The automatic air blast thread...

[Jeff_Birt]

Recently I mentioned in another thread about building an automatic air blast for my CompuCarve. Some interest was expressed in the idea so I though I would start a new thread on the subject rahter than hi-jack the other thread.

First by 'air blast' I mean a SMALL stream of air that helps to clear away sawsut/shavings from the bit so that they can be better removevd by a dust collection system. There is also a side benifit of a bit of additional bit cooling. It is VERY IMORTANT, no MANDATORY that the air that is used for this be dry. I have a pretty good water sperator on the outlet of my compressor, the type that might be used for painting (it gets REALLY humid in MO). I've copied the original post below and will post updates as I work on it.



The dust it produces is VERY fine as others have said, so I am working on a down draft/air blast set up to handle that. Just scrounged up a small regulator and small 24VDC solonoid valve yesterday so I can automatically start/stop the air blast with the cut motor. I'm also thinking about making the air blast supply tubing 'leaky', as it will be affixed to the flex drive cable, I'm thinking that a few well placed pin holes around the bend where the cable get hottest, might be enough to help keep it cool.

[Dan-Woodman]

Jeff
I think your on to something here , maybe LHR will pick up on it and add to future machines .
WAY TO GO
And you right , it does get humid here.

[Kenm810]

Jeff,

I’ve been using a low pressure jet of shop air since mid January. Our shop compressor and makeup tanks have a bank of filters and air driers to keep the air free of any solid or liquid contaminants. Also all of air out lets in the building have their own additional filters, water traps, and pressure regulators. Even though I normally keep the machine in my shop I like keeping my down draft table mobile, being able to walk around it for cleaning or servicing it. So it has its own air line jack, pressure gauge, and needle valve to control the 5 to 10 lb. jet of air near the machines carving bit. I have tried a few different types of tubing - plastic, vinyl, surgical, and found that 1/8” id. Black Rubber automotive vacuum hose works the best for me. It’s light, very flexible, and most of all it offers no resistance to the Y or Z trucks while the machine is carving. The fact that it sweeps the dust and chips away from the carving bit and off the top of project being carved and down through the space between the traction belts(even on wide projects) and out the bottom of the machine. I feel this is a plus in helping to prevent some of the chip outs and keeping some of the dust and chips from getting trapped under the belts and pressure rollers. As for mounting the rubber hose alone the flex-shaft I use black electrical tape on the looped wire support, I have not had any trouble with the flex-shaft so fare and don’t want to take a chance restricting it in any way. I have not tried using any compressed air to cool the flex-shaft after seeing how much air is being pulled down around it through the top slot in the machine its self. I certainly would be interested in your findings pertaining to 24Volt DC Solenoid valve and - quote “the air blast supply tubing 'leaky', as it will be affixed to the flex drive cable, I'm thinking that a few well placed pin holes around the bend where the cable get hottest, might be enough to help keep it cool.” I’m not sure, but it sound workable to me, and would be a great asset if it solved the problems people are having with the flex-shaft over heating.

Puttering is a thinking mans therapy. ---- me

[Gman_Ind]

I really like the idea of adding in a tiny vacuum line at the source, I found myself constantly blowing air in from the top to inspect the carving and clear out the cutout channel to avoid bit problems.
Any cooling effect on the flex shaft will increase its service life.

[Jeff_Birt]

Progress has been slow, had too many other things going on this weekend. I did get my down-draft duct made. The wooden bits were cut on the machine and the sheet metal is from a 2' section of 4" stove pipe. The 4" stove pipe was nearly perfect as it had the same radius as the bottom of my duct. A 5" stove pipe might have been a bit of a better choice as it would have had enough width to allow flanges to be bent over the top of frame rather than trimming the sides fllush. It was very difficult to get the sheet metal 'stuck' to the sides with screws and silicone.

I did test my regulator/solonoid set up and found that while it only draws 70mA in steady state, it has a surge current of 1.75A. Therefor, I decided against trying to tap into the machines power supply and found a small open frame 24V power supply to use for testing. I also scrounged up a magnetic reed switch which I plan to wrap with about 20 turns of 14-16 guage wire (whatever size the cut motor uses) and add matching connectors, placing it in series with the cut motor. When the cut motor is active the current flowing through the 20 turns of wire will produce a small magnetic field and pull in the read switch; simple, robust and effective. I did realize that the cut motor shuts off briefly between each hole drilled or vector path carving so I will need to add a bit of turn off time delay so the air blast is not constanly tuenign on and off.

[cajunpen]

Jeff - Let me preface this post with a comment. I know that you and the others on your Thread are discussing adapting your machines and what you do with your machine is certainly none of my business. My comments are asking your and the others opinion on the real necessity all of that elaborate DC connections for the casual user.

