p

[pamjmayo]

Ken, you are my superhero, answering all my questions in one evening. The pictures make it super clear for me now and I can't thank you enough. It's funny but I don't seem to learn the tech stuff without the pictures. I hope after I do this, it will turn out I have too much corian dust in my CC to work properly.
I hate to have to bother Chris again but if I don't get the darn thing working, he's going to have to put up with me AGAIN! Pam

[Kenm810]

Pam, your very welcome to any little bit help I can offer as are any of the folks out there.
I know the the Corian dust sticks to nearly every thing in the machine, including the sensors.
Wish we could do more, but I'm sure the down draft system will help you.
And I wouldn't worry to much about bothering Chris the few times I spoke to him myself,
it sounded like he and the other techs kind of enjoy helping us poor confused and bewildered lost souls. http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif

[dominulus]

I live in a small house in a big city. After the neighbors have all gone to work I tote the CW out to a backyard sawhorse table and flip the switch.

I've been using a vacuum (two-pronged wire) to collect the dust, often pausing the project to suck up dust and chips, but now, after reading several posts on the potential horrors of static electricity, I'm wondering if there might be a way to ground both the vacuum and the CW.

Would attaching copper wires to both and running those wires to a hose bib do the trick? If so, what part of the machine should I connect to the wire? What part of the vacuum? The nozzle?

Thanks,

d.

[Kenm810]

d.,

Alligator clips will work as a ground if attached to any metal part of the machine like one of the roller trays then on to the vacuum motor and finally to a hose bib, there by dissipating the static charge. But remember most of the static potential is generated by the dust and chips being sucked through the vacuums plastic or rubber hose. Some vacuums and vacuum hoses are advertised as static free, some are definitely not. There have been a few posts of success in defeating the static build up by clamping or taping a bare wire or metal foil backed tape along the vacuum hose and then clipping it to the wire running to ground, in your case the hose bib. Total cost probably less the $5.00. This way it can all be coiled up for storage when your not carving.