All of the air adapters and down draft hookups are very ingenious. Unfortunately most of us out here have no idea how to go about setting up all of that. I do not mean this in a negative way, and am certainly not taking a shot at anyone's creativity and ingenuity- but do you think that we (the average CW user) really need all of that? I use the machine only casually, for hobby projects. I typically blow out the dust and vacuum what I can, after each use. If all of that DC is really necessary - I think LHR fell short on the design.

As I said, please don't read anything negative in this post - it is an honest question about the necessity. If you guys use the machines commercially and need all of the extra DC removal, more power to you I understand that it will only help your machines in the long run.

[Kenm810]

Cajunpen,

If I may answer at least for myself, your comments are all valid and I do not take them in a negative way in the least. So far I have not modified my machine its self in any way. Pulse I don’t what anyone to think they should or have to change them in anyway, mine works fine with out all the bells and whistles I’ve added to my machine. As for the extra vents, lights, and air I have added to mine, it’s just in my nature to tinker with any thing I own.
Over 60 years ago and my father gave me a small wooden tool box he had made, with a small hammer, saw and screw driver in it. (My mother said they couldn’t find the door knobs and cabinet latches for days) Please understand most of the tinkering we do is for our own applications of the machine, and if it works, good or bad I try to share or pass what I’ve learned and the information it generates on to who ever can use it.

[DocWheeler]

Bill,

I am surprised that your post has gone unanswered so long – I will offer my thoughts. (But as I was writing this another Ken has responded).
Some background: I am an ex-carpenter (high school), ex-ironworker (until injured), and am now looking into things that I want to do when I retire next year.
I have always had a workshop, but never had it properly ventilated (or big enough). Dust collection was always thought of as too expensive or unnecessary (oh the stupidity of youth). In all of those years I never had a table saw – I had a radial-arm saw and a couple of powered handsaws.
Dust removal for most hand tools can be accomplished by simply blowing (so you can see the line etc.). Some tools like the radial-arm saw have deflectors for some dust but advise the user to use a separate collection system behind the saw.
Just this weekend I bought my first table saw because the radial-arm one is not easy to use on small pieces with only one hand. I found that when it is set on sawhorses that dust is thrown out the bottom – now what do I do when I build a stand for it? The dust will accumulate within the saw itself if I don’t create an outlet of some kind.
As for the CarveWright machine, Like my radial-arm machine, there is an “exit port” and an air blower that blows across the carving pushing dust away from the keypad side. Most of the time (at least on smaller carvings) this is adequate to keep the dust from accumulating between the carving and the rubber rollers.
Using a vacuum cleaner to manually clean the dust (while pausing the carve) seemed to cause a static discharge problem that I personally wanted to avoid, and too much blowing into the carving region sends dust into areas where it can cause problems.
It is my belief that the machine could use help in clearing dust off of the carving just in front of the roller, and that air being pulled down through the slot in the bottom aids the blowing that CarveWright built into the machine. Since I'm comfortable with creating things with wood and metal, I built it as I did. I also wanted to see if I could get the dust to "drop out" of the air stream by steadily increasing the size of the duct as it went along and keep it away from the filter (pretty good success).

I think it is more a matter of where should a manufacturer stop when creating the equipment. They could have done more and they could have done less. My radial-arm saw makes a huge mess behind it and none of my small electric saws have a blower to help me see what I’m cutting.

Ken

[rjustice]

I agree with Ken. In fact I have had the urge to make a machine mod or 2, but fell short of doing it because I dont know whether it will void warranty etc. by cutting away at sheet metal, plastic, or tapping into wiring...

Dust collection - I feel that the dust collection is an investment of your time and health. I have spent seconds cleaning after a carving compared to several minutes to do so. The other thing is that the dust is ending up in places that will no doubt anoy you and the machine. My garage was covered in a fine dust after about 10 hours... I didnt notice it as it was going, but eventually i realized, "man, I have a heck of a mess to clean up"... as far as the machine goes, it will eventually get dust packed up in places that it shouldn't, and cause a machine to malfunction in one way or another. I personally had a couple Y axis stalls, and my bit plate would get stubborn and not want to flip out properly. I havent had either issue since i went to the downdraft method. Now, I am not saying you can't get the same results with a thorough cleaning after every project, because you can. I did myself.... It was just a lot more messing around with it. I have posted several times "A clean machine is a happy machine". And while i probably should have put this first, there is your Health. I think it was Ken that posted about the materials that are in MDF. It is a fairly serious health risk to breathe the dust from this stuff. I got a serious headache after carving it 3 or 4 times. I didnt put two and two together till it was being discussed here. It is a known side effect. Anyway, if you are carving it you should use a dust mask.

Air - I think the air goes hand in hand with the DC.. if you are going to do one, the other makes a lot more sense. I like the little stream of air on the cutting tip to keep the chips from packing in the cutting flutes on small delicate tools like i have been selling. The other thing is that by stirring up the dust a little as it cuts, you dont end up with any settling on the top of the workpiece, which gets pinched in the feed rollers, sometimes causing a little variation in the finish on the bottom of flat surfaces that are noticable.

I must admit i am a litte more anal about stuff like this than most, and like Ken was saying, I also tinker, and try to improve on things, so it is just second nature for me to do so. I am sure you can, and will get a bunch of nice looking projects out of your machine without the "options".. it just makes it a little easier with them.

Hope this helps,

Happy carving !

Ron

[Jeff_Birt]

Bill, I think you have very logical questions. Is all this fancy DC stuff needed? Well, you could get along with out it. You workshop and lungs will be much cleaner with it. I posted a link (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Index.cfm) about shop air saefty the other day, why some of the egregious consequences of breating in the slightest amount of saw dust (as presented in the above link) needs to taken with a grain of salt, the general premise is true. I added a REAL simple dust collection port (bathtub shoe) to my 40 year old Craftsman table saw a couple of years ago, that i hook my little shop vac to, it does not get everything but keep most of teh fine dust out of the air.

The down draft set up is simple, there is a slot in the bottom of the machine. Pull your machine off it's stand. Cut a slot in your stand to match, apply some 3/4" foam weather stripping around it for a good seal, and put the machine back on the stand. Then all you need is some sort of duct to mount under this slot that will hook to your Shop-Vac or DC system (that is the duct I talk about a few posts up). Any DC or Shop-Vac can have static discharge problems, it's important to make suer that your equipment is static safe. Newer hoses and such are made to disipate a static charge. I also, by habbit, touch the metal fram of the machine while vacuuming it out, adn keep the machine plugged it (from years go when I was a copier repair tech), this bleeds of any static charge from the hose/your body through the machine frame. I made the bottom of my duct out of metal as it will allow a ground strap to be hooked to it.

The air blast is a common method, industrially of removing chips from the area of the cutting tool which both allow it do do a better job of cutting and provides a bit of cooling effect for the bit. Depending on what you are cutting, it may really help out, but is of little use without first having the downdraft in place. Now, you don't need a fancy automatic control to turn it on/off with the cut motor. I would like to build one as it is A) convienant and B) it is what I do (electronics, industrial automation guy).

[rjustice]

Progress has been slow, had too many other things going on this weekend. I did get my down-draft duct made. The wooden bits were cut on the machine and the sheet metal is from a 2' section of 4" stove pipe. The 4" stove pipe was nearly perfect as it had the same radius as the bottom of my duct. A 5" stove pipe might have been a bit of a better choice as it would have had enough width to allow flanges to be bent over the top of frame rather than trimming the sides fllush. It was very difficult to get the sheet metal 'stuck' to the sides with screws and silicone.

I did test my regulator/solonoid set up and found that while it only draws 70mA in steady state, it has a surge current of 1.75A. Therefor, I decided against trying to tap into the machines power supply and found a small open frame 24V power supply to use for testing. I also scrounged up a magnetic reed switch which I plan to wrap with about 20 turns of 14-16 guage wire (whatever size the cut motor uses) and add matching connectors, placing it in series with the cut motor. When the cut motor is active the current flowing through the 20 turns of wire will produce a small magnetic field and pull in the read switch; simple, robust and effective. I did realize that the cut motor shuts off briefly between each hole drilled or vector path carving so I will need to add a bit of turn off time delay so the air blast is not constanly tuenign on and off.


Jeff,
Nice approach on the downdraft duct. Port this baby into a cyclone, and you have one heck of a nice system, with very little maintenece!..
Also, your idea on wrapping a reed switch is very cool.... I had never thought about using one that way. I have a bunch of them, and will have to experiment with that thinking. Do you have any idea what the smaller 1/8 diameter about 3/4 long contacts would be current rated for?... think they would power the solenoid, or have to go through another relay?

Ron

[Jeff_Birt]

Most of the reed switches I was able to find in catalogs, like Digikey, are rated between 0.25 and 0.5 A (switching current), 0.5-1.5A (carring current); enough for the steady state current but might be a problem in switching due to the inrush current to the solonoid. Due to the short off/on cycles of the cut motor an off dealy is needed so I will have the reed switch trigger a 1-shot circuit with a 5 second (or so) turn off, this circuit will trigger a relay that will be used for the solonoid and maybe even to kick on the Shop-Vac itself.

[cajunpen]

Bill, I think you have very logical questions. Is all this fancy DC stuff needed?
The down draft set up is simple, there is a slot in the bottom of the machine. Pull your machine off it's stand. Cut a slot in your stand to match, apply some 3/4" foam weather stripping around it for a good seal, and put the machine back on the stand. Then all you need is some sort of duct to mount under this slot that will hook to your Shop-Vac or DC system (that is the duct I talk about a few posts up). Any DC or Shop-Vac can have static discharge problems, it's important to make suer that your equipment is static safe. Newer hoses and such are made to disipate a static charge. I also, by habbit, touch the metal fram of the machine while vacuuming it out, adn keep the machine plugged it (from years go when I was a copier repair tech), this bleeds of any static charge from the hose/your body through the machine frame. I made the bottom of my duct out of metal as it will allow a ground strap to be hooked to it.

The air blast is a common method, industrially of removing chips from the area of the cutting tool which both allow it do do a better job of cutting and provides a bit of cooling effect for the bit. Depending on what you are cutting, it may really help out, but is of little use without first having the downdraft in place. Now, you don't need a fancy automatic control to turn it on/off with the cut motor. I would like to build one as it is A) convienant and B) it is what I do (electronics, industrial automation guy).

Thank you all Ken, Ken, Ron & Jeff. Everything you guys are doing with this Thread makes more sense to me now, and I am jumping on board with your theory, at least as much as I am capable of:). I do understand breathing all of the dust is not good. I have a DC system in my shop, as well as an Overhead Jet Air Filtration System AND I often wear my Airsheld when sanding,etc. So I am probably a little overcautious at times.

Having said all of that, my CW stays in my Sunroom and I roll it out onto my covered patio to use it - so I'm not standing there in a confined area breathing the dust. I usually start a project and go do something else while it carves. You all have opened my eyes to the potential problem of dust build-up in the machine though, and I suppose I need to address that issue, at least with downdraft. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me - and anybody else following this Thread.

[Jeff_Birt]

Well, I had my first chance to test the new downdraft duct tonight (without air blast). I had deep carving on a 6.5" x 18" MDF board. I started the machine, turned on my old 2 HP shop vac and watched. It looked like it was going well and I tried a bit of air manually fron my air gun (and pressure turned down), just a bit of air picks up the sawdust from the area being carved and then it gets sucked down the downdraft, very cool.

I came back in the house and let it carve for 20 minutes or so with just the downdraft running and checked again. While the machine was not clean inside with just the downdraft the amount of build up was greatly reduced. I was looking forward to snapping some pictures of the amount of total build after after it was done.

I went down as it was finishing up and caught the scent of burnt electrical equipment. My ears perked up, I could hear the CW but not the shop vac. It seems my old shop vac just couldn't take it (heck it was free) and the motor burnt up. :mad:

So the consensus is, the downdraft duct works, and seems to work very well even with a limited vacuum source. I think this is due to the striaght through design, rounded bottom and the fact that it draws from the rear of the machine.

I guess that I will now 'have' to go DC shopping.....oh, well I guess I'll have time to get the air blast plumbed now.

[Dan-Woodman]

Did I see somewhere in here it said not to use a shop vac because of static but to use a dust collector thats grounded?

[Jeff_Birt]

Either one can/will generate static electricity. Most good systems of either type have static dissipative hoses/ductwork. Older systems may not.

[Jeff_Birt]

After a few hours of failed attempts last evening I was finally able to make some more progress on the air blast system tonight. I removed the Y and Z flags from the machine as they are no longer used and it made it easier to route the air blast tube. The air blast tube was fashioned from a small piece of 1/8" copper tubing. The mounting tabs were made from a 1/2" coper pipe strap and soldered to the tube. I used a piece of #12 copper wire to make a template for the shape of the tube and then bent the tubing to match. Notice that the home sensor make a good tubing guide!

1/4" rubber tubing was used to supply air to the tube and a 3/4" piece of 1/8" plastic tubing was slipped over the end of the copper blast tube. The 1/4" rubber supply tube slips right over this and makes a air tight seal (for the pressures that will be used) that can easily be removed when the flex shaft is removed. A quick test showed that #5-#10 of pressure is all that is needed to get enough air flow at the bit.

I attached a photo of the blast tube here, one of the downdraft duct installed and one of my microwave cart recycled into a machine cart. I added some more and higher quality pictures in my gallery at allcw.com as the file size is limited here.

http://www.allcw.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=429

[Jeff_Birt]

Well, it does (see title above) :p . But that's a good thing! I picked up a 2hp Grizzly G1029 dust collection unit yesterday and got it put in today. I read many reviews of diffrent DC systems and looked at several yesterday. I choose the Grizzly as it offerd the biggest bang for the buck: 2.5 micron filter bag, free pre-seperator (trash can seperator), 2 HP motor, 1600 CFM and static pressure of 11", for $279 ($20 off). It is largish for my 1 car garage/workshop but it will probably last me forever.

So, I got the DC installed, I'm still a bit mystified at why I can't seem to find static disipative plastic flexible hoses. Everything you read says to run a copper wire inside the duct! (which I did) It seems rather a hokey solution to me as we used to have static safe hoses for our little service vacs when I worked on copiers.

I did a 2hr long carving in MDF with both the DC and air-blast running. It was amazing, watching as 95% of the sawdust got sucked right out of the machine. The air-blast did a great job with #5 of air; it kept the saw dust clear of the area being carved and kept the bit room temperature! The air was directed a little to the right of machine, which I think helped to blow some saw dust into the already carved area. I'll have to play with the aim to see what works best. I've added a few pictures below. More pictures (and better quality) are in my gallery http://www.allcw.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=450

[Dan-Woodman]

Jeff
Thats the same dust collector I got 20 years ago, still running strong.
You won't be disapointed in it .

[Kenm810]

Way to go Jeff,

I just saw your photos on the other site and ran back here to say well done. A little Air and lot of Suction. We'll lick these dust and chip problems yet. I switched my air jet tube around a little more to led control panel side, blowing air at the bit from the left front of the Z truck. must of my projects are less then 14" wide leaving part of the slot between the traction belts clear to suck most of the dust down and out of the machine when the air jet clears it out of the carved area, it helped to prevent the dust and chips from accumulating on the front porch under the clear shield of the machine.http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

[rpringle]

Jeff,

If I am correctly reading your note.
You removed the metal piece which is stationary on the cutting bit assembly and then routed your blower tube through the prevous sensors, as a guide/
and a support for the tube.
And you say this is OK because the machine no longer uses these X and Z sensors.

It is obviously a good route for the tube.

Does anyone/everyone agree that removing theese sensors will not cause a problem?

Jeff can you conferm that this removal is OK!

Thanks,
Russ

[Jeff_Birt]

Russ,

Starting with firmware version 1.119 (1.120 is the latest) the home sensor (black slotted plastic thing on head) is no longer used. The two homing flags, the one on the Z-truck and the one mounted to the front (keypad) inside of the machine can be removed.

I wound up moving the air-blast tube out of the home sensor slot, to slightly in front of it slightly angled back towards the bit. This helps keep down some of the build up on the shelf under the top cover.

[BobHill]

Jeff,

I haven't turned my new machine (replacement for the Beta) on yet, but I've just finished my new holding cabinet (BenchDog) with dust collector connector (photos soon), but have you tried perhaps to try to put a foam board or something similar at an angle on that platform to where the cover comes down, thus eliminating that shelf?

I think I might try that with some masking tape to see if that'll take care of that problem if the collector air flow doesn't work by itself. I've got the large Jet Dust Dog 4" collector (1½hp) with a large sealed bottom scoop to the machine.

Will I also need additional compressed top air to get the sawdust to move?

Bob

[Jeff_Birt]

Bob, adding a slope to the shelf is a good idea, there are even a couple of small tapped holes on it that could be used. The slope would hopefully allow the sawdust to slide back off.

I think the air blast is an integral part of the down draft. The airflow moves the sawdust out of the carved area and back to the open part of the slot where they get sucked down the slot. This helps to prevent the build up under the rollers which can allow the board to slip when doing vector cuts. It also keeps the bit cool, my bit stays room temperature even after three hours of carving.

[BobHill]

Thanks Jeff,

What are you using to create the additional air blast? I've got a large tank compressor, plus a smaller one as well as an air brush compressor. The tanks types can go to 150psi which I would think would be overkill, but the air brush can go to something like 25psi to 45psi. Plastic tubing? I've seen the Z truck photo, but how do you connect it without it being too bulky and getting in the way of bit removal or being "Rube Goldberg" ish?

Bob

[Jeff_Birt]

Bob, there are more pictures of the set up here:

http://www.allcw.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=429

I use a small regulator set to #7, it feed from my shop air compressor.

[Kenm810]

Well I’ve tried a few of the suggestions that you’ve all posted in this thread.
As you probably know I like to tinker with any thing mechanical and that I already put a set of lights inside the clear front cover, plus a low pressure air jet on the carving head, and yes it dose a very nice job of clearing the wood chips and dust off the top of the project board and away from the carving Bit. What I did recently add was a tunable audio relay switch (that I had from my days working on alarm systems) that turns on the down draft blower and the solenoid that controls the air jet when ever it picks up the sound of the cut motor starting or running , then shuts them off when the motor stops. I put a bypass switch in parallel with the audio switch so I can turn the blower on manually while I’m cleaning the machine. The suggestion I really liked was the wire less remote color X10 TV camera in side the cover. One of the cameras I have is equipped with an audio pickup as well. I plugged the receiver into one of the auxiliary inputs in our cable system. Now I watch the carving head and listen to the cut motor on the television using the picture in picture feature, (but you should see the Bit carving on the 54” wide screen, WOW) The main worry about putting a TV camera inside the cover, was how the machines own vibration would effect the live video. After several different mechanical mounting attempts, I found that good old hot glue held the camera rock solid and did the trick, that way as the machine rocks and rolls so does the camera. The only big problem I’m having is the limited zoom of the lens, being that the camera is inside the cover and so close to the action that I can’t zoom out far enough to get the big picture of what happening in there. – Just speculating now, maybe a close cover by pass switch and mount the camera out side the machine, viewing form a little greater distance with the clear cover open. I’ll post some photos when I get my machine back from Texas and they get the attachments working again. http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif

ps. I also use the pip on my pc while I'm viewing the forum.

[BobHill]

Jeff,

I'd guess I can handle the 7psi blast OK. Are you finding any problems with extra drag with the tube connected to the cable extension? Also how about when the cable gets hot before you notice it? Any damage to the tube?

Bob

[Kenm810]

Bob if I may answer with an earlier quote -- I have tried a few different types of tubing - plastic, vinyl, surgical, and found that 1/8” id. Black Rubber automotive vacuum hose works the best for me. It’s light, very flexible, and most of all it offers no resistance to the Y or Z trucks while the machine is carving. The tubing is limp as a noodle and designed to work around engines in a hi temp. environment. and is available at any auto supply or service garage for less then a buck a foot.

[Jeff_Birt]

I'm using 1/4" clear rubber tubing that is very flexible. I have it taped, with electrical tape, to the flex shaft and there is no problem of additional drag. The additional drag resultant from the tubing is negligable compared to teh flex shaft itself. You need to have a tubing that will flex easily as when the Y-truck moves the tubing needs to twist to avoid binding (the flex shaft cover rotates in the head as the Y-truck moves). I also used a slip fit onto the copper air-blast tube, that is both easy to remove and allows some rotation.

[BobHill]

Time to find some copper tubing and flex tubing around here, then, Jeff.

Bob

[Kenm810]

Bob,
Most Hobby shops and some hardware store have 12" and 18" lengths of brass or copper tubing,
and the same for the flex tubing.They use it for model fuel lines and aquariums filters and bubblers.
It's the same tubing I use to soak the flex-shaft with moly in.

[Jeff_Birt]

Bob, you want 1/8" SOFT copper, the type that comes in coils and is used for refrigeration. The hobby shop is another place to look, as Ken said (except for our crappy hobby shop here). If you get hard copper or brass you'll have to aneal it before trying to bend it. I bought 3' at my local farm&home supply store.

Use a piece of #12 solid copper wire to make a pattern for your air-blast tube first. Then bend the tubing to match the wire.

[BobHill]

Being the holiday, I doubt many stores are open even here in the Tampa Bay area for copper tubing and such which is why I have to look around my shop. I'm sure I have something that will work at least temporarily, though.

Bob

[Kenm810]

Just another thought, the first time I tried to make one I didn’t have any tubing so I use a hot air gun to heat and strip the green insulation off of a 2ft. piece of #2 ground wire for my tubing. And because everyone was talking about static electricity at the time I used a hollow plastic swizzle stick and shaped it with the heat gun too. That and little black vinyl electricians tape, it worked all one weekend till I sure it would do what I wanted.The following Monday I picked up the tubing and brass that I use now.
By the way aluminum tubing also works fine no annealing needed. -- MacGyver ha http://www.carvewright.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

[BobHill]

Good thought on the aluminum tubing, Ken. I know I have a bunch of that, even in 1/4" size or smaller. I'd guess I also have some tubing around, although I doubt it's rubber. More likely plastic. Something I know I have, but can't use is electronic heat shrink tubing. Not a good idea for that one :rolleyes:

Bob

[zeke]

Jeff, I am following your lead with the air blast. Can I ask you a couple of questions? First one, I am having trouble removing the screws on the black flag (not sure if that is the y or z flag). The screws are on the back side of the Y / Z truck assembly and I can tell I am starting to strip one of them trying to get it off. Should I remove the top cover to get at them or take the truck assembly off? How did you remove the screws?

It would seem that taking the truck assembly off might be the easiest except for the ribbon cable. I can't tell how to remove the cable and how difficult that would be, have you done this before, how difficult is it?

Looks like two screws that secure either the bottom or top roller bearings could be taken off and the whole truck assembly would come off. It would be allot easier for me to do a quality and accurate job soldering the copper straps to the tubing if I had the truck assembly removed and set on a work bench. Your thoughts?

Do you know if there is a truck assembly removal procedure available?

Another question, what would happen if I accidentally bent the home sensor when threading through it? It looks flexible, is there some sort of calibration with this sensor where if it were bent it would affect the machine?

[Jeff_Birt]

I would NOT recommend removing the truck. While taking the truck off is not rocket science it is rather involved with many things that could go wrong. You can get to the screws to remove the flag by removing the top cover. You also do not want to try using the truck as a soldering jig. I used a piece of #10 copper wire to find the proper shape for the tubing and then bent the tubing to match the wire. Then with the tubing held in place on the Z-truck I marked the location of the tabs and soldered on one at a time on the bench, checking for proper fit after each one.

I've been looking for a large fish tank pump lately. If one can be found with enough volume (the pressure requires is less than 10 psi) it would be ideal as they are designed to run non-stop for years. Turning the pump on and off (automatically) would be less troublesome than needing the 24V power supply, solenoid valve and regulator.

[zeke]

Thanks Jeff, I partially removed the top cover enough to give me some room to put a screwdriver in there and apply some torque to get those screws off. I wish CarveWright would use more bolts than screws particularly with as much tinkering that is needed or wanted, screws tend to strip easily.

I'll take your advice on the soldering procedure tomorrow rather than taking the truck assembly off.

After further review, it looks like the Z-truck assembly is only 4 screws to remove. Have you ever removed just the Z-truck assembly, is it that simple?

Another question, what would happen if I accidentally bent the home sensor when threading through it? It looks flexible, is there some sort of calibration with this sensor where if it were bent it would affect the machine?

[zeke]

One more question that just came up. I thought soldering copper would be fairly simple with a soldering gun, but the solder won't adhere. Could someone explain how I can solder copper strapping to copper tubing inexpensively? Thanks.

[DocWheeler]

Zeke,

Clean the contacting surfaces with sandpaper/emery cloth and use resin-core solder.

[Jeff_Birt]

You need to be able to get the copper hot enough. Unless you have a really big soldering gun, a propane torch would be your best bet. Go get yourself some paste flux and acid core solder (the type used for plumbing) and as Doc says scuff and clean both surfaces.

As for the trucks. They have four bearings, two are on fixed (concentric) axles and two are eccentric (adjustable) axles. The adjustable ones have to be set properly to remove any free play without being so tight that they bind. There is also the issue of the wiring to deal with.

Like I said it's not impossible to work on, but it would be really easy to screw things up if you are not careful.

[zeke]

That should do it for the air blast, thanks for all the great feedback.

One more off-question on the 3/8" bit. Have you tried using it for cutting? What were your results?

The reason why I am asking is that the 1/8" bit does not produce as quality a cut as the 3/8" bit. If I could use the 3/8" bit for cutting, it would cut down on allot of manual labor sanding after the 1/8" cut.

[karossii]

I was just referred to this thread from a question I asked about downdraft systems; I think you all have some great ideas here, and I really can't wait to get my carvewright so I can tinker with it... but one big question has come up in my mind . . . why not use the flexible tubing (automotive, fish tank, etc.) all the way?

I understand some of the benefits of the copper/aluminum tubing near the bit, but wouldn't it be much simpler and almost just as effective to route one single length of flexible tubing all the way from the compressor to the bit? Especially with the automotive tubing, as heat wouldn't be an issue. I also don't think that there would be too much risk of the tubing being pinched shut, if it is routed around the truck in a similar way as your metal tubes... and perhaps simpler to attach (and therefor simpler to remove/replace if needed).

Just curious.

[FINGERS]

I have a downdraft system on machine and it works great its not a big one only a 1.5 HP good size and portable I can use it on the carver and on my sanding table I made the chute for downdraft out of some corner molding I think I have under $150.00 in the downdraft system,I posted some picturns if you do a search you can see the chute.
Happy Carving
Mike

[Dan-Woodman]

Karossii
I use a 1/4" clear plastic tube from the muffler to the cutterhead all one piece,works pretty well. I just drilled a little smaller hole in the smallest part of the muffler at an angle and pushed the tubeing in and followed the flex shaft tying it with cable ties loosely and useing another type of cable tie on the truck where the bolt hole is on the side.
later Daniel

[Kenm810]

Over the last couple of years I’ve made several air jets or air blast units that attach to the carving head of the machine. The air sweep that I’ve been using for the last several months, like the others is made of 1/8” brass tubing, and needs only one screw to mount (takes about 30 seconds) plus it holds its shape and position directed at the Bit tip at all times. The lower end is slightly flattened to add a little sweeping action as the carving head moves along the “y” and “Z” axis’s clearing the chips and dust out of the carving and off the surface of the project board. The automotive tubing I use can be slipped off the top of the brass unit if needed, leaving the brass air sweep locked in place so it doesn’t have to be realigned or adjusted. I’m sure other folks have come up with their own ideas for the same thing. This one just happens to work well for me.

[geekviking]

What size is the screw you used to attach the brass tube to the z truck? I notice the hole is already tapped...

[Kenm810]

The Screw I use are Phillips 5-44N.F. 1/4" long
and fit fine into the pre-tapped hole in the Carving Head

[autobodyman]

Looking at your pictures you've removed some parts, I tried to do this without removing them but I don't think it's going to work because looks like mine's going to hit. Is it okay to take off that, whatever it is, parking switch?
http://www.PhotoShare.co.nz/PhotoShareGallery1/100503/108025/blower17249_M.jpg

http://www.PhotoShare.co.nz/PhotoShareGallery1/100503/108025/blower26065_M.jpg
I also couldn't find any 1/8" brass or copper locally so I wound up using steel brake line tubing. Thanks ~Mike

[Digitalwoodshop]

Parking switch and the metal fin are no longer used. You can remove the fin.

AL

[autobodyman]

When you say no longer used, do you mean the newer software versions? What version do I need to have to remove it? I'm running 1.126

Also, how do I get the switch disconected, do I have to remove the truck?

Sorry if this is a dumb question.
Thanks ~Mike

[mtylerfl]

When you say no longer used, do you mean the newer software versions? What version do I need to have to remove it? I'm running 1.126

Also, how do I get the switch disconected, do I have to remove the truck?

Sorry if this is a dumb question.
Thanks ~Mike

Hi Mike,

I believe it was way back in version 1.119 that those items were rendered obsolete.

[Digitalwoodshop]

To remove the innards of the Z Truck you need to remove the Z Truck. It won't do any harm leaving them. The black optic on the Z Truck breaks off easy and is the most photographed part in the "What is IT?" Posted Question.

AL

[Steven Alford]

Karossii
I use a 1/4" clear plastic tube from the muffler to the cutterhead all one piece,works pretty well. I just drilled a little smaller hole in the smallest part of the muffler at an angle and pushed the tubeing in and followed the flex shaft tying it with cable ties loosely and useing another type of cable tie on the truck where the bolt hole is on the side.
later Daniel

Dan,
Do you have any pictures of how you connected to the muffler??

[Kenm810]

Hi Steven,

This might be what your looking for :wink:

unitedcases Air Tubing pictures (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=10104&highlight=tubing)

[Digitalwoodshop]

That is a good idea. I was thinking of doing the same but use a plastic see thought Gas Filter in line to collect the fine dust before shooting it out. With my upper dust collector, that will blow the dust right into the vacuum collector.

AL

[autobodyman]

Thanks Al & Michael, the switch came right off without to much fuss. One more question if you don't mind, I wasn't sure how high up to cut off my blower tube. It's about 1-1/8 inches above the point of the carving bit. Is that high enough up to not be an issue or should I cut it off shorter? The air seems to blow in the correct place now but I don't want to damage the machine.
http://www.PhotoShare.co.nz/PhotoShareGallery1/100503/108025/blower36865.jpg
Thanks again. ~Mike

[chebytrk]

That is a good idea. I was thinking of doing the same but use a plastic see thought Gas Filter in line to collect the fine dust before shooting it out. With my upper dust collector, that will blow the dust right into the vacuum collector.

AL

Was there ever a thread with pics of your Upper Dust Collector?

[fwharris]

Jerry,

Did a search "dust collector" and finally found Al's pictures..

http://forum.carvewright.com/showpost.php?p=78477&postcount=10

[roughcut]

Has anyone experimented by extending the chute on the keyboard side of the machine looks like if it was extended down towards the board it would blow the dust towards the opposit side of the machine and the dust collector would pull away more of it.:)

[fwharris]

Bill,

I did a feeble attempt at it a couple of months ago. I had some thin wall 1/2" plastic tube (drip tube) that I taped the air deflector on to. Worked ok but I had a hard time holding it in place on the bottom end. Also go a fatal error when the head was homing in on the key board side. I still had the old homing sensor brackets on the z truck and they were hitting the tube. I gave up the test so I could finish the carving is was doing. Deleted what was carved, re saved and continued on. ;)

I would be a good option but a different shape of deflector would be needed to better direct the air across the board.
Seems like there was also an issue with getting the tubing down the side with out being in the way of the z truck, but that might have been caused by the homing brackets.

Will have to check that out again since I don't have the brackets on any more!

Best bet might still be the Kenm810 air push set up! More direct air at the cutting source.

[roughcut]

What is the purpose of the way CW has it designed? It seems like a pretty elaborate ducting system to have it just blowing in side and that high.:)

[PCW]

Bill

I believe that the designers are trying to create a Vortex effect for electronics cooling purposes. If that air was not moving in the machines electronics they would over heat in no time. Dust collector/exhaust filter is just to filter out any dust that gets caught up in the air stream.

[Digitalwoodshop]

The Cut Motor has 2 sides to the fan. One side sucks from the Brush area through the machine. The other has a duct going down to the Electronic area to suck air thought that area cooling the computer.

I posted pictures of the cut motor that show the 2 sides of the cooling fan.

This is the way I collect dust.

That Last Picture with the hole might have been a dust collection fan or cooling fan?????

AL

[Jeff_Birt]

The small duct that runs up front and blows towards the back is to keep the board tracking sensor area clear. Not only is it important to keep sawdust from building up on the tracking roller but the bit also touches down in that area so you don't want sawdust build up there.

[jorram]

How do you do a search for the pictures?
Im new to this.

[cnsranch]

Welcome, jorram

toward the top right of your screen, you'll see page numbers - simply go to the last page of this thread, and look over the entire thread, page by page.

You can also go to the main page of the forum, and click on the little paper clip that's associated with this thread - it will then show you all the attachments that have been posted to it.